[Signing] Stajan signs 4yrs $3.125Mil AAV contract extension (limited NTC)

[moon]

I am not sure any of the centers we are getting are Crosby, Malkin, Toews level.

I don't think there is anything wrong with having young centers in the lien-up but banking on that now when there are a ton of variables that could easily not have us any of them seems to be pretty short sighted.

Yes I disagree about Backlund but tired of having that argument again and again. He could be an okay option as a 3rd line guy but if your top centers are two young guys and Backlund it seems unlikely a FO is going to be won by the Flames.

I said originally that I wanted a 3 year deal and that a 4th year would be disappointing but that is it disappointing. The deal is reasonable enough and the cap going up that they can easily still fit him in or trade him if everything goes right for the team and they don't need him in 2-3 years time.

In 2 years time Stajan is still likely the best option as a 3rd line guy to play tough minutes and take defensive zone draws while the top two guys are freed up.

[Canada 02]

iirc, the average NHL salary this season is about $2.7M; with the cap going up about 10% next season, the average player will likely be around $3M, and $3.5M the following year

the measuring stick needs to be re-calibrated

[Fire]

In 3 years time we can trade Stajan to the Oilers to help them out in their next rebuild.

[J epworth]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Backlund would be 26/27 at that time and is very capable defensively and perfect in a 3rd line role (though I know you disagree) and much better than Stajan in that regard.

How old were Crosby and Malkin when they won the Cup? Was Toews not the 1st line centre for Chicago when they won their 1st Cup?

Young players take the reins all the time in the NHL. It's the only way to win it seems nowadays. There's nothing wrong with having a 21 and 20 year old composing your top 2 centres, especially when they are top picks and have proven their capabilities. Not to mention Backlund is more than capable of moving anywhere in the lineup.

And then you have Reinhart who has played very well this season who can play both centre and wing.

Really, I just see Stajan as pointless in 2 years. This isn't a team that will be competing for the Cup at that time, but you have to prepare your young players. If they aren't ready or are overwhelmed, move Backlund up for a while.

The Blackhawks the first few years Toews was in the line-up employed veteran centres such as Lang, John Madden, who were in no way offensive forces anymore but still played tougher minutes and made it easier for their young players to thrive. Penguins did have young centres, but filled their lower half of their roster with guys like Recchi, LeClair, Roberts, to play those tough minutes and let Malkin and Crosby flourish. You need veteran players, and right now Stajan is the most veteran player on our squad. Obviously he won't be the only veteran, but looking at the free agents we could get this summer, who would seriously be better for the same price for the next few years?

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by J epworth kendal

The Blackhawks the first few years Toews was in the line-up employed veteran centres such as Lang, John Madden, who were in no way offensive forces anymore but still played tougher minutes and made it easier for their young players to thrive. Penguins did have young centres, but filled their lower half of their roster with guys like Recchi, LeClair, Roberts, to play those tough minutes and let Malkin and Crosby flourish. You need veteran players, and right now Stajan is the most veteran player on our squad. Obviously he won't be the only veteran, but looking at the free agents we could get this summer, who would seriously be better for the same price for the next few years?

Lang and Madden only played one season each for Chicago. Lang was still a decent scorer and Madden was a former Selke winner and two-time Cup Champion. Available veterans on one-year deals to aid young players.

Recchi, Leclair, Palffy and Roberts were certainly past it but had more years of experience in the league than the age of many players. I think Recchi was the only one of them who played more than a season with the team. Maybe some injury riddled second years if that.

But ignoring the number of seasons they played, did you just compare Matt Stajan to these guys?

[moon]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

But ignoring the number of seasons they played, did you just compare Matt Stajan to these guys?

Why not if Monahan, Bennett and McDavid/Eichel are being compared to Crosby, Malkin and Toews?

The Stajan comparison makes sense since he is similar to those guys mentioned, at least Lang and Madden.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Bend it like Bourgeois

You are expecting a 20 and 21 year old to be leading the team in 2 years?

He may lead our team in goals THIS season as an 18/19 year old rookie...

