Amanda Knox Guilty of murder (shakeshead)

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

She did not lie about her story...the police made her provide a hypothetical scenario of what she thinks may have occurred (this is according to the defense). There was no evidence against her at all, yet you think she is guilty? Provide me with some evidence. She has also been adamant that she was slapped by the police during the interrogation.

I have just as much reason to not trust the defense as I do not to trust the prosecution. I think in Italy the onus of the proof is on the defense, the suspect is guilty until proven innocent. The defense really didn't have much to work with in this case.

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

Based on the evidence of the case, she would not be in jail (in Canada) and the police would not have pressed charges.

I think this still would have gone to trial in Canada, especially since its a pretty despicable murder, and the suspect tried to shift the blame to somebody with a pretty iron clad alibi.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

I all ready said I wouldn't convict her based on the evidence, I think she is guilty but it is a gut feeling. And Legal experts on the BBC and CNN have both said people are convicted in the States and in England for less evidence (even circumstantial) than she was.

What is your gut feeling based on? I have seen no evidence against her. A murder scene with some sort of sexual ritual would have left more than the one guy's DNA. Her DNA was not on any of the evidence, except for a kitchen knife from her own kitchen. The knife was also not used in the crime.
With no evidence, no motive and nothing else attaching her to the crime, there is no case. This girl was BASHED in the media.
I don't care what someone on BBC or CNN said; this is a non case and she basically got slammed in Italy.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I have just as much reason to not trust the defense as I do not to trust the prosecution. I think in Italy the onus of the proof is on the defense, the suspect is guilty until proven innocent. The defense really didn't have much to work with in this case.
I think this still would have gone to trial in Canada, especially since its a pretty despicable murder, and the suspect tried to shift the blame to somebody with a pretty iron clad alibi.

I am not sure how their system works, but from what I understand it is fairly common in an interrogation to get the suspect to 'guess' what may have occurred. This is what the defense claims are the so-called 'different stories' this girl has provided.
This never would have gone to trial in Canada, since there was nothing associating her with the crime. I am amazed that she was even a suspect. I am even more amazed smart people in this group think she is guilty. Please provide some of the evidence that ties her to the crime, besides living in the apartment.
Some guy climbed through a window and raped/killed the victim, and this guy was caught (with absolute DNA evidence against him). The issue is that the police and media unfortunately lambasted this girl in the media and then the witch hunt was on.

[speede5]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

Based on the evidence of the case, she would not be in jail (in Canada) and the police would not have pressed charges.

Too bad the crime didn't occur in Canada. It's funny how we and our neighbors to the south want immigrants and visitors to live by our rules but when we go into other countries we should be treated different. The U.S. media is trying to paint this as a massive injustice to a sweet little girl. If she's completely innocent I feel sorry for her but it's pretty hard to judge this case from across an ocean with CNN as the mediator.

[DOK]

^

Good point. You know, that's really true. "Our country, our rules" can really apply here. It doesn't matter if this didn't happen in north america, the fact is that it happened in Italy and she was served Italian justice. Fair or not, it's their system.

I'm not sure how I'm settled with that, but it's a good point just the same. Just like when women go to the middle east and must cover their bodies. We don't do it in Canada, but we must there, fair is fair, right?

[T@T]

Originally Posted by speede5

Too bad the crime didn't occur in Canada. It's funny how we and our neighbors to the south want immigrants and visitors to live by our rules but when we go into other countries we should be treated different. The U.S. media is trying to paint this as a massive injustice to a sweet little girl. If she's completely innocent I feel sorry for her but it's pretty hard to judge this case from across an ocean with CNN as the mediator.

So what your saying is if I move to another country I should forget morals/values and what is right?
If I move to say Iran I should throw a rock and precipitate in a stoning or watch and cheer a public beheading because I moved there? Please! there's a big difference in us wanting immigrants that move here to act civilized in order to keep our free and peaceful way of life then just playing by the rules.

Sorry but I have no doubt in my mind if she was Italian there wouldn't have been a trial for her...there is no evidence.

[DOK]

I don't think that's quite it. Keep your morals and ethics. But a countries court system is their system. She got swept up into it, foreigner or not. Same could be said for Jackie Tran. He's so far into our court system, I have no idea how his home country would handle him, but I know it's not what we're doing with him.

