[News] Friedman: Feaster/Flames are not going to blow it up

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Bane

Yes, that's worked so well the past 3 seasons

they haven't overhauled the team

[EddyBeers]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Did they not get Karlson as a result of the fire sale?

No, the fire sale year was his sophmore year.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Did they not get Karlson as a result of the fire sale?

He was drafted in 2008 so probably not. By 2008- 2009 season he was already ranked as one of the best d-men from the draft not playing in the NHL.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

Well, now I know why management and ownership won't do the right thing and make the transition. Clearly there enough people like yourself that support the status quo (not trying to be rude).

keeping one player is not status quo...I don't mean to be rude but you should use your head

[EddyBeers]

Originally Posted by dino7c

they haven't overhauled the team

Players still here from the 2009/2010 season:

Iginla
Kipper
Bouwmeester
Giordano
Glencross
Stajan
Backlund
Sarich
and now McGratton

9 players remained, 14 new players. That is pretty much an overhaul.

I suppose they could trade the other 8 players not named Iginla and have a complete overhaul, but they have already tried the overhaul with Iginla here approach.

[dino7c]

if the Flames trade Kipper, Jaybo, Glencross, Step ect. and keep Iginla you think its the same old same old

this place has gone full r-tard

[EddyBeers]

Originally Posted by dino7c

if the Flames trade Kipper, Jaybo, Glencross, Step ect. and keep Iginla you think its the same old same old

this place has gone full r-tard

You would have to be an idiot to think that 14 new players is not a complete overhaul.

The Flames have shifted in four everyday dmen, 8 everyday forwards since that year. They have kept 2 everyday dmen and 4 everyday forwards and brought back McGratton from the dead.

What would you call bringing in 14 new players and keeping 9 from that team, status quo?

Trading the guys you mentioned would be same old same old, get rid of the supporting pieces (not like the Flames have not done that before, from the 2010 they have got rid of Bourque, Langkow, Jokinen, Phaneuf, Nystrom, Moss, Regehr, White, Kotalik, Higgins amongst others). All you are suggesting is getting rid of the other top dmen and forwards other than Iginla, just like they did with Phaneuf, Regehr, Bourque, Jokinen, Langkow etc.

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by dino7c

keeping one player is not status quo...I don't mean to be rude but you should use your head

One common denominator for the past 18 years or so....

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

You would have to be an idiot to think that 14 new players is not a complete overhaul.

The Flames have shifted in four everyday dmen, 8 everyday forwards since that year. They have kept 2 everyday dmen and 4 everyday forwards and brought back McGratton from the dead.

What would you call bringing in 14 new players and keeping 9 from that team, status quo?

Trading the guys you mentioned would be same old same old, get rid of the supporting pieces (not like the Flames have not done that before, from the 2010 they have got rid of Bourque, Langkow, Jokinen, Phaneuf, Nystrom, Moss, Regehr, White, Kotalik, Higgins amongst others). All you are suggesting is getting rid of the other top dmen and forwards other than Iginla, just like they did with Phaneuf, Regehr, Bourque, Jokinen, Langkow etc. )

I overhauling the team with the same type of player is status quo. Yes, replacing aging one dimensional veterans with aging one dimensional veterans isn't going to turn this team around.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

You would have to be an idiot to think that 14 new players is not a complete overhaul.

The Flames have shifted in four everyday dmen, 8 everyday forwards since that year. They have kept 2 everyday dmen and 4 everyday forwards and brought back McGratton from the dead.

What would you call bringing in 14 new players and keeping 9 from that team, status quo?

Every team in the league has brought in 14 new players in the last 4 years your point is pointless. The Flames have not traded major players at the deadline for picks/prospects. What I am saying is that you can keep Iginla and totally change the philosophy of the team

Trading Iginla for a late 1st does nothing for this franchise

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

As the Oilers have proven... you can sell hope.

I don't think the same scenario would fly here. But that's a whole other discussion I guess.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Bend it like Bourgeois

I don't think the same scenario would fly here. But that's a whole other discussion I guess.

I certainly don't think they need to keep Iginla to sell a new arena.

I am pretty sure fans who drop several thou a year on STs would rather see the team building for the future (because our tickets are only going to get more expensive)

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Every team in the league has brought in 14 new players in the last 4 years your point is pointless. The Flames have not traded major players at the deadline for picks/prospects. What I am saying is that you can keep Iginla and totally change the philosophy of the team

Trading Iginla for a late 1st does nothing for this franchise

Iginla is not the answer, that is painfully clear and frankly his philosophy IS the philosophy of this team. Management has made a concerted effort to surround him with players he enjoys playing with and the results have been lacklustre.

