House passes Senate health care bill

[flames_1987]

And like always the GOP acting with such class and dignity during this

[nik-]

Wow .... I see Fox News really does work on some people.

Congratulations USA on Health Care.

[La Flames Fan]

Originally Posted by PIMking

Taxity, tax, tax, tax...

Just curious, do you make over $200,000 personally. $250,000 as a family?*

If you fit that criteria, then yes, your taxes will go back to where they were before Bush gave tax cuts to the upper echelon of the US.

*Actually cited Fox News there.

[Montana Moe]

For those that say nothing will happen until 2014, that is simply untrue.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE62I4KD20100319

WITHIN THE FIRST YEAR OF ENACTMENT
*Insurance companies will be barred from dropping people from coverage when they get sick. Lifetime coverage limits will be eliminated and annual limits are to be restricted.
*Insurers will be barred from excluding children for coverage because of pre-existing conditions.
*Young adults will be able to stay on their parents' health plans until the age of 26. Many health plans currently drop dependents from coverage when they turn 19 or finish college.
*Uninsured adults with a pre-existing conditions will be able to obtain health coverage through a new program that will expire once new insurance exchanges begin operating in 2014.
*A temporary reinsurance program is created to help companies maintain health coverage for early retirees between the ages of 55 and 64. This also expires in 2014.
*Medicare drug beneficiaries who fall into the "doughnut hole" coverage gap will get a $250 rebate. The bill eventually closes that gap which currently begins after $2,700 is spent on drugs. Coverage starts again after $6,154 is spent.
*A tax credit becomes available for some small businesses to help provide coverage for workers.
*A 10 percent tax on indoor tanning services that use ultraviolet lamps goes into effect on July 1.

WHAT HAPPENS IN 2011
*Medicare provides 10 percent bonus payments to primary care physicians and general surgeons.
*Medicare beneficiaries will be able to get a free annual wellness visit and personalized prevention plan service. New health plans will be required to cover preventive services with little or no cost to patients.
*A new program under the Medicaid plan for the poor goes into effect in October that allows states to offer home and community based care for the disabled that might otherwise require institutional care.
*Payments to insurers offering Medicare Advantage services are frozen at 2010 levels. These payments are to be gradually reduced to bring them more in line with traditional Medicare.
*Employers are required to disclose the value of health benefits on employees' W-2 tax forms.
*An annual fee is imposed on pharmaceutical companies according to market share. The fee does not apply to companies with sales of $5 million or less.

WHAT HAPPENS IN 2012
*Physician payment reforms are implemented in Medicare to enhance primary care services and encourage doctors to form "accountable care organizations" to improve quality and efficiency of care.
*An incentive program is established in Medicare for acute care hospitals to improve quality outcomes.
*The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, which oversees the government programs, begin tracking hospital readmission rates and puts in place financial incentives to reduce preventable readmissions.

WHAT HAPPENS IN 2013
*A national pilot program is established for Medicare on payment bundling to encourage doctors, hospitals and other care providers to better coordinate patient care.
*The threshold for claiming medical expenses on itemized tax returns is raised to 10 percent from 7.5 percent of income. The threshold remains at 7.5 percent for the elderly through 2016.
*The Medicare payroll tax is raised to 2.35 percent from 1.45 percent for individuals earning more than $200,000 and married couples with incomes over $250,000. The tax is imposed on some investment income for that income group.
*A 2.9 percent excise tax in imposed on the sale of medical devices. Anything generally purchased at the retail level by the public is excluded from the tax.

WHAT HAPPENS IN 2014
*State health insurance exchanges for small businesses and individuals open.
*Most people will be required to obtain health insurance coverage or pay a fine if they don't. Healthcare tax credits become available to help people with incomes up to 400 percent of poverty purchase coverage on the exchange.
*Health plans no longer can exclude people from coverage due to pre-existing conditions.
*Employers with 50 or more workers who do not offer coverage face a fine of $2,000 for each employee if any worker receives subsidized insurance on the exchange. The first 30 employees aren't counted for the fine.
*Health insurance companies begin paying a fee based on their market share.

WHAT HAPPENS IN 2015
*Medicare creates a physician payment program aimed at rewarding quality of care rather than volume of services.

