Fringe - Season 2

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by atb

Filler? Really? I thought it was a great episode since it finally explained how Walter ended up with alternate Peter. It also tied in how come the observer became involved in rescuing Walter & Peter.

Spoilers in white:
Yeah, for me the big part of this episode was understanding a bit more about the observers. It's really interesting to me that the observer's mistake caused this sequence of events that lead to Walter crossing to the other universe, but that the observers didn't feel that they needed to prevent that from happening. Which means that the observers either felt that Walter crossing was not important enough to prevent, or that it was inevitable that the universes would collide regardless. Also, what exactly is Peter's role, if he's more important to the observers than preventing the collision between the two universes?
And I liked how previously, the idea of Walter going to the other universe to steal Peter always seemed extremely selfish, but it was done here in such a way that was pretty understandable and sympathetic, even though it's awful to think of what it must have done to alternate Elizabeth.

[LChoy]

This will set up the conclusion of the past story, with the "accident/fire" that ultimately got Walter's assistant killed and Walter imprisoned at the Mental facility. Also hope to find out what happened to Walter's wife

[Flamesguy_SJ]

This show has been ON FIRE since it came back from hiatus. Last week's episode with the white tulip and the guy from Robocop was amazing, and last night's was even better. Only two weeks until the finale, I think.

Should be good to see "Mr. Secretary" make a real appearance; shame about Peter though.

[Antithesis]

Is Mr. Secretary the Walter from the other universe - and this whole thing is over Peter? Or am I stating the obvious?

[Flamesguy_SJ]

Originally Posted by Antithesis

Is Mr. Secretary the Walter from the other universe - and this whole thing is over Peter? Or am I stating the obvious?

That seems to be the theory. I doubt the "whole" thing is over Peter; remember the Observers played a part in bringing Alt!Peter over as well, so his life must have been important without all the inter-universe travel.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Flamesguy_SJ

That seems to be the theory. I doubt the "whole" thing is over Peter; remember the Observers played a part in bringing Alt!Peter over as well, so his life must have been important without all the inter-universe travel.

Or, he's important because of the inter-universe travel that occurred because of him. It's the classic time-travel paradox where the question is always whether or not the time traveler changed events of the past, or if they caused them in the first place.

If Skynet doesn't send a Terminator back in time to kill Sarah Connor, John Connor doesn't send Kyle Reese back in time to protect her, which means John is never conceived and there is no reason for Skynet to try to kill Sarah.

In this case, was Peter important because Walter took him from the Alternate Universe which caused Walternate to pursue him across the universes causing a war between the universes? If so, if the Observer hadn't been there to distract Walternate when he found the cure for Peter, Walter wouldn't have felt the need to cross over, and Peter would have never been brought back. Did the act of observing cause the events that were being observed?

[Flamesguy_SJ]

Originally Posted by getbak

Or, he's important because of the inter-universe travel that occurred because of him. It's the classic time-travel paradox where the question is always whether or not the time traveler changed events of the past, or if they caused them in the first place.

If Skynet doesn't send a Terminator back in time to kill Sarah Connor, John Connor doesn't send Kyle Reese back in time to protect her, which means John is never conceived and there is no reason for Skynet to try to kill Sarah.

In this case, was Peter important because Walter took him from the Alternate Universe which caused Walternate to pursue him across the universes causing a war between the universes? If so, if the Observer hadn't been there to distract Walternate when he found the cure for Peter, Walter wouldn't have felt the need to cross over, and Peter would have never been brought back. Did the act of observing cause the events that were being observed?

I don't think so. I somehow doubt the Observers are part of any predestination paradox; in the way I interpreted things in "Peter", the Observer wasn't meant to have been noticed by Walternate, and so they felt that the consequence of September's error (Alt!Peter being brought over by our Walter) benefited their knowledge of Peter being "significant".

Also, to your Terminator point, there's also the theory that the John Connor from TimelineA sent Kyle Reese back in time to fight Ah-nold, and Reese then fathered the John Connor of TimelineB, who met up with the Uncle Bob Terminator in T2 and forged TimelineC by destroying Cyberdyne etc etc. That whole universe is one big mind-fata when it comes to time-travel though, especially if you take into account the TV show.

Everyone always talks about the plotholes that are so apparent in time-travel stories, especially in science fiction. Personally, I view the inconsistencies and anomalies as incredibly intriguing and a source of further attention and questioning instead.

[octothorp]

I think Walternate being Mr Secretary is the most likely thing, but I'm sort of hoping they throw another loop in there - something we haven't thought of. I also think their motives have more to do with William Bell and Massive Dynamic stealing technology from the other universe than about the theft of Peter. Or perhaps the blight is somehow the fault of our universe.

