Obama Administration Announces Massive Piracy Crackdown

[rubecube]

Good luck trying to enforce this. As someone who used to work for an ISP, it's nearly impossible to track who actually did the downloading. I can't even count how many times a subscriber's usage would spike without their knowledge.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by Weiser Wonder

The stupidity on this issue continues.

Readily available music makes it easier for bands to acquire fans who then buy their merchandise, music and concert tickets. I look at how I became a fan of Radiohead. I received a couple of their albums of theirs by ripping my brothers CDs (technically illegal) and downloading some of their albums from other places. I fell in love with the band and have since purchased over a $1,000 worth of Radiohead goods. Not to mention, spending thousands of dollars to fly to San Francisco to see them, putting money into the US economy.

And, of course, there's the famous Radiohead model. Where they made money hand over fist by the "pay what you want" method. NIN has done this successfully as well I believe. Obviously, Radiohead is not a normal band. But any talented band isn't having too much trouble right now because of torrenting. I see innovative bands like Animal Collective and The National doing quite well and getting big despite how it is easy to attain all their music for free. People get passionate about these bands and start spending good money on them.

The Record Companies are flooding the market with ever worsening music. How many American Idol contestants get record deals and put out 2 or 3 albums? How many sensitive singer songwriters can they trot out to put out one hit single? Of course no one is going to get passionate about those POS artists. Just be happy about the cheap money you can make off hacks. You won't get more by cracking down on piracy.

What an idealistic, reactionary POS bill this is. Healthcare deliberations were like pulling teeth to get some pretty basic consumer protections. This bill will pass faster than you can chink two scotch glasses together. To make it all the worse, the thought crime provision is disgusting. I hope the courts have something to say about that.

Your arguments are just more of the "I don't like what they are selling, or how much they are selling it for, so I'll just take it arguments."

Should be left up to a band to decide if they think giving their recorded music away and making money on tour and merchandising is a better business model. Not for you as a consumer to decide that is the way they should make their money.

[Gobsgraham]

I also pirate music, movies, have a modded wii and like to hack just about anything I do get so I am not riding here just to yell at everyone.

I completely agree that this is stealing and should be illegal. Pirating costs other people money. I am just too cheap to stop doing it. Maybe some legal enforcement will be enough to get people like me to stop and put a few more $ in the pockets of the people that are creating it as their business.

Nothing in life is free. If you want something you should pay for it. I don't care if you can't find it at HMV or in Canada. It doesn't make it right to steal it. There is someone selling it legally somewhere. Again you are just too cheap to buy it and pay for shipping.

[Azure]

If there is someone selling it legally somewhere how does that help me if I don't have access to a music store in Sweden?

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Stang

What about those that buy their content and can't transfer it to an iPod or a computer because of digital locks? That would be like the Flames selling you a ticket and only letting you watch the game on a small TV screen on the concourse.

A CD that doesn't give you rights to copy to an ipod may be a crappy product, as is a flames concourse only ticket. The solution in either case is to not buy the product, not to sneak into the game anyway, or download the songs illegally.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

A CD that doesn't give you rights to copy to an ipod may be a crappy product, as is a flames concourse only ticket. The solution in either case is to not buy the product, not to sneak into the game anyway, or download the songs illegally.

Isn't that the same thing as pirating? It seems to me that is what people are already doing....

[llama64]

I got no issue with legislation targetting piracy - I pay for all my media consumption thank you very much.

However, I can't abide the penalty cost the industry is attaching to things. It does NOT cost the RIAA $1000 per downloaded song. That's just abusive and morally reprehensible.

But in the end, the only real power we have as consumers is to just not buy DRM laden garbage. We actually don't need to buy any of this stuff - afterall we're just talking about luxury goods here. There are bigger messes to clean up... (hint, look in the Gulf).

[Jimmy Stang]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

A CD that doesn't give you rights to copy to an ipod may be a crappy product, as is a flames concourse only ticket. The solution in either case is to not buy the product, not to sneak into the game anyway, or download the songs illegally.

(Disclaimer: general rant, not directed at you, nfotiu.)

DRM / digital locks in the music industry have mostly fizzled out, but all DVDs come with locks, region coding, etc. Breaking those locks for personal use would result in a lawsuit, even though you bought the DVD and are using it personally.

Of course, I'm referring to the proposed Canadian bill C-32, and that's admittedly veering off-topic from the original article. But, the media industries lobbying the government to do their dirty work is a common theme in both countries at the moment.