We have no idea what return Jarome would fetch in a trade so your late 1st assumption is pointless.

Enough of "could". Trading Iginla WOULD change the philosophy of this team and frankly I think that would be a good thing.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

Players still here from the 2009/2010 season:

Iginla
Kipper
Bouwmeester
Giordano
Glencross
Stajan
Backlund
Sarich
and now McGratton

9 players remained, 14 new players. That is pretty much an overhaul.

I suppose they could trade the other 8 players not named Iginla and have a complete overhaul, but they have already tried the overhaul with Iginla here approach.

There is no such thing as an overhaul if you don't remove at least one of the bolded players above. An overhaul isn't about volume, it's about impact, and the "key success" factors for this team haven't changed in years. Phauneuf is really the only key player that has been moved off of this team and swapped with Bow, which is the closest we've come to an overhaul.

The tinkering with the support players means nothing. Every year since 09 the key to the Flames success has always been the following:

- Iginla is the key forward and is leaned on for results
- Bowmeester needs to be the top D man we pay him to be
- Kipper will have to be one of the best goalies in the world.
- Flames relying on a handful of former "20 goal scorers" to re-find their form and provide support.

Those have been the things you could say about the Flames every year for the past 4 if we were going to find success. They haven't changed in any year, meaning this team actually hasn't tried anything different and hasn't overhauled at all.

The tinkering although high in volume, would be the equivalent of replacing all the forks in a restaurant and calling it a complete renovation with a grand re-openning if you want to say the Flames have overhauled. The Phaneuf deal was the last time this team changed anything of significance on ice.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

One common denominator for the past 18 years or so....

without him we would have missed the playoffs 18 years straight


STATUS QUO!

learn to read you guys...I suggested trading a majority of the vets for picks/prospects

who have the Flames traded recently for picks/prospects...I'm waiting

[Poe969]

The Flames need to trade Iggy. As long as he's here, they'll be in "win now" mode and try to surround him with players that compliment him. Instead, they should build a team from the ground up and have a well rounded team in a few years. The mentality of this team is whatever Iggy makes it, he's their leader, he's the face of the franchise and if he isn't doing well the team isn't doing well.

If we traded everyone but Iggy and kept him, the team would be garbage now and porbably a bit better in the future(if we could get young players or picks for who we move). If we trade Iggy, we'd get a better return (not just a late first rounder) and we'd still suck now but we'd be better sooner.

[dino7c]

I'm not saying don't explore the options but its so unlikely Iginla will be traded...there are moves to be made elsewhere

[Poe969]

I agree that other moves should be made, but if we're going to trade key pieces and admit that the Flames can't make the playoffs, I don't see why Iggy wouldn't at least be rented to a team for the playoffs.

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by dino7c

without him we would have missed the playoffs 18 years straight


STATUS QUO!

learn to read you guys...I suggested trading a majority of the vets for picks/prospects

who have the Flames traded recently for picks/prospects...I'm waiting

We can read just fine. Let me refresh your memory as to what your post was.

Originally Posted by dino7c

Flames can keep Iginla and totally overhaul the team...a late 1st and a decent player is the most we are gonna get anyway

Nothing in there about trading off vets for picks or prospects.

I never argued that the Flames have traded anyone for picks and prospects so I'm not sure what that's all about.

My point was this team HAS been overhauled....several times. The famous "core" shipped out save Iginla and Kipprusoff. You can argue all you want that other teams have changed their roster, were focussing on the Calgary Flames.

Iginla has been great for the franchise, he's an outstanding player, has a great history for the Flames and he'll always hold a special place in the hearts of Flames fans. But rebuild AGAIN around Iginla? That horse has been beaten unmercifully and left for dead.

Let it go.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Trading Iginla for a late 1st does nothing for this franchise

It changes the dynamic of this team for better or for worse. And something that is more likely needed than anything else.

I am personally not on either side of the fence when it comes to trading Iginla but what I do know is that everything about the Flames in the last three to five years has become stale and stagnant. They've gone through coaches, Gm's and plenty of different player combinations and even tried regurgitating past success in Tanguay and Cammy and Conroy.

What rewards has that brought the organization on the ice? A winning product? Not really as we are heading into our worst finish in the standings since Iginla came to CGY and out of the playoffs for the fourth consecutive year. Everything about the on ice product has been built around Iggy with not a lot of success.

So the argument I guess is that changing Iginla leads to a difference in fundamental philosophy within the organization. And it wouldn't matter what the return is as long as the team has a chance to move on and build success around the team as a whole or around another potential Franchise player.