Welcome Back Khadr

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by blankall

This I agree with.

He was 15 at the time he got caught and probably much younger at the time he was "enlisted" and went into "service".

I think he should still be punished but he's already spent the last 8 years in prison.

My question is why are the adults around him allowed to run free. The whole extended family has ties to various terrorist organizations. I would be very surprised to learn that a single one of them is clean.

I find it insulting that you use terms like enlist and service. This kid is not a soldier, he dressed like a civilian while building road side bombs with the hopes of spreading terror and murdering civilians.

I even have trouble with the whole he was a child soldier argument. Child Soldiers are snatched from their homes, ripped from their families, beaten and abused and indoctrinated through the use of drugs and physical abuse.

I don't buy that Kadr didn't know that killing civilians was wrong, I don't buy the excuse that he was forcibly indoctrinated by his dad.

I'd like to thank Jean Chretien for going to bat and openly meeting with the old man which means it becomes extremely difficult to do anything about that hateful little family.

I'm hoping that he doesn't serve his time in Canada where he will benefit from our soft parole system. I think if he does get to come back to this country the condition is he never gets to contact or talk with his family again.

To me if you run around in civilian garb, and attack a member of the military, its not a combat casualty its murder, if you run around in civilian garb and attack civilians its murder.

The fact that he attacked one of our allies in a country that we are fighting in labels the little creep as a traitor.

I wouldn't shed a tear if he never saw the light of day.

Unfortunately the little was born in Canada so we can't revoke his citizenship. Its likely that the conservatives will have to take him back. But that doesn't mean that he should be treated like one of us.

[flylock shox]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I find it insulting that you use terms like enlist and service. This kid is not a soldier, he dressed like a civilian while building road side bombs with the hopes of spreading terror and murdering civilians.

I even have trouble with the whole he was a child soldier argument. Child Soldiers are snatched from their homes, ripped from their families, beaten and abused and indoctrinated through the use of drugs and physical abuse.

I don't buy that Kadr didn't know that killing civilians was wrong, I don't buy the excuse that he was forcibly indoctrinated by his dad.

To be fair, blankall placed quotation marks around the terms "enlisted" and "service." I took this to mean he was using these words as parallels, lacking better terms for the context of terrorist organizations. I suppose he could have said "recruited" or "action," but I think he actually did draw the distinction you've made through the use of quotation marks.

And your point about child soldiers may be valid for some, but not necessarily all, children who are forced to participate in violent acts. In his case their was no need to kidnap, abuse, or drug him: he appears to have been a prisoner of indoctrination for the first 15 years of his life. Or do I misinterpret your position about his father and his family in general?

How much blame does a 15 year old deserve for believing in the same cult as those who raised him from infancy? How much can we sympathize with a 15 year old who is sent to a place like that, to be with people like that, to face a situation like that? How do we expect a 15 year old to get out of that situation?

Even if not a child soldier, he was a child. And even if you do not accept that, at 15 years old, he was still a child, he was, for every moment of childhood you will credit him as having, a child who was apparently taught by those closest to him to believe the very things he came to believe - the things he ultimately acted upon. Do we throw away every 15 year old who made the mistake of believing what he was taught all his life to believe, by those he trusted most - and of acting on those beliefs?

Maybe, sometimes, we should.

But sometimes we should also remember what it was like to be that age, and try to imagine (if we can) what his life must have been like - what it must have been like to deal with thoughts, pressures, and hate like that, all while still a boy.

What chance did he ever have? What chance would any of us have had, in those circumstances, at the age of 15?

[Hanni]

I hate how we draw this arbitrary line at the age of 18, like somehow turning 18 flips a switch and you've somehow changed.

He was born and raised in Canada, did he not attend school here, get any exposure to Canadian culture? I don't believe for a second that he was completely brainwashed, not having any idea what he was doing was wrong in some sense.

Indoctrination is no excuse for behavior, almost every member of a militant organization is indoctrinated from childhood, this doesn't excuse any of them. Just because Khadr was a little younger than most, the argument of indoctrination should have no bearing, since it has no bearing on the guilt of those only 3 years older than he was.

[burn_this_city]

Seems like a nice boy.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Kh...973/story.html

[OzSome]

I am so tired of some of the media or some of the people saying we should bring Khadr home. My question is why?? He is a criminal. It's good that the Canadian government are willing to bail us out Canadians in abroad if we get in trouble BUT this is different. Criminals like him and that Smith guy who killed some people in Montana, the government shouldn't even waste our taxpayer's money. Let them pay for their crime somewhere where they supposed to.

[CaptainCrunch]

Well its irrelevant

Yesterday in the House the Government stated that they would be petitioning for Kadr to server out his sentence in Canada after year one.

The NDP has also stated to the media that they will petition for his parole the minute he lands on Canadian soil.

I'm not happy about it, I'm not shocked.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

His dad who was a key figure in Osama Bin Laden's group and acted like a financier, you know the guy that was responsible for 9/11.

Wasn't mikey_the_redneck one of the truthers thinking that 9/11 was an inside job and Bin Laden had nothing to do with it? I'm surprised he hasn't tried to argue this point.

Although, perhaps I'm mistaken and thinking of someone else/blending some of their crazy ideas together into some kind of crazy but delicious goulash.