WHAT HAPPENS IN 2018
*An excise tax on high cost employer-provided plans is imposed. The first $27,500 of a family plan and $10,200 for individual coverage is exempt from the tax. Higher levels are set for plans covering retirees and people in high risk professions.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by pylon

Good thing you don't live in Canada then. Our end tax rate, after all is said and done is much higher than the US (I believe double, someone correct me if I'm wrong), but I will gladly forfeit the money knowing if I get cancer, or some other terminal malady, I will have a fighting chance, and my HMO won't tell me to eat s#%t because I forgot to disclose a broken arm when I was 12 years old or a wart on my foot when I was 9.

Not even close. The disparity in taxes paid between Canada and the USA is greatly exaggerated. Going by % of GDP, the USA's various levels of government bring in tax revenue at a rate of 27% compared to Canada which is about 32%. If you factor in the massive amounts of private money spent on health care in the USA (the equivalent of which in Canada is paid through tax revenues) the disparity largely disappears. Health care costs in the USA are about 15% of GDP and much of that is funded privately. That more than eats up any tax savings in the USA.

Now these are based on national numbers, so there are some places with lower tax burdens (states with little or no state income or sales tax) but there are also many states with much higher tax burdens than Canada.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by opendoor

Not even close. The disparity in taxes paid between Canada and the USA is greatly exaggerated. Going by % of GDP, the USA's various levels of government bring in tax revenue at a rate of 27% compared to Canada which is about 32%. If you factor in the massive amounts of private money spent on health care in the USA (the equivalent of which in Canada is paid through tax revenues) the disparity largely disappears. Health care costs in the USA are about 15% of GDP and much of that is funded privately. That more than eats up any tax savings in the USA.

Now these are based on national numbers, so there are some places with lower tax burdens (states with little or no state income or sales tax) but there are also many states with much higher tax burdens than Canada.

This is absolutely true. A while back I posted an apples-to-apples comparison, which must include average health insurance costs (since Canadians pay for that with taxes). I'll spare you the gory details, but here's the gist:

For a family of two making 55,000 dollars a year, the tax burden in Canada is significantly lower. I didn't select that number arbitrarily; that's the median household income in the U.S.

Mind you, this bill won't solve that problem. People still have to buy their own health insurance. But it would be nice if we all stopped pretending that Canadians are taxed to death and Americans aren't.

[Devils'Advocate]

This bill is a watered down piece of crap....

“We compromised on [a] single payer [health care system] by backing a public option, and now we are being asked to compromise the public option with negotiated rates. In conference, we will likely be asked to compromise negotiated rates with a trigger. In each and every step of the health care debate, the insurance companies have won. If they get hundreds of billions of dollars in new taxpayer subsidies, they get to raise their premiums, and increase their co-pays and deductibles, while the public is forced to pay for private insurance, then the insurance companies win big. If this is the best we can do, then it is time to ask ourselves whether the two-party system is truly capable of representing the American people or whether the system has been so compromised by special interests that we can’t even protect the health of our own people,"

- Kucinich

But it wasn't Obama that wanted to water down the bill. Don't say this bill was "rammed down the throats of the American people" or that this bill was "forced through". There has been significant negotiating and attempts to work with the Republicans and blue dog Democrats, negotiating that has destroyed a good bill and made it a POS. And that there was Obama's big mistake. He stupidly and naively assumed that Washington was a functioning democracy where compromises could be worked out between the various parties and interests. He should have handled this like Bush did... hammer everything through the way you want when you want. Trying to negotiate with the Republicans has proven absolutely impossible.

*HOWEVER*, that said, this POS bill is 1000 times better than what is existing now. And I hope that it is the first step in many. For example, Harry Reid has suggested having a vote to add the public option at a later date.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by PIMking

I Think a socialized system is a good thing just not this system. Enough countries around the world have it. We should be able to take a look and tweak the system for the better.

I've gotta say, that's a new one. For a guy that typically sides with the Tea Party side of things to say this is a terrible, awful bill because "it's not socialist ENOUGH", I'm taken aback.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by flip

I'm sure someone is willing to put in the effort to actually explain it in detail.

Since I'm not, I'll just quote part of the Herald article and that'll give you a general idea for now.

Not sure who can. No one has read the bill that was just passed. Especially the people voting for it. As nice it is that people are covered I would also say that a fool votes for something that he/she has not read.

I would be very wary of this bill.

