I'm fairly certain the last thing you want to do to a pissed off, crazy dude with a gun is disagree with him.
With that many people in the room his best course of action would have been agreeing to whatever the hell the gunman wanted. If you cave into all of his demands maybe he'll leave - that is why he came in in the first place. At the very least it buys you time.
At the same time, if he's going to shoot me over something I never did, I'll be sure to let him know that.
Scenario 1:
Gunman: You campaigned that you wouldn't raise taxes, then you did, prepare to die
Chairman: No, hold on, I campaigned that I would raise taxes, as that was the most fair
(get him to not kill you, as his premise for killing you is incorrect)
Scenario 2:
Gunman: You campaigned that you wouldn't raise taxes, then you did, prepare to die
Chairman: Yep, I lied, that's exactly what I did
(get him to not kill you for validating his reasons for killing you)
Somehow Scenario 2 doesn't make sense to me. However, I am no hostage negotiator, so I will differ to the expertise of anyone who is.
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Just after the room was cleared of everyone but the six men, board member Ginger Littleton crept back into the room behind Duke and attempted with her purse to knock the gun from his hand. She did not succeed, and she and Duke struggled. Littleton wound up on the ground, and Duke cursed her and pointed the gun at her, but he did not fire and allowed her to leave the room.
Littleton told CNN Wednesday she thought she was going to die, but she went back inside because "I was concerned about my guys. They were lined up like ducks in a row. He was already basically standing on the same level as them. I knew something bad was going to happen. That was my only option. ... My guys had three-ring binders and pencils for protection, and that's all."
When Duke knocked her to the ground, "my thought was that Plan A had failed, and I didn't have a Plan B, which was probably not one of the smartest things I ever did," Littleton said.
She said she doesn't know why Duke did not pull the trigger, but her sense was "he wanted to be killed rather than kill." As time passed, however, "it appeared he was getting more and more ready to do some real damage," she said.
Littleton told reporters Wednesday she has three daughters, "and they said, 'Mom, are you just stupid? What were you thinking?'" She said she didn't have an answer.
But, she noted, "the sun is beautiful, and it looks great today." She laughed as she held up her purse for the cameras.
I sure hope people don't see this woman as a hero or something. What she did was purely stupid and idiotic.
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Exp:
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck
...and predictably the media will use these occurances to demonize the 2nd amendment. .
Amen brother - responsible media editorializing should instead be more concerned with the lamentable lack of training and accuracy exhibited by these amateur gunmen. If you can't find time to hit the range and learn to use your weapon properly, you make legitimate gun owners look bad.
I'm not saying every lunatic needs to be up to Marine standards of marksmanship like Lee Harvey Oswald, but a minimal level of competence isn't too much to ask, is it?
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Obviously. Do you think attacking a 300 pound man with a purse is the smartest thing?
That is an interesting way to word it.
I'm not saying what she did was a good idea but calling her stupid is pretty harsh considering you have absolutely no idea what being in that situation is like.
I'm not saying what she did was a good idea but calling her stupid is pretty harsh considering you have absolutely no idea what being in that situation is like.
So people cant assess situations unless they have had a gun pointed at them? Seems like silly logic to me.
What she did was brave, but very stupid. If she had a baseball bat instead of a purse I think it would have been a great move.
The chairman was trying to figure out what the gunman wanted, he was aware that the gunman's interests lied with his wife. That's why he kept going back to find out who his wife was, what she did, keep him focused on her.
By simply telling the gunman what he wanted to her he would have been dismissive, as evidenced by the person sitting next to the chairman that said he'd help his wife get a new job. He wasn't interested in that. We're not sure what he was interested in.
The argument you're talking about is over the raising of taxes. Not knowing if the chairman was right/wrong, I'll assume he did campaign on having sales tax to support public schools. If that's true, he was merely correcting the gunman's mistaken belief. Was that the right thing to do? At the time I think so, as the gunman was actually rather calm until he held up the gun and started pulling the trigger.