[Delthefunky]

My understanding is he was sent to Afghanistan at 13, and indoctrinated by his father long before that. I think his family should be the ones to blame. I know I was quite impressionable when I was young, and would likely believe anything my father told me. And I do consider him a child soldier. He was fooled to believe in a cause at an age he couldn't possibly comprehend what was really going on.

But it's just a really sad and unfortunate situation. Really ugly and dirty. His life is ruined, I wouldn't trust him as a free man, but I don't believe it's right he is locked up. I'm sure he'll be returned to Canada in a year or whatever, spend 8 more in our system, but then what?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Delthefunky

My understanding is he was sent to Afghanistan at 13, and indoctrinated by his father long before that. I think his family should be the ones to blame. I know I was quite impressionable when I was young, and would likely believe anything my father told me. And I do consider him a child soldier. He was fooled to believe in a cause at an age he couldn't possibly comprehend what was really going on.

But it's just a really sad and unfortunate situation. Really ugly and dirty. His life is ruined, I wouldn't trust him as a free man, but I don't believe it's right he is locked up. I'm sure he'll be returned to Canada in a year or whatever, spend 8 more in our system, but then what?

I have a lot of trouble with the whole child soldier thing. First and foremost I don't consider the Taliban and Al Queda to be soldiers. Second this was a kid who was born and raised in Canada, went to our schools, and then went over there, and one of his first jobs was in a bomb factory making bombs that not only targeted our ally, but also potentially Canadian Troops, on top of it, these devices are also used against Civillians.

He was never beaten, or drugged, or plied with booze, or pulled out of poverty like the actual child soldiers that we should be focusing our attention on, child soldiers with no education and no choices. Kadr had gone to school, he had been exposed to a liberal democratic society.

First and foremost the kid is a traitor to his country, and he should be treated accordingly, second of all, he was part of a terrorist organization that targets civilians.

In my mind it would be find to bring him back to Canada, if he was jailed indefinately.

I don't buy his apology, I don't buy that he suddenly wants to "do no harm" he was either indoctrinated, or he did it willingly, either way, I don't trust this kid, nor his family.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

Wasn't mikey_the_redneck one of the truthers thinking that 9/11 was an inside job and Bin Laden had nothing to do with it? I'm surprised he hasn't tried to argue this point.

Although, perhaps I'm mistaken and thinking of someone else/blending some of their crazy ideas together into some kind of crazy but delicious goulash.

Bin Laden is not wanted for the 9/11 attacks because thers is a lack of hard evidence showing his involvment. Check his FBI poster. Not that I want to get off topic here...

I think CaptainCrunch is too hung up on the fact that Khadr was dressed like a civilian. I didn't think Al-Qaeda or the Taliban had any traditional military uniforms in the first place, which is part of the challenge of identifying the enemy.

Khadr is a back stabber and deserves lots of jail time no doubt, but I think there is more than enough civilian blood on the hands of American/Canadian soldiers than we care to admit. It comes off as a bit hypocritical.

[CaptainCrunch]

Call me when Canadian Troops go out of their way to attack and kill civillians to intimidate or induce terror.

A fairly large percentage of civillian casualities are caused by Taliban and Al Queda members shielding themselves within their own families or other civillians.

[Delthefunky]

I suppose child soldier could be defined in different ways. For me he was just far too young to make a decision between good and evil, and although he may not have been persuaded by force or through drugs, he was still forced to follow his fathers wishes (which I am assuming). I just don't think Omar had much say in the matter.

[Redliner]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

First and foremost the kid is a traitor to his country, and he should be treated accordingly, second of all, he was part of a terrorist organization that targets civilians.

This.

The kid was born in Canada, raised in Canada, educated in Canada. Then he and his family decided that Afghanistan and the Taliban way of life were more appealing than the freedoms and lifestyle Canada provides, and went to fight for the enemy. He fought against our nation's allies, and killed one of them. He was employed by the enemy making bombs that were intended for use against coalition (probably including Canadian) troops and civilians. If this is not the definition of treason, what is?

The Khadr family has been using Canada at their convenience from the beginning. They live here and enjoy the same rights and freedoms as the rest of us, then apparently despise our way of life so much that they go and move to another country to fight for a terrorism organization bent on destroying us. After the dust settles and little Omar gets caught by the big bad Americans, suddenly they want to be Canadian again.

To me, Canadian citizenship is not something to be taken lightly or cast aside and then assumed again whenever convenient. You live under this flag, you'd better bleed for this flag when necessary. You don't go fight against it, then expect it's protection when you get caught. There are people who go their entire lives wanting to emigrate to Canada and make tremendous sacrifices to get here and become Canadian citizens. Members of my own family fought and died as citizens of this country, and to even consider Omar Khadr in the same breath as them is disgusting.

As far as I am concerned, when you go to war against your own country you are renouncing your citizenship. It is completely beyond me why anyone would be concerned with ensuring this POS receives all the rights and privileges of a Canadian citizen after he has blatantly trampled that citizenship underfoot. The little creep deserves to rot in Guantanamo for the next 800 years.

[Delthefunky]

..Then he and his family decided that Afghanistan and the Taliban way of life

Agree 100% except for this part. I don't think he chose himself to move to Afghanistan and join the Taliban.