10-22-2010, 11:37 AM
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#41
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Franchise Player
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http://www.calgarysun.com/news/canad.../15791531.html
Watched this four minute excerpt of the Williams interrogation when it finally dawned on him that he was busted. Pretty interesting (to me at least).
Now consider how that might have been different if the SCC had decided to allow counsel to be present at all times during interrogations...
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10-22-2010, 11:41 AM
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#42
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Franchise Player
Join Date: May 2004
Location: YSJ (1979-2002) -> YYC (2002-2022) -> YVR (2022-present)
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Quote:
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Now consider how that might have been different if the SCC had decided to allow counsel to be present at all times during interrogations...
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The outcome wouldn't have been different at all. Before he even started questioning, the interviewing officer asked Williams if he wanted a lawyer present, and he declined. At any time Williams could have stopped answering questions and requested access to a lawyer, but he never opted to exercise that right.
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10-22-2010, 11:46 AM
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#43
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarchHare
The outcome wouldn't have been different at all. Before he even started questioning, the interviewing officer asked Williams if he wanted a lawyer present, and he declined. At any time Williams could have stopped answering questions and requested access to a lawyer, but he never opted to exercise that right.
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Did the officer ask if he wanted a lawyer present or if he wanted to speak to a lawyer?
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10-22-2010, 11:53 AM
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#44
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Franchise Player
Join Date: May 2004
Location: YSJ (1979-2002) -> YYC (2002-2022) -> YVR (2022-present)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredr123
Did the officer ask if he wanted a lawyer present or if he wanted to speak to a lawyer?
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Quote:
Det.-Sgt. Smyth tells Williams his rights, as he is required to, and notes that the door is not locked and he can leave at any time. He is also told that at any time he can call a lawyer.
“Do you have your own lawyer?”
“I have a realty lawyer,” Williams says, with a bit of a chuckle.
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http://www.nationalpost.com/From+con...461/story.html
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10-22-2010, 11:56 AM
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#45
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Now world wide!
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A good example of typical police interrogation practices, notably not involving any threats, coercion, or physical force.
With reference back to the recent SCC discussion, this is exactly how police interrogation techniques can separate the guilty from the innocent. The odds of a false confession in these circumstances is very very low.
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10-22-2010, 12:04 PM
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#46
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Franchise Player
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What a story this is. Kudos to the OPP for their work here. A massive vehicle canvass led them to find his vehicle due to tire tread, and then a ten hour interrogation got him to confess. Just great work.
__________________
But living an honest life - for that you need the truth. That's the other thing I learned that day, that the truth, however shocking or uncomfortable, leads to liberation and dignity. -Ricky Gervais
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10-22-2010, 03:23 PM
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#47
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Scoring Winger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredr123
http://www.calgarysun.com/news/canad.../15791531.html
Watched this four minute excerpt of the Williams interrogation when it finally dawned on him that he was busted. Pretty interesting (to me at least).
Now consider how that might have been different if the SCC had decided to allow counsel to be present at all times during interrogations...
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This was way before the SCC ruling. And as others have mentioned he was asked if he'd like a lawyer and he declined.
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10-22-2010, 03:42 PM
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#48
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarchHare
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flylock shox
A good example of typical police interrogation practices, notably not involving any threats, coercion, or physical force.
With reference back to the recent SCC discussion, this is exactly how police interrogation techniques can separate the guilty from the innocent. The odds of a false confession in these circumstances is very very low.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramsayfarian
This was way before the SCC ruling. And as others have mentioned he was asked if he'd like a lawyer and he declined.
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He was asked if he'd like to speak to a lawyer, not have one present. My point, and I really regret making it now, was that having a lawyer present may have changed the course of the interrogation. The result we have today may not have been achieved. Heck, the whole thing could have been drug out over many years in the court system. Maybe no conviction at all. Total speculation.
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10-22-2010, 03:53 PM
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#49
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Scoring Winger
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I read an article on this animal. If I was in the court room and heard what was going on and it was my sister, GF, daughter, wife I would have pounded this sick guys head in. Period.
I'm not even related to the case and I feel sick.
Public death should be in place for people like this. If so, I'd want a front row seat.
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10-22-2010, 04:31 PM
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#50
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredr123
He was asked if he'd like to speak to a lawyer, not have one present. My point, and I really regret making it now, was that having a lawyer present may have changed the course of the interrogation. The result we have today may not have been achieved. Heck, the whole thing could have been drug out over many years in the court system. Maybe no conviction at all. Total speculation.
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Did you read the whole interrogation transcript? 300 pages, but really not that much to read. Fascinating. The officer just kept building up on one front, then left it hanging. He moved on to another front, then backed off. I am not familiar with this sort of thing outside of TV, but it seemed flawless.