So yeah, he should be clearly our #1 centre in a couple years.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Did anyone link Burke's quotes on him? I didn't see them yet.

http://flames.nhl.com/club/news.htm?...id=DL|CGY|home

“I thought Matt was a good player in Toronto,” the Flames’ president of hockey operations said via phone during the first intermission of Calgary’s 3-2 loss in San Jose. “The only reason we traded him was that Darryl Sutter insisted that he be in the deal for Dion Phaneuf. That’s the only reason I traded him. I told him that when I came here.

“But he’s a far better hockey player now than he was then. He’s just more alert, his positional play is stronger, he goes where he’s supposed to go without hesitation, his reaction time is much less, which is typical as players get older, but his work ethic has been consistent since he turned pro. His hockey sense has finely developed.

“He does a lot of things well and if our team performance were better, that would be reflective with higher numbers, too.”

“People may point out his point production isn’t great but we’re not a team that scores a lot of goals,” he said. “His contributions come in many other ways -- faceoffs, forechecking, penalty kill. He just does a lot of things well.”

“He’s a leader on our team and he’s a disciple in terms of our system, in terms of training camp, how hard we’ve worked and just buying into the system to work with these younger players,” Burke said. “He’s been terrific for us.”

“It’s critical,” he said. “We have to change the culture here so when you get a guy who’s buying into the new culture, buying into what the coach is teaching and then passing that along and re-enforcing it, encouraging it with the younger players, those are critical things.

“I think Matt’s an important player for our hockey team and I’m glad he’s under contract now. I think it’s an important day for us.”

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by moon

Why not if Monahan, Bennett and McDavid/Eichel are being compared to Crosby, Malkin and Toews?

The Stajan comparison makes sense since he is similar to those guys mentioned, at least Lang and Madden.

Well, no. He isn't.

Lang was an 80 point player when he was 30. Consistely a 60 point player and was brought in to be a veteran second line centre. Stajan has never reached 60 points in his career despite playing the same minutes.

Madden was the go-to shutdown centre on the Stanley Cup Champions when he was 30 and was a 37 year old signed to a one-year deal when he went to the Hawks as a veteran checking line centre.


At least Monahan, McDavid and Bennett are projected to be actual first line centres.

[foshizzle11]

wow, those are some strong comments from Burke there.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Did anyone link Burke's quotes on him? I didn't see them yet.

http://flames.nhl.com/club/news.htm?...id=DL|CGY|home

“I thought Matt was a good player in Toronto,” the Flames’ president of hockey operations said via phone during the first intermission of Calgary’s 3-2 loss in San Jose. “The only reason we traded him was that Darryl Sutter insisted that he be in the deal for Dion Phaneuf. That’s the only reason I traded him. I told him that when I came here.

“But he’s a far better hockey player now than he was then. He’s just more alert, his positional play is stronger, he goes where he’s supposed to go without hesitation, his reaction time is much less, which is typical as players get older, but his work ethic has been consistent since he turned pro. His hockey sense has finely developed.

“He does a lot of things well and if our team performance were better, that would be reflective with higher numbers, too.”

“People may point out his point production isn’t great but we’re not a team that scores a lot of goals,” he said. “His contributions come in many other ways -- faceoffs, forechecking, penalty kill. He just does a lot of things well.”

“He’s a leader on our team and he’s a disciple in terms of our system, in terms of training camp, how hard we’ve worked and just buying into the system to work with these younger players,” Burke said. “He’s been terrific for us.”

“It’s critical,” he said. “We have to change the culture here so when you get a guy who’s buying into the new culture, buying into what the coach is teaching and then passing that along and re-enforcing it, encouraging it with the younger players, those are critical things.

“I think Matt’s an important player for our hockey team and I’m glad he’s under contract now. I think it’s an important day for us.”

I think that was pretty much the expected reason that he got signed by most people.

And, as far as the "what if" scenario that someone was spouting regarding us having Reinhart/Bennett and McDavid/Eichel and having no room for Stajan, well, it's almost more likely that we get none of those guys, and certainly more likely that we get 1 of them, so let's not worry so much.