It may suck and it may actually be "wrong", but it's how they are doing things.

[speede5]

Originally Posted by T@T

So what your saying is if I move to another country I should forget morals/values and what is right? If I move to say Iran I should throw a rock and precipitate in a stoning or watch and cheer a public beheading because I moved there?

Not at all what I said. You needn't participate however if you move to Iran and commit a crime for which the punishment is stoning, tough bananas. Why should you get a free pass just because in your home country that isin't the punishment?

Please! there's a big difference in us wanting immigrants that move here to act civilized in order to keep our free and peaceful way of life then just playing by the rules.

So why isin't Italy allowed to have the same feelings?

Sorry but I have no doubt in my mind if she was Italian there wouldn't have been a trial for her...there is no evidence.

I don't dispute that there are some questionable aspects to this but if CNN is your source of information than you need to have a braoder view. This girl was not that squeeky clean, she was playing around, experamenting sexually and it is not inconcievable that things got carried away. It's all optics. She's cute and horny so the guys like her, and her parents have CNN on their side portraying an all american cutiepie so the public feels sorry for her, everyone feels so bad that she is going through this. Why no uproar over the boyfriend?

[VladtheImpaler]

I'm with NarbeZ - when I researched this closely a few months ago, I had no doubt as to her guilt. Of course, I'm old and senile, so I can't remember exactly why I am so sure, and I am too lazy to review it again.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by narbeZ

Could you imagine if you had the power to stop a crime before it happened and give the perpetrator a good old fashioned country ass woopin?

Damn, that's a good idea. They should make a movie about that type of power.

[loob job]

Her DNA was found on a knife handle from a knife in her own house, shocking. There was a little bit of her blood in her own bathroom sink, stop the presses. They had no real evidence to convict her. In Canada or the U.S. she'd be free.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by loob job

Her DNA was found on a knife handle from a knife in her own house, shocking. There was a little bit of her blood in her own bathroom sink, stop the presses. They had no real evidence to convict her. In Canada or the U.S. she'd be free.

However she's not in Canada or the U.S. so that sentiment is irrelevant.

There's no question that this will be appealed so the case will get some judicial review.

[loob job]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

However she's not in Canada or the U.S. so that sentiment is irrelevant.

There's no question that this will be appealed so the case will get some judicial review.

I realize she's not in Canada or the U.S. That's why I posted what I did.

[longsuffering]

I'm just proud that there has never been a single miscarriage of justice in the Canadian Justice System, thereby granting us the moral authority to look down our noses at what we see, based on nothing more than information provided by the media, as a lousy Italian legal system and a crappy verdict.

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

What is your gut feeling based on? I have seen no evidence against her. A murder scene with some sort of sexual ritual would have left more than the one guy's DNA. Her DNA was not on any of the evidence, except for a kitchen knife from her own kitchen. The knife was also not used in the crime.
With no evidence, no motive and nothing else attaching her to the crime, there is no case. This girl was BASHED in the media.
I don't care what someone on BBC or CNN said; this is a non case and she basically got slammed in Italy.

My gut feeling on this is based around the fact that in the days after the murder she acted like a murderer, lying to the police, pushing someone else for the killing, and then using the excuse of "I dont remember what happened"

She can say that the police hit her and forced her to write down that statement, I choose not to believe her based on her actions after her supposed friend was killed.

To say it is a non-case is wrong, people go to court on circumstantial evidence here all the time. And her DNA was on the murder weapon whether they could double blind test it or not. And she put herself at the scene of the murder in her first "alibi"

As I said it is not enough to convict and I wouldn't be able to say guilty, but it is enough for me to think she did it.

Only reason this case is getting a lot of media play over here and there is an uproar in the american media, even when legal experts have said there was enough for this to go to trial and maybe get a conviction, is because its a pretty young girl.

[pepper24]

If Italy has the death penalty I hope that Amanda Knox gets it!

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

I'm just proud that there has never been a single miscarriage of justice in the Canadian Justice System, thereby granting us the moral authority to look down our noses at what we see, based on nothing more than information provided by the media, as a lousy Italian legal system and a crappy verdict.