Downloading the movie for free isn't OK by any means, but neither is suing (or even having the power to sue) a paying customer who isn't pirating anything. That's what the future holds here in Canada. The industry claims that they need these protections, even though the only people it screws over is those who actually support the industry. Pirates will still pirate, but the poor sap could be taken to the cleaners for doing such evil things as buying a DVD and transferring it to another format for personal use.

I think that bill C-32 could be quite fair if the breaking of a digital lock was permitted for personal, educational, etc. use if there is no evidence or intention to distribute. Common sense. But the industry doesn't want that because they depend on you buying a new format every few years.

OK - I digress. Sorry for the rant. There's just something rotten happening between the industry and the government in Canada, and it bothers me a little. Obviously.

Edit: And, to preemptively slap my own wrist so the mods don't have to, there's a thread for discussing the Canadian implications:
http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=90719

[Gobsgraham]

Originally Posted by Azure

If there is someone selling it legally somewhere how does that help me if I don't have access to a music store in Sweden?

There's this new technology called the internet where you can buy anything you want while sitting in front of your computer.

Not having a store doesn't make it right to steal.

And I am not hacking just on you as I mentioned that I do this also. I am just hacking on anyone who says that they deserve to steal it because of (insert any of the dumb reasons above)!

[Barnes]

Copyright violation is not stealing. It is a civil matter where a rights holder may seek restitution for someone else violating the terms of use for something.

Tomorrow, I will be setting up for a family reunion and playing some music for the party in which I have not paid any licensing. I am breaking the terms of use for the works I will be playing but I am not stealing them. Downloading a movie or an album is not stealing, it's an unauthorized use of works covered by a copyright.

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

Your arguments are just more of the "I don't like what they are selling, or how much they are selling it for, so I'll just take it arguments."

No he isn't. Read the post again.

Should be left up to a band to decide if they think giving their recorded music away and making money on tour and merchandising is a better business model. Not for you as a consumer to decide that is the way they should make their money.

The "Radiohead" model is by far the best way to make money at music. Give the tracks away for free, if they're good they will spread like viruses through music fans and those fans will buy the packaged album with the cool liner notes and such, as well as shirts, concert tickets, etc etc etc. Hopefully the music makes it into advertising because that is where the real money is.

Give the tracks for non-commerical use away for free, and if the tracks are any good, money will come.

Its not like it still costs 20K to make production quality tracks.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

This post isn't very well thought through. First of all, even on a slow connection I could download a lot more than one album in an hour (actually most places offer 24 hours for a connection), secondly, I'd love to have you post my IP address in this thread, since you can look me up so easily. Third. Do open wifi connections not usually use 'rolling IP addresses' to hand out to clients on their network?

I can't because you are not using a service I host. I bet you it would take photon about 30 seconds if he needed to though.

In my post I said I could do it but it would be very illegal in many ways. Actually in hindsight it would involve some hacking and/or virus coding that I would need to outsource, but the point is it is physically possible. It would take me far to long to explain the exact steps but here it is in a nutshell

honey pot torrent --> IP address of store --> ISP --> Store address --> Store purchase records or video surveillance --> your name and home address.

or

honey pot client --> virus on your machine --> virus call home when connected to your home network --> IP address

Obviously something the first is very hard for a person to do, but technically possible because the information is out there, you just need to connect the dots. The second method is probably a lot easier in technical terms since I would bet there is some sort of kiddie script I could make the virus with.

As I said the government could establish laws that would make many of those steps (in the first method) legal and lot simpler. Including, but not limited to, laws requiring ISPs/stores offering wireless to log user information and to cooperate in these types of investigations.

Having an open network at home seems to be grounds for reasonable doubt as to who exactly downloaded the content.

If it actually became a criminal offense to download illegal content, the only time reasonable doubt would be a factor, then this might be relevant.

The problem with that is if you were being investigated because your internet connection was being used in this type of activity all the investigator would need to to is go to a judge and ask for a warrant to search your home for illegal material, a request that surely would be granted. If that search turned up nothing, then your wireless network being open would probably be a fantastic defense, so good in fact that the case would be dropped against you.

I do suspect that the purpose of pirating content is to HAVE it, unless you are the type of person who torrents a song every time he wants to listen to it once. I would also assume that their search of your home would turn up some illegally downloaded content, and make your defense of having an open network seem rather foolish.

