DC sniper to be executed tonight....

[CrusaderPi]

So "we as a society" don't get to decide who is worthy of living in our society?

[Dasani]

Originally Posted by CrusaderPi

So "we as a society" don't get to decide who is worthy of living in our society?

No, of course not. Nazi Germany anyone? What's next? No Jews or ######s?

[CrusaderPi]

Oh geez. Way to argue apples and pork chops. Never mind, I should have known better.

[Dasani]

Well go ahead and tell me why we as a society should get to pick and choose who lives and who dies?

What's more damning to society: a murderer who kills ten people or a white collar criminal like Ken Lay who bankrupted hundreds of thousands of innocent people, causing unknown suicides and crime? Why does one get the death penalty and the other a small country club prison sentence?

[valo403]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

If you want to see political suicide in action he would give a stay. As it stands right now there's no logical reason for one, I think the appeals have pretty much run their course.

And does the president get involved in executions, or is that up to the state governers office?

It would be the governor of the state that obtained the conviction, the federal government has absolutely nothing to do with it. If the conviction was in DC the President would be involved, but there's no DC death penalty so it's a moot point.

I'm against the death penalty in all instances simply because of those who have been shown to be innocent after receiving a death sentence. In every instance these individuals were thought to be guilty beyond any reasonable doubt, and yet it was shown to be otherwise. While I don't have any doubts as to the guilt of this particular individual, once the door is open there are always going to be innocent people pushed through it.

[Dasani]

The federal government had nothing to do with either trial. John Allen Muhammad was tried and convicted in both Virginia and Maryland, not in federal court. Interestingly, Muhammad was never actually sentenced to death.

[doozwimp]

I wonder what its like to know exactly when you are going to meet your end...

I definitely dont give any sympathy to this guy, but this question always crosses my mind when capital punishment is given out.

[Dasani]

Capital punishment was not given in this case. He was sentenced to six consecutive life sentences, not death. He requested that he be executed.

[metallicat]

Originally Posted by Dasani

No, of course not. Nazi Germany anyone? What's next? No Jews or ######s?

Ok, I already said I am against capital punishment, but that is taking things WAY too far. Here we go again with the Nazi BS being thrown around too liberally. Big difference between the US executing a convicted criminal and Hitler doing what he did.

[Dasani]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

Ok, I already said I am against capital punishment, but that is taking things WAY too far. Here we go again with the Nazi BS being thrown around too liberally. Big difference between the US executing a convicted criminal and Hitler doing what he did.

I was responding to a post where the guy asked me if "we as a society" should have the right to decide who lives and dies in our society. Explain to me the difference between this viewpoint and what happened to Jews and ######s under the Third Reich.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Dasani

Capital punishment was not given in this case. He was sentenced to six consecutive life sentences, not death. He requested that he be executed.

Ya, you're wrong.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...FhopI&refer=us

[metallicat]

We as a society have rules in place to deal with people who break laws. This guy broke many laws, he killed ten people, and terrified not only the district of Columbia, but an entire nation. Do I agree that he should be killed? No. But I understand that the laws of our society (in this case the USA) say that he should be put to death.

You're probably going to claim that I am not understanding your point, but anytime someone compares something to Nazi Germany, they are usually out in left field. The comparison is stupid.

[Dasani]

On May 6, 2008, it was revealed that Muhammad has asked prosecutors in a letter to help him end legal appeals of his conviction and death sentence "so that you can murder this innocent black man." An appeal filed by Muhammad's defense lawyers in April 2008 cited evidence of brain damage that may render Muhammad incompetent to make legal decisions, and that he should not have been allowed to represent himself at his Virginia trial.[9]

[metallicat]

Originally Posted by Dasani

On May 6, 2008, it was revealed that Muhammad has asked prosecutors in a letter to help him end legal appeals of his conviction and death sentence "so that you can murder this innocent black man." An appeal filed by Muhammad's defense lawyers in April 2008 cited evidence of brain damage that may render Muhammad incompetent to make legal decisions, and that he should not have been allowed to represent himself at his Virginia trial.[9]

You said he asked to be killed, yet in this little blurb it says he asked prosecutors to end legal appeals "of his conviction and death sentence". So what is it?