I thought the chairman was very brave and he should be commended for trying to defuse a very bad situation. Some people will say that he should have agreed to whatever the gunman said, but I think that too could have back-fired. Suppose he agrees that he flip-flopped on the sales tax issue. What if that makes the gunman even more enraged? I think in a situation like this, you are better off trying to reason with the guy rather than allow him to successfully paint you as the villain that he believes you to be. If a gunman accuses you of sleeping with his wife when you didn't, you aren't going to agree with him just because he has a gun. I think the chairman did the right thing.
At the same time, if he's going to shoot me over something I never did, I'll be sure to let him know that.
Scenario 1:
Gunman: You campaigned that you wouldn't raise taxes, then you did, prepare to die
Chairman: No, hold on, I campaigned that I would raise taxes, as that was the most fair
(get him to not kill you, as his premise for killing you is incorrect)
Scenario 2:
Gunman: You campaigned that you wouldn't raise taxes, then you did, prepare to die
Chairman: Yep, I lied, that's exactly what I did
(get him to not kill you for validating his reasons for killing you)
Somehow Scenario 2 doesn't make sense to me. However, I am no hostage negotiator, so I will differ to the expertise of anyone who is.
Whoa whoa whoa, agreeing that he lied is not defusing the situation. It would be more like:
Scenario 2:
Gunman: You campaigned that you wouldn't raise taxes, then you did, prepare to die
Chairman: I didn't realize I upset people. You're right, I was wrong. I'll lower taxes for you.
Amen brother - responsible media editorializing should instead be more concerned with the lamentable lack of training and accuracy exhibited by these amateur gunmen. If you can't find time to hit the range and learn to use your weapon properly, you make legitimate gun owners look bad.
I'm not saying every lunatic needs to be up to Marine standards of marksmanship like Lee Harvey Oswald, but a minimal level of competence isn't too much to ask, is it?
Well, I'm just glad that this Mike Jones fellow was able to disarm the gunman with a banana.
I'm not saying every lunatic needs to be up to Marine standards of marksmanship like Lee Harvey Oswald, but a minimal level of competence isn't too much to ask, is it?
Interestingly, attempts to accurately re-create the JFK shooting scenario with modern professional marksmen has failed badly....
I'll bet this guy worked for the Bilderberger group and he was attempting to draw attention away from them by pretending not to work for the Government while attempting to eliminate a public servant.
Thats what this is.
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Remarkable video. Saw them interview the superintendent on CNN last night and they kept replaying the video about 200 times. Amazing that the superintendent wasn't hit. Like many of you, I cringed when that lady tried to disarm him. I guess people react differently in stressful situations, but that wasn't smart, at all. One of the craziest videos I've seen for sure.
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A few weeks after crashing head-first into the boards (denting his helmet and being unable to move for a little while) following a hit from behind by Bob Errey, the Calgary Flames player explains:
"I was like Christ, lying on my back, with my arms outstretched, crucified"
-- Frank Musil - Early January 1994
With a shot like that no wonder why we lost Vietnam.
But this is a reason why I have my pistol permit and carry everywhere. takes one nut job like this.
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Dude was a wacky job, and a very bad shot which is pretty good news for the school council.
I thought the chairmen did a very good job of trying to difuse the situation and trying to buy time. At that point, the longer you can keep him talking and NOT shooting the more likley you are to get out alive.
As for purse lady, it's pretty harsh to call her an idiot or whatever. No, she didn't make the best decision but from her vantage point, she was already in the safe zone and went back to try and save innocent lives. Did she go about it the best way, maybe not... but hard to vililfy her for trying. Besides, for all we know it looked to her like he was barely holding onto the gun. If she could surprise him, maybe she knocks the gun from his hand and others pile on and grab it before he does. She wasn't trying to overpower him, she was trying to disarm him but using the element of surprise. Probably would have worked better for her if she had an ax though...
