ER doctors urge MPs to keep gun registry

[CaramonLS]

Doesn't a bullet from a registered gun kill just as quickly as a bullet from an unregistered gun? I fail to see why ER doctors would have a valid opinion on this.

[NuclearFart]

Originally Posted by Azure

The argument is kinda stupid because ER doctors don't kill people on purpose, unlike the people who shoot other people with a gun.

Why do you think ER doctors want the gun registry to not be shut down?

It's stupid and irrelevant for a number of reasons, and the statement is only made to shift the focus away from the real issue.

Considering they see every salvageable gun shot victim, and are advocates of healthy living as part of the job, they should have a say in these matters. If it at all might lower the rate of gun shot wounds, even by one, it is their duty to take that position, especially when private weapons have absolutely no health benefit.


As an aside, since when did ER doctors become known as killers? The ER doesn't stand for Euthanasia Room. What is more likely - 1) people dying from medical care 2) people dying from the acute reason that brought them to the ER in the first place.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Azure

Uhhh, yeah?

Of course it depends on what kind of criminal you're talking about, but in order to register a gun, you must first own a PAL, and in order to get your PAL, you need to pass a police background check.

...


Prove to me its beneficial and I'll support it. What does it hurt is a lame argument.

What I am saying is people can have a registered gun and then perform a criminal act, making them a criminal.

As for whether or not anyone supports the gun registry, I really couldn't care less. If I want to buy a gun, I have no problems if I have to register it or not. The only reason I spoke up in this thread is because the arguments being used were foolish and illogical.

Saying it was expensive to set up has nothing to do with the cost/effectiveness of maintaining it. Sure you can be mad that we spent the money in the first place, but the money is gone and cutting the program won't get that money back.

Saying the gun registry cannot and has not prevented any crime is foolish, because there is no way to know the exact outcomes.

Saying a cop will behave differently approaching a criminal who does not have a PAL/registered weapon compared to one who does is foolish as well. If someone is known to be violent or a known offender is probably a much more important thing to consider.

[Dion]

Of the 16 police officer shooting deaths since 1998, 14 were committed with a long gun. .... Little consolation to the families of the slain officers. The registry did nothing to save their lives.

The registry was introduced by the Liberals on the basis of "public safety." It has done little to nothing to reduce the gang crimes in Canada or the illegal shipment of guns across the border.

The registry does not tell officers if there are illegal or unregistered firearms on the premises. They have to treat each call with guns possibly being on the residence.

We have officers walking the beat raising huge concerns about the registry and how it's not working and the the pencil pushing desk jockeys of the CPCA ignoring or brushing off those concerns. Randy Kuntz shouldn't have to go public with his polling numbers and concerns. It's become a highly political issue that the CPCA does not want to loose.

According to the latest Angus Reid poll only 13% of Canadians believe the registry has been successful in preventing crime. Forty-three per cent believe the registry has been unsuccessful, while 29% feel it has had no effect. More Canadians would scrap the registry than keep it.

You don't have to be a gun owner to to see that the regisrty does little to make our lives safer.

[Nage Waza]

Where is the registry located? There must be a central office building. How many people work there? I wonder who that area historically votes for.
I doubt any government official who helped create the registry cared one bit about guns...they created jobs and drove another wedge between the conservatives and the liberals.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Rathji

What I am saying is people can have a registered gun and then perform a criminal act, making them a criminal.

Yes, and after that the PAL is revoked, and they will be forced to turn in their guns to the police, at least those that were registered, and the guns are destroyed. I have a friend that destroys these guns on a weekly basis.

If someone is known to be violent or a known offender is probably a much more important thing to consider.

Exactly. And cops will worry about things like that more than they will worry about whether or not the guy owns a gun. Which in most cases won't even be registered.

There are no good arguments in favor of the gun registry, plain and simple. From my standpoint, making me register my firearms as a law abiding citizen is a waste of time. And I don't care if it takes me 5 min. There is also the privacy issue, especially considering that there have been a lot of documented problems with the system where people had access to information they shouldn't have.

Nothing like being able to access the gun registry to find out which house you should rob.

As for the part about helping with crime, sorry, but I don't see it. I have already pointed out that criminals cannot register guns because they can't even get a PAL, and PALs get rejected for a variety of different crimes. Guns get destroyed all the time if you are deemed a hazard to society.

There is no way to track a gun if it gets stolen, outside of actually doing real police work. The whole basis behind the registry is STILL in who the owner of the guns is. Hence, their PAL.

That is exactly what I have always advocated an enhanced PAL program, with more emphasis placed on firearm education and safety, and a STRONG police check to weed out any potential problems.

Far as I'm concerned if you got caught breaking and entering at any time during your life, you should have to meet with a certified firearms officer, and in person explain to him why you should be able to hold a PAL. If you don't, to bad.

Again, we're talking about long-guns here. When it comes to restricted and prohibited firearms it becomes a different story.

I don't particularly prefer the laws in that regard, but I can see where they are necessary.

I also think that the gun registry was entirely based around a government program to make the public feel like they're safe, when in fact like I said, better education, and proper review would do a much better job. But then again, anti-gun people, or those people who are scared of firearms would never want to suggest better education for the people PAL. I call it people criticizing what they don't understand.

Blame the media, blame whoever, fact is that guns, and the people who own guns have been lumped together into the same group. As a bunch of rednecks who are out for a good time with no care for the law.

[Barnes]

Azure, are you under the impression that your PAL has any information on the guns you own?

[Calgaryborn]

The funny thing is I'm sure the number of people who own restricted weapons has gone up since the long gun registry was introduced. I know a lot of guys who because they were forced to take the PAL for unrestricted anyways decided to pay another $75.00 or whatever it is and get their restricted PAL as well.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

Where is the registry located? There must be a central office building. How many people work there? I wonder who that area historically votes for.
I doubt any government official who helped create the registry cared one bit about guns...they created jobs and drove another wedge between the conservatives and the liberals.

The registry is administered from Miramichi, New Brunswick. The area's current MP is Tilly O'Neill-Gordon of the Conservative Party. Harper announced last week that his government would be setting up a centralized payroll centre for federal employees in Miramichi to create jobs in the area if the gun registry is scrapped.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

The registry is administered from Miramichi, New Brunswick. The area's current MP is Tilly O'Neill-Gordon of the Conservative Party. Harper announced last week that his government would be setting up a centralized payroll centre for federal employees in Miramichi to create jobs in the area if the gun registry is scrapped.

That riding was liberal red for many years before 2006.

[Pinner]

If you wanted to disarm a population, a gun registry would be a good start.

[WilsonFourTwo]

Originally Posted by Rathji

The bolded part is confusing.

How could anyone possibly know if there was crime prevented by the registry? Ever gun that is turned in, confiscated or remain unpurchased because of the redtape nightmare could be a potential prevention of a crime.

Point taken, nicely put. At first I thought you (and MarchHare) were just mincing my words, but I realize that the point wasn't really clear.

Let me rephrase my position......I have not seen any meaningful, measurable metric that supports the setup and/or continued operation of the federal long-gun registry. It MAY be out there, but I have yet to see it (and yes, my eyes are open).

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Barnes

Azure, are you under the impression that your PAL has any information on the guns you own?

Uhhh, no. I just said that if you're looking for a description of people, the PAL is a better place to start than the registry forms.

Especially since you have to use your PAL to buy bullets or guns.