MacBook Pros Updated

[photon]

It's not that much more.. a 15" MacBook Pro is $2000, and I configured a Dell Studio 15 laptop with as close as I could get to the same for $1647 (though it's on sale down to $1378 now), and the Dell weighs more and doesn't have the same quality of construction.

Still it is higher, which is why I bought my MacBook Pro gently used.

[QuadCityImages]

Apple generally makes quality hardware. I don't necessarily mean specs-wise, as much as just well-designed, well built stuff. Even as an anti-Apple person, I readily admit that.

Some people are willing to pay a premium for quality. There's an argument for whether the increase in quality is worth the increase in price, but its all pretty subjective. I remember back when everyone was using AMD chips in their home built PCs, I paid the premium for Intel, even though the higher performance wasn't proportional with the higher price.

If you just need an adequate computer as cheap as possible, MacBooks probably aren't your best bet. It seems pretty obvious that they've never chased that demographic, and that's their choice. There's something to be said for not watering down brands.

[Rathji]

I am amazed at Apple.

They have managed to convince a rather large population segment to buy seriously high quality hardware at a slightly inflated price when all most of them do with it is surf the internet and play some music or use a word processor.

If nothing else they have a good business plan.

If you walk into a lecture hall full of English or Art majors at the University, there is a very large number of Macs. Walk into a Computer Science class and there is a much smaller percentage of Macs. Thinking of it like this, would you take computer advice from an English major over a Computer Science major?

I know it isn't a logical argument, but I get a kick out of it.

[FanIn80]

"I'm a Mac, and Windows 7 was my idea."

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by narbeZ

I don't understand of concept of apple computers.

Paying 2-3X more for a comparable PC doesn't really make sense to me. I honestly wonder how they stay competitive.

EDIT: Don't want to get in a Apple vs PC discussion.

If you didn't want to get in that discussion why bother posting a comment like that?

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by Rathji

I am amazed at Apple.

They have managed to convince a rather large population segment to buy seriously high quality hardware at a slightly inflated price when all most of them do with it is surf the internet and play some music or use a word processor.

If nothing else they have a good business plan.

If you walk into a lecture hall full of English or Art majors at the University, there is a very large number of Macs. Walk into a Computer Science class and there is a much smaller percentage of Macs. Thinking of it like this, would you take computer advice from an English major over a Computer Science major?

I know it isn't a logical argument, but I get a kick out of it.

Art majors I could see because of the multimedia and hypermedia user experience on the Macs.

You're comparing Apples (heh) and Oranges imo.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by photon

It's not that much more.. a 15" MacBook Pro is $2000, and I configured a Dell Studio 15 laptop with as close as I could get to the same for $1647 (though it's on sale down to $1378 now), and the Dell weighs more and doesn't have the same quality of construction.

Still it is higher, which is why I bought my MacBook Pro gently used.

The biggest problem with comparing prices like this is that anything above the base model has a ridiculous premium charged on it.

For example, I tried to spec a 17" MacBook to this: http://www.memoryexpress.com/Product...12(ME).aspx#NA

Just adding 4GB of RAM on the MacBook was $420 ($400 @ Dell). There's no way that would be the price if 8GB was standard on the MBP. Similarly, the difference between i7 and i5 is about $80, while upgrading the same on the MBP is $210. Using that in a price comparison would skew my results towards the PC - I actually started doing it and was getting far over $3000 for the Mac to even begin to compare to the $1589 ($1155 clearance) Asus. Anything you spec above base model on the Dell has a significant premium attached to it as well, which skews it towards the Mac.

I have no problem with people paying the premium for the build quality, battery life and user experience. I just don't like the claim of "Macs are just as cheap as PC's". Frankly, I don't like a lot of Apple's claims and the people that repeat them as if they were fact, but I've already been down that road on this forum before.

[FanIn80]

Telling me that an Asus is cheaper than a MacBook Pro is like telling me that a Honda Civic is cheaper than a Mercedes Benz. Are you going to tell me the sky is blue too? Why is it so difficult to understand that some people want to drive to work in one car, while other people want to drive in another?

[Hack&Lube]

Because I'd rather drive a Lamborghini when I can get it for cheaper than the Mercedes Benz at the overpriced fancy genius dealership...and uhh I want to be able to play Crysis on it too.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-695-_-Product

LOL, poor FanIn80, so up in arms.

[FanIn80]

Yes, it's all my fault again.

You guys are more obsessed with Apple than any of us are.

Edit: And why do you guys always yip about video games? First of all, I can play any game on the planet on my 2 year old iMac. Second of all... video games? Seriously? That's your main reason for choosing a computer?

[3 Justin 3]

So Apple computers are over-priced if you guys didn't know.

[3 Justin 3]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

Fine I'll bite.

How is it a waste? What if he is doing video editing?