Anyway, the point isn't how to bypass these laws or how to catch someone who is breaking them. The point is to make them so they are fair to both the producer and the consumer.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Gobsgraham

There's this new technology called the internet where you can buy anything you want while sitting in front of your computer.

Not having a store doesn't make it right to steal.

And I am not hacking just on you as I mentioned that I do this also. I am just hacking on anyone who says that they deserve to steal it because of (insert any of the dumb reasons above)!

That is exactly the point.

If you're like me and you're interested in 'fringe' artists from Europe and other countries that aren't exactly mainstream, the only way to get a hold of their records is through illegal sources.

Hell, that is the only way I can FIND them in the first place.

[grambo]

It's all the fault of the damn bit torrent, it's too easy for average users to pirate content now, if the agencies could kill the public trackers fast enough (and maybe clean up USENET), piracy wouldn't be such a problem.

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

Your arguments are just more of the "I don't like what they are selling, or how much they are selling it for, so I'll just take it arguments."

Should be left up to a band to decide if they think giving their recorded music away and making money on tour and merchandising is a better business model. Not for you as a consumer to decide that is the way they should make their money.

Anyone in a band knows how music works and doesn't care that you got their music for free. It's the culture. If a band is hanging out listening to music, and the guitarist says to the drummer, "Hey I really like this." The guitarist isn't going to respond with "That's great! Let's get you down to the record store right now and buy you a copy."

Bands sign record deals to get their music out there. Some people will buy the records, others will get it from their friends, and others download it. I think every band knows this. Nobody who makes a movie expects everyone who has seen the movie to have purchased a ticket or a DVD. That's ridiculous. Same goes for music.

There needs to be reason on both sides here. Obviously music can't be given away but trying to crack down on the way music is shared between people is taking it way too far. You are never going to get everyone who likes a band to individually buy the music.

The current laws are working well enough (except the obscene law suits record companies are throwing around). Most casual music consumers (the people who funnel the most money into the record companies) purchase songs through iTunes. It's usually either the hardcore computer or music people that download stuff. The computer people wouldn't buy the music otherwise, and the music people buy everything to do with music anyway.

[Azure]

Even if Photon has my IP address, what exactly is he going to do with it?

He can only find out what part of the country I'm from.

In order to get a name or any specific details he needs to contact my ISP. Who will tell him to screw off unless he has a court order saying that the information needs to be turned over.

And in order to get a court document you have to find a judge crazy enough to actually go along with this 'privacy' scheme.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by grambo

It's all the fault of the damn bit torrent, it's too easy for average users to pirate content now, if the agencies could kill the public trackers fast enough (and maybe clean up USENET), piracy wouldn't be such a problem.

I am in fact perfectly happy if they go after bittorrent and waste 10 years trying to shut it down.

[HotHotHeat]

Originally Posted by Azure

Even if Photon has my IP address, what exactly is he going to do with it?

He can only find out what part of the country I'm from.

In order to get a name or any specific details he needs to contact my ISP. Who will tell him to screw off unless he has a court order saying that the information needs to be turned over.

And in order to get a court document you have to find a judge crazy enough to actually go along with this 'privacy' scheme.

I think that's exactly what this law will enable companies to do, in certain situations.

Big business runs the government. I'm surprised it's taken so long.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Azure

Obviously through illegal sources.

Amazon doesn't have them, neither do any other online stores.

e-bay, amazon.com or any other source of purchasing a physical CD online does not have any of these CDs for sale? Could you contact a store that sells the physical copy and get them to mail them?

Or is this band that doesn't sell CDs at any store in the world? were they killed after they recorded their one demo song and it is their legacy to have this one song being torrented around the world?

You are really grasping at straws here.

Give me an example of one band.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Rathji

e-bay, amazon.com or any other source of purchasing a physical CD online does not have any of these CDs for sale? Could you contact a store that sells the physical copy and get them to mail them?

Or is this band that doesn't sell CDs at any store in the world? were they killed after they recorded their one demo song and it is their legacy to have this one song being torrented around the world?

You are really grasping at straws here.

Give me an example of one band.

I can't exactly remember names right now, but a while back I was searching for Texas 'music'...and I couldn't find a single place on the internet that sold the cds.

Granted, Amazon does pretty good, but I'm stuck buying CDs. What if I want 'one' song?