Besides, does anyone REALLY believe that if we had Monahan, Reinhart/Bennett, and McDavid/Eichel up the middle, that one of those guys wouldn't be out the door to fill a position of actual need? With all three being projected as top 6, you can pretty much book that IF we choose a center top 2 in the next two drafts, that one of them (or Monahan) will certainly be on their way out shortly after.

[powderjunkie]

It's much better to have 5-6 capable centres on a team and slide a couple to the wing than what we've done the last few years with Tangs, Cervenka, Cammy, etc.

[BACKCHECK!!!]

I think it's imperative that we not only push 19 and 20 year old players into crucial top-6 positions on the team, but also that we make sure we get rid of any players who are at risk of being able to help carry that load.

Because if you *don't* rely on 21 year old kids to carry the team, then your rebuild is on its way to failure.

[RedMileDJ]

Count me in the "I'm glad he signed here" camp. However, I do feel it was a little too much.

[Burner]

Originally Posted by sun

How much do you guys think it cost the Flames to not give Stajan a NMC/NTC for this deal? How much money does a player leave on the table in order to get one? Just curious.

I dont know the answer to that but I would rather it be a 4 year term with no NTC/NMC clause then a 3 year deal with one

[Ring of Fire]

Doesn't look like there is a NTC or NMC of any kind according to CapGeek, however they might not have all the details yet. Would be in line with Burke's comments about NTCs.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I don't hate this deal at all. Stajan does shoulder the burden for the Flames. He isn't keeping anyone from getting on this team.

Stajan allowed a rookie in the past (Horak) to take his job away. He had a tough season and was called out by Feaster for some defeatist comments he made. I hate him, and wanted him banished from this team.

What we have seen is a complete turnaround in Stajan's game. I thought I was being fooled in the last half of the last season Sutter was coaching. Thought that things were just going insanely right for him, and that he was maybe a product of the line, rather than a catalyst.

Well, since then, he has been everything that the Flames 'needed' in that spot - though I would prefer of course some size too.

This is a good signing. He can play against the team's top 2 lines (off-setting with Backlund), can take key draws, good on the PK, and a decent all-round player that is well liked and thought of in the dressing room, and who seems to 'get it' and follow what Hartley is demanding.

So 4 years. "He is keeping other guys from getting NHL playing time", "Knight and Granlund deserve to be here", "Colborne needs to be a center on this team", etc. Sorry, they will have to beat Stajan for this. Stajan lost his spot to Horak one season. He will lose it again at some point to another kid who PROVES he deserves it, and takes it away. At that point, you trade Stajan.

The last thing I want to personally see on this hockey club is a huge sense of entitlement issues. Monahan trained like a fiend with Cammalleri, studied NHL centers' tendencies on the faceoff dot, and has worked hard at being a very good 200ft player. Came in to camp with a great attitude. Baertschi didn't do many of those things, and now he is plying his trade on the Heat after Feaster got let go (who was apparently forcing Baertschi on the team). Had he continued to play, maybe you would have a sense of entitlement issue with this kid.

Make this team hard to make. Players develop at the NHL level, but there should be a minimum-entrance competency that must be achieved first. If they don't have that, it is called "rushing your prospects", and it can lead to them being ruined.

Guys like Stajan can not only provide invaluable leadership and allow for the team to more easily shelter players (for their own good in terms of development), but also allows the team to ensure only players that are ready to step into the NHL actually do. It is one thing for players to get called up for a cup of coffee for their development/encouragement, but it is another to place them on the team permanently.

All players have to EARN it, and Stajan will be a good jumping stone for everyone on the team to try and hurdle over - Backlund included (who is close I think to jump him).

[mister__big]

Einstein said the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again while expecting different results.

Not sure how bringing back Stajan for FOUR MORE YEARS will help improve this team. At this point I'd rather go in a different direction, maybe trade for or sign another veteran centre to replace Stajan.

The four years term is what truly befuddles me. Did the Flames really think so highly of Stajan? Or did he refuse to sign for anything less than four years? If you really have to sign him then 2 years max would've sufficed.

[sun]

Originally Posted by mister__big

Einstein said the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again while expecting different results.

Did he?

[irrevocable]

Originally Posted by sun

Did he?

Nope.