Iranians Sieze Iraqi Oil Field

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by T@T

Your quite the history buff!
He played "russian" roulette with the Russians in Cuba and sent them packing.

One would think since the earth is only 6000 years old you would know a little of history! Much like Obama's inheritance of the Iraq problems Kennedy inherited Vietnam from Eisenhower, Eisenhower was the first to send US military to South Vietnam and Kennedy followed suit. But you should know it was Lyndon Johnson who sent most of the troops after Kennedys death.

Eisenhower ended the Korean war and from what I understand only sent aid and military advisers into Vietnam. It was France's war. Kennedy made it a US war. Kennedy was hardly what you would call a dove. Obama on the other hand has won the Nobel peace prize.

Originally Posted by T@T

He also slammed them to the US people,

Yes well he can slam me too while feeding me billions of tax payer dollars. I can take the abuse!

Originally Posted by T@T

He's also the first one to stand up to the private health care people, something that the last 5 presidents only hinted at but never had the balls in the end...we'll see how this shakes out.

It will shake out to a huge increase in taxes every American has to pay.

[FlamesAddiction]

The problem with Obama is that he is a politician like any other. He made a promise to wind up the Iraq occupation and if he has to change that plan, you know his rivals are going to all him on it regardless of whether the circumstances have changed. Like all politicians, he will probably make a decision based on what will have the smallest amount of political fallout. He either ignores this and gets called "weak", or he asserts U.S. power in the region more and looks like a liar.

This is the problem with first term presidents. They tend to be out for themselves. Then again, 2nd term presidents tend to do whatever they want regardless of optics (which can also be bad).

[Vulcan]

It will shake out to a huge increase in taxes every American has to pay.

An increase in taxes should happen but it would be happening anyways after the Bush cockups put the US and most of the western world behind the 8 ball. Nice shifting of the blame though, did you get that one from Faux News?

[nickerjones]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

An increase in taxes should happen but it would be happening anyways after the Bush cockups put the US and most of the western world behind the 8 ball. Nice shifting of the blame though, did you get that one from Faux News?

ahhh all the dems seem to want to blame Bush for putting us behind the 8 ball.... No one mentions Clinton starting the whole housing and banking snafus by allowing Banks to lend out 110% of their assets up from I believe 80 or 85%. Banks were now lending more and more money that they didnt have , which contributed to the housing boom as a lot of the loans were mortgages. SO lets not be a bunch of Dems who want to pass the blame to the latest Republican president and not take any credit for contributing to this crisis as well.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

An increase in taxes should happen but it would be happening anyways after the Bush cockups put the US and most of the western world behind the 8 ball. Nice shifting of the blame though, did you get that one from Faux News?

Well if tax increases were going happen anyway than health care proposal will make those increases unbearable.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by nickerjones

ahhh all the dems seem to want to blame Bush for putting us behind the 8 ball.... No one mentions Clinton starting the whole housing and banking snafus by allowing Banks to lend out 110% of their assets up from I believe 80 or 85%. Banks were now lending more and more money that they didnt have , which contributed to the housing boom as a lot of the loans were mortgages. SO lets not be a bunch of Dems who want to pass the blame to the latest Republican president and not take any credit for contributing to this crisis as well.

Yeah Clinton deserves the blame too but Bush was completely lax in continuing the bad policy. In other words he did nothing but watch the economy go down the toilet.

I just find it outrageous that Obama gets the blame for the current economic mess and part of the problem is the current Health Care situation which in the long run, with a new health care plan, should turn out better financially for the US. Right now I believe the USA has the most expensive health care in the world so whether you are paying for it in taxes or privately, you are still paying.

[HPLovecraft]

Uh, are people forgetting Obama's recent commitment and plan to send a sh*t load more troops to Afghanistan? He's taken ownership of that war now. It's not as if he's trying to ride the fence on it. It's proven to be an unpopular plan, but he's going through with it. It seems to me, to this point in his short-term presidency, that he's shown he has the chutzpah to do what needs to be done more so than proving he won't do what the issue calls for. People calling him "soft" on issues are still espousing the company line used during the election. Until he actually shows this softness, and no, winning a Nobel Peace Prize that he himself doesn't believe he deserves doesn't count, it's ridiculous to try and "call" him on it.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

Eisenhower ended the Korean war and from what I understand only sent aid and military advisers into Vietnam. It was France's war. Kennedy made it a US war. Kennedy was hardly what you would call a dove. Obama on the other hand has won the Nobel peace prize.

You stated it was Kennedy who started the Vietnam war! Your wrong and off by years.
I don't know if your trying to back peddle or not or maybe your mad at Kennedy because he called Ngo Diem (a devoted christian) a total wimp but the aid your talking about was weapons and special forces training for the South Vietnamese soldiers. That escalated when Khrushchev started throwing everything at his disposal to make sure the North won and turn the whole country into a communist state. Eisenhower was the one who started the ball rolling and Khrushchev tested Kennedy after he took over. Any president (hell even Carter) in those days would have upped the anti. The Vietnam war ended up being just a test of might between the two superpowers staged in the jungle....war games!

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by T@T

You stated it was Kennedy who started the Vietnam war! Your wrong and off by years.
I don't know if your trying to back peddle or not or maybe your mad at Kennedy because he called Ngo Diem (a devoted christian) a total wimp but the aid your talking about was weapons and special forces training for the South Vietnamese soldiers. That escalated when Khrushchev started throwing everything at his disposal to make sure the North won and turn the whole country into a communist state. Eisenhower was the one who started the ball rolling and Khrushchev tested Kennedy after he took over. Any president (hell even Carter) in those days would have upped the anti. The Vietnam war ended up being just a test of might between the two superpowers staged in the jungle....war games!

What I stated was correct: Kennedy took American into the Vietnam war. The North Vietnamese were also being supplied militarily and trained by foreign interests even before Eisenhower committed America to do the same. Yet neither the USSR or China are ever accused of being at war with South Vietnam. The difference between those three nations was that America decided to put their soldiers in harms way. The USSR and China never did. The decision was Kennedy's and he could have said no.

Personally I think Kennedy's decision was sound. His only mistake was to begin things as a police action. He should have used America's air superiority and bombed anything that moved right from the start. But then again I have the benefit of hind sight and I'm not sure of all the hindrances he might have faced.

The conversation started by comparing Kennedy to Obama. I'm not sure one can do that just yet. Kennedy had courage. Maybe Obama does too. I'm guessing we will know before the end of 2010.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

What I stated was correct: Kennedy took American into the Vietnam war.

Are you that dense?

For the last time...NO he didn't, He inherited the problem from Eisenhower. please stop trying to claim Kennedy started that war, You are wrong! except it and move along.