Learning a second language, French.

[Devils'Advocate]

When taking french, I was given a book called "How to be a more Successful Language Learner" which gave some great advice. I checked it on Amazon and it is ridiculously expensive, but if you can find it at the library I'd recommend it.

When I was learning french, I took a journal with me to class. Half the journal was for nouns, half for verbs. Nouns were written with their genders, verbs were written with all conjugations.... and I mean ALL conjugations... past, present, future, near future, near perfect, etc..

My teachers always recommended watching french TV or listening to french radio and I thought that was the most foolish thing... if you don't understand the words, they are not going to magically come to you. The only thing it EVER did for me was teach me a few of the "neighbor" words - words that are the same in English and French. Though watching a film with the french subtitles on was good for picking up a few words.

[icarus]

Three unbeatable tips:

1. Get Rosetta Stone. I haven't used it for French, but I've used it for Russian and it is quite engaging. I really like it because it doesn't feel like hard work and it mixes it up a lot. I suggest getting an online subscription rather than shelling out for the CDs.

2. Download some French language podcasts for your skill level and listen to them when you go for a run or go to work. It doesn't matter if you don't understand them, just try to pick up on as many words as you can.

3. Get a book in French and work your way through it with a mini French-English dictionary on hand. I'm currently working through Solzhenitsyn in French but if you are just beginning pick up a children's book or something like Harry Potter if you're a little further along. The verbs will catch you out at first but as long as you recognise the word then the tense will kind of fall into place.

Do those three things and you're well on your way. The fourth tip is reserved for when you feel more comfortable and that is practice speaking with someone fluent.

[Cactus Jack]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

What would you say is closer? Portuguese and Spanish or Catalan and Spanish?

Originally Posted by Locke

I'm no expert, but I'd say Portuguese. My Spanish aint bad, but when I was in Europe I was hanging around with a group of Catalonians and I couldnt make out a damned thing.

I don't understand any Catalan when I hear someone speaking it. It's not like Castillian (Spanish) at all, Portuguese and Spanish are nearly identical.

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

I spent a July in Montreal learning French at the University of Montreal from scratch as part of a paid program by the Quebec government (even gave us room and board in residence and a couple hundred bucks for food) but sadly, since it was Montreal, I drifted to speaking English all the time and partying. I did pick up a lot of basic concepts.

Originally Posted by amorak

All I know is you need to use it or lose it... Or else you'll end up in Paris, in a cafe, trying to remember what a lemon is again mid-sentence while ordering and call it a "lee-mon" instead of citron

I did the same program a years ago and freaking loved it! Montreal is so awesome, all of Canada would be much more interesting if it were like Montreal. Although I partied daily, frequented the gentlemen's clubs and spoke English most of the time while having a blast, I found that after nearly 2 months there my French became pretty good. However, like Amorak said, if you don't use it you lose it. A few years later and I know no one here that speaks French so it's virtually gone. Pity.

[JerzeeGirl]

One other thing - my old French teachers back in high school used to make us watch French cartoons on occasion as they are much easier to follow than serious acting because they are pretty simple script-wise tend to feature an over-emphasized manner of speaking (ie. a few steps above baby-talk).

[Flame Of Liberty]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

When taking french, I was given a book called "How to be a more Successful Language Learner" which gave some great advice. I checked it on Amazon and it is ridiculously expensive, but if you can find it at the library I'd recommend it.

When I was learning french, I took a journal with me to class. Half the journal was for nouns, half for verbs. Nouns were written with their genders, verbs were written with all conjugations.... and I mean ALL conjugations... past, present, future, near future, near perfect, etc..

My teachers always recommended watching french TV or listening to french radio and I thought that was the most foolish thing... if you don't understand the words, they are not going to magically come to you. The only thing it EVER did for me was teach me a few of the "neighbor" words - words that are the same in English and French. Though watching a film with the french subtitles on was good for picking up a few words.

I have to disagree with you here. I'm still learning English as my 4th language and I gotta say listening to radio/TV helped a lot. And I don't mean you have sit down and watch and try to understand some french movie. No. Just keep the TV on as a sound background as you do other things around the house, cook, clean, whatever. The words don't magically come to you but you will pick up pronunciation and the way people talk. I used to listen to CNBC talking heads babbling away and I think it's a good way to pick up pronunciation for "bigger" words. Of course you need to be at least intermediate for this to be really useful to you.

Also watching movies/tv shows with french subtitles helps. Don't use english subtitles. Start easy, cartoons, shows for kids and whatnot.

[Flamesguy_SJ]

Something I always found helpful for learning pronunciation in French was listening to French music. There are a lot of little nuances that you can pick up from listening to it if you don't really have a native-speaker to converse with.

Another thing, once your vocabulary improves a little bit, is to watch a DVD of a movie you already know and like, but switch the audio to French. If it's too fast for you, maybe turn the French subtitles on too. But I think it's important to pick a movie that you know, because then you can associate the French words with ideas and concepts you're familiar with.

Also, to touch a little more on the music thing, I had three verb conjugations in middle school that the class set to music: aller, avoir, etre. Aller and avoir were sung to the tune of "Frere Jacques" and etre was the "Mexican Hat Dance".