He detailed the tire evidence slowly and firmly, then moved on to something else just short of an accusation.
Just built up a web all around him.
Near then end, the officer just said we both know it was your vehicle at her house, your footprints outside her window, and when the lab results come back we will find your DNA.
He was very helpful and specific with details after that breaking point.
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10-22-2010, 08:11 PM
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#51
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Guest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredr123
He was asked if he'd like to speak to a lawyer, not have one present. My point, and I really regret making it now, was that having a lawyer present may have changed the course of the interrogation. The result we have today may not have been achieved. Heck, the whole thing could have been drug out over many years in the court system. Maybe no conviction at all. Total speculation.
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For the record, in Canada, it is not a 'right' under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms to have a lawyer present. You can contact one and seek advice at any point-hell you can do it as many times as you want too during an interview.
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10-22-2010, 08:55 PM
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#52
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Powerplay Quarterback
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What are the chances of parole after 25 years? I'm not familiar with the justice system and it makes me a bit sick he could be free in 25 years. He should be locked up until he dies.
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10-22-2010, 09:23 PM
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#53
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Norm!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake
What are the chances of parole after 25 years? I'm not familiar with the justice system and it makes me a bit sick he could be free in 25 years. He should be locked up until he dies.
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0 no chance.
Thats why it was good that they didn't go for the indefinite dangerous offender tag where his review would come after 7 years and then every 3 years after that.
Besides he's 47 in 25 years he'll be 72, I doubt he'll live long enough to see freedom again.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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10-22-2010, 09:54 PM
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#54
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Powerplay Quarterback
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Your Mother's Place.
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The local media here has been filled with stories about this all week. Really disgusting and disturbing to be quite honest.
However, I will add to the chorus that is praising the job that the interrogator did. That man did a truly brilliant job!
I will be happy to see the end of this sick, sick chapter.
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10-22-2010, 11:37 PM
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#55
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Norm!
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This one will be for both the police textbooks, but I would assume they're going to try to pick Williams brain dry. He's unique in terms of serial killers and to me a lot like Ted Bundy. He truly lead a double life, and there were no outward signs that he was a monster.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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10-25-2010, 02:29 PM
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#56
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Now world wide!
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Thought this was an interesting little piece about the general conditions Mr. Williams will be living in in Disneyland:
Quote:
Prisoners in the segregation unit get an hour outside their cell for exercise. For the other 23 hours a day, they are locked in their cells. They can watch television — if they buy a television. They can read and have writing materials. But there's no access to computers or the Internet.
Prisoners cannot receive telephone calls but can make them to people on an authorized call list, if they pay for the calls.
Offenders can hug and touch approved visitors, even have conjugal visits with spouses.
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The cells themselves are apparently about 3 meters square, and prisoners spend 23 hours a day in them.
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10-25-2010, 02:42 PM
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#57
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Norm!
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Yup, as much as we talk about the luxury of prisons, there would be no greater hell then living the next 25 years in solidary.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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10-27-2010, 11:15 AM
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#58
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Scoring Winger
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: St. Albert
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The Fifth Estate...
I watched the CBC's "Fifth Estate" last night. They ran a condensed version of the video from the "interview", complete with analysis by various experts. Wow! Well worth watching for anyone interested in such a subject.
An amazing study in psychology. These tapes will be studied in the English speaking law enforcement community for years to come. A textbook example of how to conduct such a procedure.
Huge kudo's to the OPP on this one.
That's all,
Ron
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10-27-2010, 02:21 PM
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#59
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Franchise Player
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The latest macleans has a lengthy article discussing some of his crimes, including the two murders. Truly a despicable person and story. Thank god they caught him when they did as it sounds like he would've kept going.
__________________
But living an honest life - for that you need the truth. That's the other thing I learned that day, that the truth, however shocking or uncomfortable, leads to liberation and dignity. -Ricky Gervais
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10-27-2010, 02:35 PM
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#60
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Norm!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bindair Dundat
I watched the CBC's "Fifth Estate" last night. They ran a condensed version of the video from the "interview", complete with analysis by various experts. Wow! Well worth watching for anyone interested in such a subject.
An amazing study in psychology. These tapes will be studied in the English speaking law enforcement community for years to come. A textbook example of how to conduct such a procedure.
Huge kudo's to the OPP on this one.
That's all,
Ron
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If you ever want to read about a facinating interrogation of a serial killer, I think the name of the book is hunting the devil and its about the capture and confession of Andrei Chikitillo (sp?) who was truly a monster.
The inspector in charge of the investigation didn't follow the usual soviet techniques at the time, but just talked to the man.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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