Where do you come up with this stuff? Who in this thread is bashing Italy? She was hosed in a court case where she is innocent. They caught the killer. Then they created some story to save face that put this poor girl in jail.

I have watched/read everything I can regarding this case, and that makes me an expert (just kidding). There was literally no evidence against her, yet they still convicted.

I have requested several times in this thread for those that think she is guilty to at least provide the evidence the prosecution used against her. You might have a hard time. A knife had her DNA, yet the knife was proven to not be used in the crime. This is the same knife she used to make dinner daily. Where did you find she was experimenting sexually? Why would that even be brought in as evidence? The victim was raped and killed, the killer caught.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

My gut feeling on this is based around the fact that in the days after the murder she acted like a murderer, lying to the police, pushing someone else for the killing, and then using the excuse of "I dont remember what happened"

She did not act like a murderer after the case, where do you get this from? What does a murderer act like? They caught her in a lingerer store the next day, defense had a great excuse - she had no clothes as her house was in lockup due to the police investigation. All the reasons the prosecution gave were simply stupid.

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

She can say that the police hit her and forced her to write down that statement, I choose not to believe her based on her actions after her supposed friend was killed.

The police asked her to 'guess' what took place, these are the so called statements. She was not trying to frame anyone. The fact a dude broke in and killed her roommate was totally crappy, but had nothing to do with her.

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

To say it is a non-case is wrong, people go to court on circumstantial evidence here all the time. And her DNA was on the murder weapon whether they could double blind test it or not. And she put herself at the scene of the murder in her first "alibi"

DNA was not on the murder weapon. Please show me anywhere this is posted. She lives at the scene of the murder, big deal.

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

As I said it is not enough to convict and I wouldn't be able to say guilty, but it is enough for me to think she did it.

You have provided no evidence, except for the weapon, which you are incorrect about.

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

Only reason this case is getting a lot of media play over here and there is an uproar in the american media, even when legal experts have said there was enough for this to go to trial and maybe get a conviction, is because its a pretty young girl.

The reason it is getting play is because an American girl is jailed for a brutal murder and they accused her of witchery, satanism, perversion etc. Pretty or not, this is an interesting story.

For all I know she did or did not do it, but the case has nothing against her. I am shocked she would get jailed for this.

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

Where do you come up with this stuff? Who in this thread is bashing Italy? She was hosed in a court case where she is innocent. They caught the killer. Then they created some story to save face that put this poor girl in jail.

I have watched/read everything I can regarding this case, and that makes me an expert (just kidding). There was literally no evidence against her, yet they still convicted.

I have requested several times in this thread for those that think she is guilty to at least provide the evidence the prosecution used against her. You might have a hard time. A knife had her DNA, yet the knife was proven to not be used in the crime. This is the same knife she used to make dinner daily. Where did you find she was experimenting sexually? Why would that even be brought in as evidence? The victim was raped and killed, the killer caught.

The Knife wasn't proven to not have been used in the crime, "That knife has Knox's DNA on the handle and what some forensic scientists say is Kercher's DNA on the tip" from http://www.time.com/time/world/artic...904571,00.html

the same article says As to whether the DNA on the tip belongs to Kercher, experts disagree. Patrizia Stefanoni, a police forensics expert who testified in the pretrial hearing in May, suggested that it was Kercher's DNA on the tip of the knife — and that the way the genetic material was positioned indicated the knife had probably been used to puncture the skin. But other experts who have analyzed the DNA evidence for the defense suggest that poor sample quality and possible contamination undermine the accuracy of these results.


There is disagreement, but don't say it wasn't used. There is no definitive proof either way when different forensic experts see it different ways.


Just because one person was convicted for the killing doesn't mean others were not involved. Especially when Knox admitted she was acquainted with Guede.

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

DNA was not on the murder weapon. Please show me anywhere this is posted. She lives at the scene of the murder, big deal.



You have provided no evidence, except for the weapon, which you are incorrect about.

"That knife has Knox's DNA on the handle and what some forensic scientists say is Kercher's DNA on the tip" from http://www.time.com/time/world/artic...904571,00.html