[Dasani]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

We as a society have rules in place to deal with people who break laws. This guy broke many laws, he killed ten people, and terrified not only the district of Columbia, but an entire nation. Do I agree that he should be killed? No. But I understand that the laws of our society (in this case the USA) say that he should be put to death.

You're probably going to claim that I am not understanding your point, but anytime someone compares something to Nazi Germany, they are usually out in left field. The comparison is stupid.

I don't think the comparison is stupid at all. The guy questioned whether we as a society have the right to choose who lives and who dies. My opinion is that we do not and there is no difference between killing murderers and killing other "undesirables". Jews and ######s were considered more undesirable than murderers under the National Socialist Party in Germany in the 1930s.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Dasani

No, of course not. Nazi Germany anyone? What's next? No Jews or ######s?

It wasn't German Society who got to decide who lived or died at all. For the most part German Society wasn't even aware of the final solution and the extermination camps.

It was a cabal of top government officials, not judges versed in the legal system, not lawyers versed in the appeals proccess, not police officers investigating crimes. It was Hitler and his closest advisers.

Its not even close to the same thing.

In this case he was tried legally, found guilty offered all possible appeals, asked to end those appeals and end his life.

Its never society that deems who lives or who dies, if it was there would be a mass vote on the death penalty and it would be recinded.

Its the legal and justice system who makes that decision.

[Thor]

Won't be sad to see him go, I'm on the side against capital punishment.

Just curious, him ending his life now compared to spending the rest of his life in prison, which is hell on earth, isn't that worse for him?

I mean if I had a choice between life in federal prison vs death, I wouldn't hesitate to off myself.

Maybe I watch too much Oz.

edit: read that he did ask to be executed, smart move on his part.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Thor

Won't be sad to see him go, I'm on the side against capital punishment.

Just curious, him ending his life now compared to spending the rest of his life in prison, which is hell on earth, isn't that worse for him?

I mean if I had a choice between life in federal prison vs death, I wouldn't hesitate to off myself.

Maybe I watch too much Oz.

I'm on the side of capital punishment, however I'm only really strong on it when there isn't a questionable chain of evidence. Which in this case the evidence led to the conclusion that there was no question that this was the guy.

Capital Punishment was far more effective when people believed in the possibility of punishment beyond man's justice system.

Is it a deterrence, no not really, however the simplistic argument is that we haven't had a copy cat running around snipping people.

Personally I am all for the ultimate punishment for the ultimate crime which in this case was mass murder. But it has little to do with deterence and more to do with the need for closure. When someone mass murders like this and then sits in prison (and comparitively American prisons aren't that terrible compared to other places in the world) getting three square meals a day, watching T.V. working out, it mocks society and the victims of the crime.

If the justice system bought back the hard labour sentencing component I would be satisfied with that.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

I'm not trying to stir up a hornets nest here, but I read a few posts that got me thinking.

In this thread, as well in others (usually involving child molestation, or rape), you quite often see people post, "I'm against the death penalty, but in this case I'm all for it". There was an example in this thread, with pretty much that exact quote.

So doesn't that really mean that you are in favour of the death penalty, just possibly with a higher standard for sentencing?

Like I said, I'm not trying to argue with anyone, I just think it's one of those odd things that I've noticed.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

I'm not trying to stir up a hornets nest here, but I read a few posts that got me thinking.

In this thread, as well in others (usually involving child molestation, or rape), you quite often see people post, "I'm against the death penalty, but in this case I'm all for it". There was an example in this thread, with pretty much that exact quote.

So doesn't that really mean that you are in favour of the death penalty, just possibly with a higher standard for sentencing?

Like I said, I'm not trying to argue with anyone, I just think it's one of those odd things that I've noticed.

I'm for the death penalty, however the conviction has to be pretty much un-impeachable (sp?) another poster is right, there have been people who have been found innocent after being executed.

However in the cases of the DC Sniper, Ted Bundy, Dahlmer, even our own Clifford Olson, there has to be a higher price paid.

when I talk about punishment for child molesters, I don't mean the death penalty, but to me its the one crime where you should never ever leave prison.