I hope some of that helps. I don't really know the best way to explain how to learn a language, it all just kind of came naturally to me. But those are some of the things I used to do to improve my fluency and work on vocabulary and pronunciation

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Flame Of Liberty

I have to disagree with you here. I'm still learning English as my 4th language and I gotta say listening to radio/TV helped a lot. And I don't mean you have sit down and watch and try to understand some french movie. No. Just keep the TV on as a sound background as you do other things around the house, cook, clean, whatever. The words don't magically come to you but you will pick up pronunciation and the way people talk. I used to listen to CNBC talking heads babbling away and I think it's a good way to pick up pronunciation for "bigger" words. Of course you need to be at least intermediate for this to be really useful to you.

Also watching movies/tv shows with french subtitles helps. Don't use english subtitles. Start easy, cartoons, shows for kids and whatnot.

I agree. I found it useful as well. Movies also expose you to figures of speech that may not make sense on their own, but make sense in certain contexts.

[Machiavelli]

I'll fourth (or third; I've lost track) the subtitles things; it's very effective, and entertaining.

[GreenLantern]

Ok so I picked up Rosetta Stone french levels 1, 2 and 3.

I am into lesson one and wow is there ever a lot of content. I am not sure how fast I should be moving, I think there is a tool to set your pace with I need to explore that more. So far I am very impressed, they start out very basic and just when you start going ok ok boring.. they switch up the pace and it brings you right back in.

It is really helpful for learning what things are in French, but I am hoping as I progress more it helps me formulate sentences and better explanations of words like Des and Et ... I am able to draw conclusions on what they mean based on the context in which it is used (this is the fundamental learning process for RS, I understand that) but it would be nice to have some clear cut definitions. The program does recommend accenting the process with books and audio, which everyone else here said as well. So I think I might pick up French for Dummies or French Demystified just to get the basics down and apply them as I move forward in the program.

Watching French TV it moves so fast, but I can pick out at least some of what they are talking about now.. so its a start!

Thanks again to everyone in this thread for your help and everyone who PMed me as well.

[amorak]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

Ok so I picked up Rosetta Stone french levels 1, 2 and 3.

I am into lesson one and wow is there ever a lot of content. I am not sure how fast I should be moving, I think there is a tool to set your pace with I need to explore that more. So far I am very impressed, they start out very basic and just when you start going ok ok boring.. they switch up the pace and it brings you right back in.

It is really helpful for learning what things are in French, but I am hoping as I progress more it helps me formulate sentences and better explanations of words like Des and Et ... I am able to draw conclusions on what they mean based on the context in which it is used (this is the fundamental learning process for RS, I understand that) but it would be nice to have some clear cut definitions. The program does recommend accenting the process with books and audio, which everyone else here said as well. So I think I might pick up French for Dummies or French Demystified just to get the basics down and apply them as I move forward in the program.

Watching French TV it moves so fast, but I can pick out at least some of what they are talking about now.. so its a start!

Thanks again to everyone in this thread for your help and everyone who PMed me as well.

Des = "The" or "of the"

et = "and"

[Flame Of Liberty]

Listen to Kells. La Sphere is a good start.

[GreenLantern]

Originally Posted by amorak

Des = "The" or "of the"

et = "and"

Right, thank you for that. What I meant was, I can figure out what they mean with google, but i'd like for Rosetta to better explain it to me so I don't have to use an outside source.

But at the same time I was able to guess what it meant based on the context it was used, and I was right.. but I don't like guessing when it comes to learning

[amorak]

I don't know that you'll get a better explanation of "and" through Rosetta...

[selinis]

Originally Posted by Buzzard

It's funny. I work with a Romanian and he told me how similar it is to Italian. But when he speaks it though, it sounds very eastern European, much more like a Hungarian speaker I know than any Italians I've heard.

I bet your romanian co-worker has been lived in Transylvania for his whole life.

Anyhow, I studied Latin in grade 7. English and French for 8 years. Mandatory in school. As a romanian language speaker I find these languages VERY similar (grammar especially): Italian, French, Spanish and Romanian. I find Portuguese very hard to understand. I love English because grammar is WAY easier than all above.

Bottom line, the best time in one's lifetime to learn a second, third,etc language is in early years (age 4 to 18) imo. It's all about memory and "cementing" the new things through excercise. A lot of exercise. I dont want to discourage anyone 18+ by saying that, but the effort to be put in learning a new language is definetly bigger. Hearing the language all the time makes things easier, of course, but you have to go over the grammar first. "je me souviens" won't make much sense if you dont know what tense is that! .
Found the link below interesting:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/20/science/20lang.html

regards,
selinis

[TSXCman]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

The thread says it all, I want to learn French. I have literally no experience in the subject, but there are a lot of jobs in my line of work that require you to be bi lingual. Learning this language would open a lot of doors for me career wise.

I understand how terribly difficult it is to learn a second language, but my question do you guys is what is the first step?

Is it learning the top 100 words then enrolling in a course? Are there websites where you can talk into your mic and it will help you with pronunciation?

Learning french for dummies a good place to figure out how bad I am at it?

Your best bet is prolly dropping it for spanish, youll puke less in your mouth when speakin/listening