Also, the previous episode, with the time-traveller trying to go back to save his girlfriend was revealing: I thought that the Fringe universe would have an approach to time travel similar to, say, the recent Star Trek movie: that going back in time actually creates an alternate reality. But in that episode, we saw someone basically rewinding a single timeline, more like Back to the Future. Which casts doubt on my theory that it would be someone from our time travelling back to the past that causes the initial break between the two realities.

[Antithesis]

Interesting that you feel that something caused the two realities ... I've always just assumed they were always there but was also wondering why only two ... I mean, if there's more than one ... I guess it creates more of an antagonistic dynamic to have only two - makes a complex idea as simple as possible?

And if I came to the realization on my own that Walternate was Mr. Secretary ... he's probably not. I'm notoriously slow to pick up on things, so all I likely managed to do was clue in to the misdirection.

[FurnaceFace]

That nose sure looked like Spock to me. I think the secretary is Bell.

[Flamesguy_SJ]

Originally Posted by octothorp

I think Walternate being Mr Secretary is the most likely thing, but I'm sort of hoping they throw another loop in there - something we haven't thought of. I also think their motives have more to do with William Bell and Massive Dynamic stealing technology from the other universe than about the theft of Peter. Or perhaps the blight is somehow the fault of our universe.

Also, the previous episode, with the time-traveller trying to go back to save his girlfriend was revealing: I thought that the Fringe universe would have an approach to time travel similar to, say, the recent Star Trek movie: that going back in time actually creates an alternate reality. But in that episode, we saw someone basically rewinding a single timeline, more like Back to the Future. Which casts doubt on my theory that it would be someone from our time travelling back to the past that causes the initial break between the two realities.

There are theories circulating that the "blight" is what Walternate would have ended up curing if he had been the one to discover the cure to Peter's illness. That would also possibly explain how Peter is "significant". And there's also a lot of ambiguity as to whether it was "our" Peter who is significant, or only Alt!Peter.

[d_phaneuf]

I hadn't been able to watch all the episodes since the winter break, just no time and once I had fallen behind 1 it became a bunch more.

Popped the 1st in this morning expecting to watch 1 or 2, finished them all in a row. It has been outstanding ever since the break. Every episode has been awesome.

I initially thought that it the secretary was going to be Walternate, but as someone said that does seem kind of obvious. Bell would make sense too, but shouldn't he know how to go back and forth?

[atb]

A few episodes ago I was thinking it would be a cool twist if Peter's Alt mother was actually behind the attacks. I think that might be out the window with the Secretary being called Mr.

Also how did the Secretary make it over? I thought they cancelled the harmonics before the transfer was completed.

[d_phaneuf]

wow at the end of this episode

I know it was the obvious guess as to who the secretary was but it was the best i think and should set up a great end of season

[Flamesguy_SJ]

Ohhh man.

The alt-Fringe team is awesome. Even though this entire episode was set-up with nothing earth-shattering really happening, it has me so jazzed up for next week.

I don't even know where to start with my reaction! Season 3 is gonna be so kick-ass; I have a feeling we'll be seeing a lot more of the Alt-world.

[d_phaneuf]

ya the episode didn't really have much but they needed it to set up for the finale next week which looks like its going to be fantastic

[Azure]

I thought it started out pretty slow, but I'm up to episode 17 now and its great.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by Flamesguy_SJ

Ohhh man.

The alt-Fringe team is awesome. Even though this entire episode was set-up with nothing earth-shattering really happening, it has me so jazzed up for next week.

I don't even know where to start with my reaction! Season 3 is gonna be so kick-ass; I have a feeling we'll be seeing a lot more of the Alt-world.

Yeah, my wife and I are in disagreement, she doesn't want it to get bogged down with too much action in the alt universe, but I hope they're going to spend a lot more time there.

Some of my favorite things about the last episode:
I loved that they introduced this idea of a superhero team of cortexiphan kids, and then immediately took away their powers and started to kill them off. I was a bit sad to see Nick killed, but it was great that they could have so much emotional impact in the death of a character who's been in only one episode.
Walternate is awesome. It feels like he was a good person at one point, but has become bitter and vengeful over the years, while our Walter has become a better person than he once was. The machine looks like it will be an interesting focus point for the next while.
Great to see Charlie back.
Differences with alternate Broyles, Dunham, and Farnsworth.
There are a few things I didn't really like, like how easy it was for them to cross over (and how easily Walternate and Peter crossed back over).

[atb]

Damn this show is awesome

[Antithesis]

I miss blonde Olivia