The funny thing is that this super nerd that Asian parents try and mold their kids into (of all work and no play) absolutely gets destroyed in the real world work force. That's typically not the person that rises fast in an organization as a leader of people.
Not that they won't be valued in an organization, but they're the ones that get locked up in a room running Matlab all day.
And get paid 30% less than someone with a more outgoing personality. It's also my experience that they work twice as hard.
If the "Asian" is a citizen of Canada attending the University I have no issue. If they are on a visa then that is a different issue.
It actually helps the university. You know foreign students get charged something like 3 or 4 times more for the same education we're paying for. They're helping to lower the tuition for everyone else. If someone is willing to pay that much for university here... so much the better for everyone else.
I do think that Canadian universities should continue to be focused on servicing Canadians, but there's no doubt in my mind that universities benefit from having many international students including Asian students. As Canadians, we have a much easier road in getting into top quality universities than would many Asian students.
The fact is that there is such a wealth of talent and ability in Asia that Canadian universities can be very selective in terms of who gets in, and it's very competitive to get into an elite university. Just looking at the raw numbers for population it's not hard to figure out that there will be a hell of a lot more smart and able people in China and India than there are in Canada. Because of those numbers and level of competition among them universities in Canada can select some excellent elite level minds to join the student body. Furthermore, they are not necessarily just bright people but a lot of the students that earn those opportunities have done so through extremely hard work. It is no surprise in Asia to find students that study until midnight and past that every day even at the middle school level.
There are two major questions for universities as I see it:
1. Will they be elite international educational institutions or very good national institutions.?
If a university in Canada puts a strong limit on the number of international students in the school then it's limiting itself to a pool of university age applicants in a population of 30+ million as opposed to a pool of applicants from a population in the billions. Whether the institutions are Canadian or not, that massive market is going to have institutions rise to fill their needs as those populations are achieving higher quality lives with more opportunities and education, and those institutions will be able to attract masses of excellent talent.
2. Are their entrance procedures and requirements attracting the kind of students they really want?
It is big business in Asia getting kids to meet the current entrance requirements of those elite universities they target in the West. There are even kindergartens in Asia that market themselves on beginning to groom children for attending elite foreign universities, and parents who will compete to have their children attend these. This goes on throughout all grades of many elite schools in Asia, and the promise of getting into an elite foreign university is what motivates parents to sacrifice a great deal in getting their kids into and through those schools.
The forces that shape the nature of these schools are the entrance requirements of those universities and intense competition to satisfy them. Just as it has always been, universities shape much of K-12 education and determine what kind of people K-12 aims to produce. In a situation of intense competition like there is in Asia universities end up getting more of what meets their entrance requirements. If universities aren't satisfied with the type of students they're getting from Asia then they can change their entrance requirements and those K-12 and after school training programs will adapt to produce different students.
I'm not sure if you are replying to the article, but international students was not the point of the article. The term "too asian" is used more to denote that fact that some people feel certain universities are bending far too much into the direction of over-academia and the experience and campus-life and camraderie are missing neglected. The article refers more to the atmosphere of competition and over-achievement (at the expense of other things in life) due in some parts to the percieved asian population of these universities. I'd say a majority of asian students at Canadian universities are Canadian citizens or landed immigrants of asian background, not international students.
If we are talking international students, my experience is that many of these people, especially students from Mainland China or India already have university level educations in their home countries and are many years older than the average "WASP" Canadian student and are just trying to get equivalencies or accreditation.
It actually helps the university. You know foreign students get charged something like 3 or 4 times more for the same education we're paying for. They're helping to lower the tuition for everyone else. If someone is willing to pay that much for university here... so much the better for everyone else.
Correct, but when you consider 4 * 6000 is only 24000 and some Universities in the US charge 50K it doesnt seem like that great of a deal.
I would rather have Canadians educated than non Canadians brought in to prop up the system, if that means more money to universities than so be it.
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Why? Non-Asian non-citizens of Canada have the same opportunites to get a VISA. Unless you are saying that all University students should be Canadian Citizens.
Sorry, all visa students.
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I'm not sure if you are replying to the article, but international students was not the point of the article. The term "too asian" is used more to denote that fact that some people feel certain universities are bending far too much into the direction of over-academia and the experience and campus-life and camraderie are missing neglected. The article refers more to the atmosphere of competition and over-achievement (at the expense of other things in life) due in some parts to the percieved asian population of these universities. I'd say a majority of asian students at Canadian universities are Canadian citizens or landed immigrants of asian background, not international students.
If we are talking international students, my experience is that many of these people, especially students from Mainland China or India already have university level educations in their home countries and are many years older than the average "WASP" Canadian student and are just trying to get equivalencies or accreditation.
I was replying to some of the conversation about international students that came up in the thread, not really the article.
Edit: I would say though that the point about entrance requirements pertains to the article as well. Universities are just getting what they ask for. Getting more of it when there are people who will work harder to provide it.
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Correct, but when you consider 4 * 6000 is only 24000 and some Universities in the US charge 50K it doesnt seem like that great of a deal.
I would rather have Canadians educated than non Canadians brought in to prop up the system, if that means more money to universities than so be it.
The US universities charging in the 50k range are almost exclusively private institutions, so you're comparing very different things. State schools in the US are typically not all that out of line with Canadian schools when it comes to tuition, at least for residents. The big difference is that US schools break down residency at the state level, as opposed to national, and AFAIK charge an additional premium to those from another country on top of the non-resident fees.
Another thing is the language barrier. Other than the profs who can't speak a lick of English that was previously mentioned, it is incredibly annoying when you're doing a group project and the Asians in your group tend to converse in their native tongue, rather than English, because it's more convenient or because they don't fully grasp the English language. Three of the past four groups I've done projects with(three groups were randomly assigned) have had the aforementioned problem(including a girl who couldn't speak English at all)
It's ridiculous if they are knowingly letting international students who can't speak English pass through the acceptance process
Which then relates to the idea of "A" students not being as well-rounded as the "B" students, which goes beyond the race card and into the educational skills debate.
Which then relates to the idea of "A" students not being as well-rounded as the "B" students, which goes beyond the race card and into the educational skills debate.
Which of course may not be entirely founded itself, because some curriculum could just come really easy to some students (and fly by with a 3.7-3.8 GPA without much effort) or really hard to others, changing their spare time habits...which explains why (from what I've heard) most companies really don't care about your GPA after the first job.
Which then relates to the idea of "A" students not being as well-rounded as the "B" students, which goes beyond the race card and into the educational skills debate.
Absolutely. Start attending Toastmasters classes and watch yourself get promoted.
Not exactly difficult if you have the technical skills as well.
Absolutely. Start attending Toastmasters classes and watch yourself get promoted.
Not exactly difficult if you have the technical skills as well.
To a certain extent I can emphasize that many of these people still think in their first language, and that when they try to translate it to how they understand English it doesn't always come out clear.
But the ones who put themselves out there and make an effort tend to stand out. The company I'm with right now has quite a few people who've immigrated to Canada. The ones who seem to hold the better positions are the ones who make the most effort to communicate with the caucasions. They don't neccessarily speak the language any better, but they at least have recognition.
Oddly enough the corporate department where the high paid fat cats work...is entirely caucasian.
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