[Sluggo]

I had the "pleasure" of attending a new employee orientation down in the States and what the company was offering for insurance was so good peoples "too good to be true" alarms went off. In Canada this would of taken 10 minutes to present and maybe a couple of generic questions from the new employees would be asked but down there it dragged on for two hours. People were picking apart the one page summary and asking very specific questions about premiums, pre-existing conditions, etc. I soon realized most of the questions were related to some family member or friend that was screwed over by a insurance provider and all I could think was thank god I live and work in Canada. I then glanced at the presenter who had a heavy British accent and she had a exacerbated and at the same time relieved look on her face and I knew she was thinking almost the exact same thing except replace Canada with Great Britain.

Thankfully, the United States has taken this baby step down the right path today but don't think the private medical industry in the States is going to back down without another monumental fight. I fear they will take the same road as the credit card companies when faced with tightened regulations; punish the client by finding loopholes to charge more and hope the hate sticks to the politicians that passed it.

[HotHotHeat]

Priceless:

http://video.foxnews.com/v/4118241/b...0.000000:b0:z5

[Rockin' Flames]

This bill puts the doctors in between a rock and a hard spot. If I understand it correctly the doctors that are deemed by the government to be running tests that are unnecessary they will be fined. However, if a doctor doesn't practice defensive medicine they will get sued by a lawyer looking to pad their pockets because something may have been missed.

To bad Obama would hear nothing of adding tort reform to this bill, but he was more interested in protecting his lawyer buddies.

[amorak]

Originally Posted by PIMking

Just what I want, A government that approved two wars in Afghanistan and Iraq to be in control if I can have a heart transplant.

A politician is going to have nothing to do with your medical care - It's alarmist like yourself, who have no actual understanding of what a plan entails, that cause the problems that are pushing America down the path of Russianesque irrelevance - Dinosaur meet Dinosaur.

A doctor will be in charge of deciding if you get a heart transplant - The only difference is, with the bill your country has passed, now he can decide and not some insurance actuary who's over his 'payout limit' for the month.

[amorak]

Originally Posted by Rockin' Flames

This bill puts the doctors in between a rock and a hard spot. If I understand it correctly the doctors that are deemed by the government to be running tests that are unnecessary they will be fined. However, if a doctor doesn't practice defensive medicine they will get sued by a lawyer looking to pad their pockets because something may have been missed.

To bad Obama would hear nothing of adding tort reform to this bill, but he was more interested in protecting his lawyer buddies.

Complete crap - Provide one bit of actual proof of this bull.

[mykalberta]

He said he would get it done and he got it done.

Now I assume the Senate needs to pass this.

Strange that the bill says it "forces" everyone to buy insurance. I guess that is the American way now.

[flames_1987]

Originally Posted by Rockin' Flames

This bill puts the doctors in between a rock and a hard spot. If I understand it correctly the doctors that are deemed by the government to be running tests that are unnecessary they will be fined. However, if a doctor doesn't practice defensive medicine they will get sued by a lawyer looking to pad their pockets because something may have been missed.

To bad Obama would hear nothing of adding tort reform to this bill, but he was more interested in protecting his lawyer buddies.

It's been proven that Tort reform would've done little to change anything on this bill. Thanks for the laugh with everything else

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by PIMking

Just what I want, A government that approved two wars in Afghanistan and Iraq to be in control if I can have a heart transplant.

This is the most ######ed argument I've ever heard, and just to be clear, you're not even close to being the first person to make the argument about some government beurocrat making decisions about what treatments you can receive.

You're worried that a government official is going to decide what treatment you can receive? Well how is that worse than an insurance company exec deciding?

Seriously, here in communist Canada it's doctors that make those decisions, not our MPs. Meanwhile insurance companies, up until now, were willing and able, to take people's money for years, and then when they need it, to deny coverage becasue it was a pre-existing condition.
Why anyone would think that's a fair system is beyond me.

[Locke]

The best part is that theres no deathcamps, the whole country is the death camp of the uninsured!!

[amorak]

America is one of the only places in the world where you can find people defending their opinion to the determent of all others, when all they know about their view point (and the other side's) is a CNN or FOX News soundbyte...

[valo403]

Originally Posted by amorak

America is one of the only places in the world where you can find people defending their opinion to the determent of all others, when all they know about their view point (and the other side's) is a CNN or FOX News soundbyte...

Except for the fact that it happens everywhere, just replace FOX/CNN with whichever politically slanted news source is present in the particular country.