Conservapedia: E=mc2 Is A Liberal Conspiracy

[Thor]

Yes all Atheists are arrogant.

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by peter12

The arrogance displayed by this new wave of atheists is pretty staggering to me. Granted, I try to match it with my own arrogance, but the whole dynamic doesn't seem very healthy for potential debates.

Atheist: Religious people are dumb. Because I have read a few books by some of these new popular guys like Hitchens, Harris and Dawkins I am forever superior in universal knowledge than the knuckle-dragging theists.

Theist: GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

Athiesm never killed anybody, unless it was a "believer" doing the killing.

Religion is repsonsible for more death, suffering, bigotry, fear-mongering and hatred than any other institution in the history of humanity. It stinks. Its rotten to the core. And I cannot believe how many otherwise intelligent and free-thinking people choose to allow massive sects of their lives to be essentially brainwashed and controlled by a fairy-tale designed as a form of sociological control/manipulation.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Thor

Yes all Atheists are arrogant.

Hey, I'm mainly an atheist, to a point. In my real, non-Internet life, I'm not a mean or arrogant guy. The road to revelation is a respectable one.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

Athiesm never killed anybody, unless it was a "believer" doing the killing.

Read something about the history of the Soviet Union and Maoist China, then get back to me, mkay? You're just advertising your own complete ignorance of the facts.

And I don't appreciate your calling me brainwashed or stupid. Have I said anything on this board before, to your knowledge, that suggested I was either of those things? If not, I believe you owe me an apology.

Yes, I take it personally when people utter bigoted and senseless attacks against an identifiable group of which I happen to be a member.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

I think you misunderstand.

Where did I claim to be tolerant?

Ah, so you admit you're a bigot. Now we're getting somewhere.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

Athiesm never killed anybody, unless it was a "believer" doing the killing.

Religion is repsonsible for more death, suffering, bigotry, fear-mongering and hatred than any other institution in the history of humanity. It stinks. Its rotten to the core. And I cannot believe how many otherwise intelligent and free-thinking people choose to allow massive sects of their lives to be essentially brainwashed and controlled by a fairy-tale designed as a form of sociological control/manipulation.

I have my doubts about the statement that aethiesm not killing anyone. The first thing that the Soviet and Chinese communist leadership did was to harshly repress any kind of religious thought and they murdered millions.

Kim Jong Il and his father are and were both atheists and murdered millions.

Fidel Castro stated in commandant "I have never been a believer" yet he was responsible for a lot of deaths.

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I have my doubts about the statement that aethiesm not killing anyone. The first thing that the Soviet and Chinese communist leadership did was to harshly repress any kind of religious thought and they murdered millions.

Kim Jong Il and his father are and were both atheists and murdered millions.

Fidel Castro stated in commandant "I have never been a believer" yet he was responsible for a lot of deaths.

I guess I stand corrected on that one.

Thanks, Captain, for discussing the facts.

[Weiser Wonder]

"Religions are manipulated in order to serve those who govern society and not the other way around." - Gore Vidal

Religion has been used as a rationalization to oppress as has contempt for religion. It's the tool, not the motivation.

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Ah, so you admit you're a bigot. Now we're getting somewhere.

A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices.

Prove God exists and it isn't a fairy tale.

Also, in the face of all the pain and suffering religion has brought on the world, your continuing blind devotion would also make you a bigot. Hi pot, I'm kettle.

The correct use of the term requires the elements of intolerance, irrationality, and animosity toward those of differing beliefs.

Can you say Crusades? Salem Witch Hunt? Islam's war on the west?

Or perhaps your own personal exteme emotional reaction to the citing of history that so severely blemishes your beliefs? Talk about animosity.

The term has evolved to refer to persons hostile to people of differing race, ethnicity, nationality, sexual orientation and religion in modern English usage.

I guess I am religiously bigotted.

Thing is that I have no "bigotry" towards race, ethnicity, nationality, or sexual orientation.

So since there used to be "white only" churches:

[Thor]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Read something about the history of the Soviet Union and Maoist China, then get back to me, mkay? You're just advertising your own complete ignorance of the facts.

Actually the hitler, communism = atheism points have been done over and over here on CP. To suggest these regimes did their crimes because of not believing in a diety is ludicrous.

Even further, the vast majority of Russians were religious under the rule of Stalin/Lenin and those leaders were even involved with the orthodox church.

But again if you want to see a state that is mostly non believers you have no examples really until these last 20yrs especially. The UK, Sweden, Denmark, Iceland, Norway, Holland, Germany, France, etc.. These are nations that non-belief is the majority and are nations ruled by democratic principles.

Any nations run under a dictatorship like North Korea are ideological theocracies, in which the leaders can often be mistaken for gods like in Japan during the rule of the emperors.

This is not defense for Traditionals comments, just wanted to clarify some facts here.

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by Thor

Actually the hitler, communism = atheism points have been done over and over here on CP. To suggest these regimes did their crimes because of not believing in a diety is ludicrous.