Because he has a relatively new Toshiba laptop, who uses it maybe 30 minutes a day. He just wants it because it is Apple and is the "cool" thing to do.

Luckily I have convinced him not to waste money on a 3D television, hopefully I can hold him off a Macbook as well.

[Hack&Lube]

To be fair the new Macbooks with 2.66-2.8GHz i7s are insanely fast and it's hard to find PC laptops with those specs.

At the high end of the scale, the price diffential between PCs and Macs gets slimmer while the premium you are paying for Apple is more apparent on the lower-mid tiers.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Oh man, not this crap again.

Telling me that an Asus is cheaper than a MacBook Pro is like telling me that a Honda Civic is cheaper than a Mercedes Benz. Are you going to tell me the sky is blue too? Why is it so difficult to understand that some people want to drive to work in one car, while other people want to drive in another?

Just let it go.

Read the post. It was more of a post regarding price comparisons on both sides rather than claiming the Asus is cheaper. You'll notice I even said I started to make the comparison and then stopped because it didn't make sense. They are, but there's so many factors that cannot be compared.

Also, claiming that MBP's are like a Mercedes while all PC's are like Civics is seriously skewing your view as well. I'll even concede that MBP's have their advantages, but the difference is probably something like a Toyota Camry to the Lexus IS250. Makes sense to me. Camry usually has better specs than the IS250, while the IS250 is more expensive, looks sleeker, and has a sexy Lexus symbol on it. I also conceded that people will pay the premium and I have no issue with that, perhaps you missed that part of the post too.

However, going back to your analogy whether true or not, you are telling me that "Oh, I bought this Mercedes at the price of this Civic, you guys are idiots for buying a Civic when you could've bought a Mercedes at the same price." THAT is what is bothering me. Not the actual prices themselves.

[FanIn80]

You mean 2.66-3.33GHz i7s.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

You mean 2.66-3.33GHz i7s.

To be fair, that 3.33GHz speeds are 2.66GHz i7s under Turbo Boost which all i7s have but not all manufacters advertise by that spec.

Still, I couldn't find a PC notebook with that kind of spec easily right now whereas anybody can get one from the Apple online store easily.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Regorium

However, going back to your analogy whether true or not, you are telling me that "Oh, I bought this Mercedes at the price of this Civic, you guys are idiots for buying a Civic when you could've bought a Mercedes at the same price." THAT is what is bothering me. Not the actual prices themselves.

Nobody here said that a MacBook Pro was the same price as a clearance Asus. One guy made a (very accurate) comparison to a made-to-order Dell.

You see that's where this thing always falls apart. PC people just stare at spec sheets and take nothing else into consideration, so they find the cheapest piece of plastic with matching specs they can find, and use that as their argument. Meanwhile, Apple users know about all the other aspects of owning an Apple product (service, reliability, trust, craftsmanship, performance, etc) and use companies that provide a similar set of intangibles, like Dell, as their argument.

The common rule of thumb is that a product will always be as inexpensive as possible, when the intangibles are thrown out the window... but some people see those intangibles as being a very integral part of a purchase.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

To be fair, that 3.33GHz speeds are 2.66GHz i7s under Turbo Boost

Right, which means it's 2.66-3.33GHz not 2.66-2.8GHz (unless you meant something else by saying "2.66-2.8GHz").

[photon]

Originally Posted by Regorium

The biggest problem with comparing prices like this is that anything above the base model has a ridiculous premium charged on it.

Oh for sure, Apple is the worst of the bunch for charging for addons. Don't buy the extra stuff from Apple, buy it after market. Even the AppleCare you can often buy online and save a lot of $$ (or you used to be able to anyway).

I'll buy the SSD myself for $600 and keep the other $800 for myself thank you Apple.

Originally Posted by Regorium

Anything you spec above base model on the Dell has a significant premium attached to it as well, which skews it towards the Mac.

Or at least keeps up with the Mac a bit more than other brands. Though Dell has gotten better lately with their upgrades, not as horribly overpriced as they used to be, now just bad.

Originally Posted by Regorium

I have no problem with people paying the premium for the build quality, battery life and user experience. I just don't like the claim of "Macs are just as cheap as PC's". Frankly, I don't like a lot of Apple's claims and the people that repeat them as if they were fact, but I've already been down that road on this forum before.

The battery life thing I forgot to mention and that is a pretty big factor too.

But yeah, they're not cheap, it's just a matter of deciding what something is worth to you. Every other laptop I've owned, used, and worked on (used to be certified laptop tech for Compaq, HP, Toshiba, IBM) just feels cheap and flimsy compared to my MBP, that solidity is worth something to me.

I'd probably have to earn double what I do now though to even think about buying one new though.

[Yeah_Baby]

If Apple gets in sub forum do the haters promises stay the eff out. It is really getting tiresome.