Even further, the vast majority of Russians were religious under the rule of Stalin/Lenin and those leaders were even involved with the orthodox church.

But again if you want to see a state that is mostly non believers you have no examples really until these last 20yrs especially. The UK, Sweden, Denmark, Iceland, Norway, Holland, Germany, France, etc.. These are nations that non-belief is the majority and are nations ruled by democratic principles.

Any nations run under a dictatorship like North Korea are ideological theocracies, in which the leaders can often be mistaken for gods like in Japan during the rule of the emperors.

This is not defense for Traditionals comments, just wanted to clarify some facts here.

Well its not like I couldn't have chosen to be more tactful, so for that I do owe Jay Random and anyone else I offended a sincere apology. I woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning.

[Ozy_Flame]

I've always enjoyed George Carlin's quote:


"Ah, the god excuse. The last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument. Anything we can't describe, it must have come from god."

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Thor

Actually the hitler, communism = atheism points have been done over and over here on CP. To suggest these regimes did their crimes because of not believing in a diety is ludicrous.

I didn't argue Hitler because Hitler did not give up his religious beliefs, if anything he could be considered non practicing. Stalin, Mao, the Kings and Castro all targeted religious institutions and surpressed them heavily. Most of those religious groups though still prevalent in those states were driven underground and still targeted by the state. Up until recently the MSS were actively penetrating religious services in China as they are seen as subversive elements.

Originally Posted by Thor

Even further, the vast majority of Russians were religious under the rule of Stalin/Lenin and those leaders were even involved with the orthodox church.

Maybe, but at the end of the day the heads of those states weren't, and they were the primary axmen.

Originally Posted by Thor

But again if you want to see a state that is mostly non believers you have no examples really until these last 20yrs especially. The UK, Sweden, Denmark, Iceland, Norway, Holland, Germany, France, etc.. These are nations that non-belief is the majority and are nations ruled by democratic principles.

But we're not really arguing that, there was an argument placed that Atheists had never murdered based around the concept of atheism, I strongly disagree with that.

Originally Posted by Thor

Any nations run under a dictatorship like North Korea are ideological theocracies, in which the leaders can often be mistaken for gods like in Japan during the rule of the emperors.

This is not defense for Traditionals comments, just wanted to clarify some facts here.

I disagree with the use of the term ideological theocracies in the most common sense. Because then it becomes a common argument that they believe themselves to be gods so it is a religion to a sense.

Kim Jung Il and his father may have marketed themselves as god figures, however at the end of the day they believe that there is no afterlife there is no god to dictate behavior and that their lifes work is just that a lifes work because when your dead there's nothing.

Castro stated very plainly that he does not believe, he didn't go on to state that I am god.

Stalin was deversive of the pope, the vatican and religious beliefs as a waste of time since you had to achieve everything in your lifespan because there was no great reward or punishment as there was no afterlife. He didn't present himself as a god figure, he did present himself as the saviour of the state but thats far different.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Look, I've been shutting up for years while asses like Richard Dawkins proclaimed to the world that atheists are intelligent and tolerant by definition, and religious believers are stupid and bigoted by definition.

I'd like to see where Dawkins or similar actually say that, so quote please.

What these guys actually say is so misrepresented by people who disagree with them that people who haven't read what they say would find it almost impossible to know what they actually are trying to communicate.

Originally Posted by peter12

Atheist: Religious people are dumb. Because I have read a few books by some of these new popular guys like Hitchens, Harris and Dawkins I am forever superior in universal knowledge than the knuckle-dragging theists.

Well if someone had read books by those they aren't drawing the idea that religious people are dumb from those books, it's their own dumb idea.

[photon]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

But we're not really arguing that, there was an argument placed that Atheists had never murdered based around the concept of atheism, I strongly disagree with that.

They didn't do it around the concept of atheism though... their reasons for removing religion was because religion is competition for the minds and control of the population, a threat to their power.

They weren't trying to "spread atheism", any more than taking the populations weapons away was them trying to spread "gun control" as an ideology; people with guns fight back, and people with ideas and an identity separate from the state fight back.

[Sluggo]

I debate with pictures :P

[troutman]

Originally Posted by photon

I'd like to see where Dawkins or similar actually say that, so quote please.

He did say this:

It is absolutely safe to say that, if you meet somebody who claims not to believe in evolution, that person is ignorant, stupid or insane (or wicked, but I'd rather not consider that).
-- Richard Dawkins,

[burn_this_city]

He also said in his book the belief in God is similar to believing in an imaginary teapot orbiting the sun between earth and mars. Basically that the probability of either being true were roughly the same.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by photon

They didn't do it around the concept of atheism though... their reasons for removing religion was because religion is competition for the minds and control of the population, a threat to their power.

They weren't trying to "spread atheism", any more than taking the populations weapons away was them trying to spread "gun control" as an ideology; people with guns fight back, and people with ideas and an identity separate from the state fight back.

You don't think that the Communists were not trying to spread a political system with atheism as one of its central tenants?

[photon]

Neither of those things say that religious believers are stupid and bigoted.