Tactfully talking about the pro- life vs. pro- choice groups at the uni

[mykalberta]

If people want to end the existence of unborn fetus's and think there is nothing wrong with that, so be it, its a free country.

Its a choice, its not murder, but I think its a terrible choice when you have couples more than willing to adopt - however I think procreating with someone you dont intend to have a child with while not wearing protection or forcing your dance partner to wear protection is also a wrong choice.

Whatever the decision, abortion should be 100% funded by the person having it and not by governments tax dollars. Actions have consequences, and in this case the consequence should be having to pay for an abortion out of pocket.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by moon

Even if the "peaceful" demonstration was designed to get that exact response from the opposition?

Bingo.

This specific band of "pro-lifers" are only trying to feed their own egos. They don't care about their message, because the message they are actually getting out there is "whack jobs create controversy on university campus".

That's all anyone talks about or thinks about when discussing this group. And if one of these clowns got in my face while walking up the street, I'd probably let my fist answer their free speech too.

A couple years ago, I was walking up MacLeod trail, and happened past a very large group of pro-life protesters who were lined up the road from at least Glenmore to Southland Drive, and beyond. Hundreds of people easily, maybe a couple thousand. Each with a sign, each politely standing on the side of the road, each cheering when someone honked or waived. I walked right through that crowd without issue, and without anyone acosting me or trying to lecture me. Only had a couple people say "God bless you" as I passed by. That group did not make themselves the focus of the protest, they let the cause they were standing up for be front and centre.

There is a right way to protest, and there is a wrong way. The idiots at the U of C chose the wrong way.

[Russic]

I'm cool with it as long as there is enough signage to warn people of the graphic nature of the displays and allow them the ability to ignore it (which there is). The way I see it they are just hurting their own position (kinda like PETA in that way). Unfortunate really, because it seems actions like this polarize opinions to the degree that it gets very hard to have a legitimate discussion.

I'm also interested by people that have their opinions change after having a baby. I wonder if mine will change? I don't really see it happening, but not having gone through the experience I can't say for sure.

[zuluking]

The environmentalists approach their protests in the same way. There must be some sort of effectiveness to it, otherwise why would they keep doing it? Is there a demographic out there which is swayed by this type of in-your-face protesting?

Having said that, those dang environmentalists really bug me with that type of protest - in fact, the baby seal campaigns are shockingly similar to (how I've heard) the pro-life campaign on campus. Again, who are these protests catering to? Not anyone on the board as I can see (even the supporters of the overall cause.)

[Russic]

Originally Posted by zuluking

The environmentalists approach their protests in the same way. There must be some sort of effectiveness to it, otherwise why would they keep doing it? Is there a demographic out there which is swayed by this type of in-your-face protesting?

Having said that, those dang environmentalists really bug me with that type of protest - in fact, the baby seal campaigns are shockingly similar to (how I've heard) the pro-life campaign on campus. Again, who are these protests catering to? Not anyone on the board as I can see (even the supporters of the overall cause.)

Much like your example and the PETA people, I find the protests tend to cater to their own members.

[zuluking]

Originally Posted by Russic

I'm also interested by people that have their opinions change after having a baby. I wonder if mine will change? I don't really see it happening, but not having gone through the experience I can't say for sure.

I assure you that you'll think twice about it when you feel the baby kicking in utero. I would put big money on the fact that you'll reference the "baby" rather than the "fetus." And once you've personalized it, there's no fully going back.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Russic

I'm also interested by people that have their opinions change after having a baby. I wonder if mine will change? I don't really see it happening, but not having gone through the experience I can't say for sure.

Originally Posted by zuluking

I assure you that you'll think twice about it when you feel the baby kicking in utero. I would put big money on the fact that you'll reference the "baby" rather than the "fetus." And once you've personalized it, there's no fully going back.

After having kids it becomes very difficult to imagine an abortion seeming reasonable under any circumstance other than rape, incest or when the health of the mother is at risk.

I'm reluctantly pro-choice still, but it doesn't feel as right as it used to for me and I can certainly understand the pro-life position a lot better.

[Russic]

Originally Posted by zuluking

I assure you that you'll think twice about it when you feel the baby kicking in utero. I would put big money on the fact that you'll reference the "baby" rather than the "fetus." And once you've personalized it, there's no fully going back.

Funny you'd mention that ... Felix the fetus (as we've affectionately dubbed it) kicked me in the ear last night. Quite hard actually! My opinion hasn't really changed yet at all. I've heard it, felt it and had it stick it's tongue out at me during an ultrasound. I wonder when I actually hold him or her if the change will occur. I have a bit of a hard time thinking that nothing will happen to my viewpoint, but nothing has thus far.

[DOK]

People tend not to talk about poor prenatal diagnosis much it seems. That is the reason for 98% of late term abortions. When the child is diagnosed with a fatal issue, genetic or formed, the legal choice is left to the parents. I think its unfair to take the choice away to make a humane and merciful decision for the child. No different than pulling the plug on a coma victim.

I'm certain, however, that most of these pro-lifers are of the mind that abortions are done on a voluntary basis without medical reasoning. Personally, I would hope they would put more energy into teaching young men and women about the consequences of sex.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Sliver

After having kids it becomes very difficult to imagine an abortion seeming reasonable under any circumstance other than rape, incest or when the health of the mother is at risk.

I'm reluctantly pro-choice still, but it doesn't feel as right as it used to for me and I can certainly understand the pro-life position a lot better.

This.

....is why I can't go out and protest, publicly, for pro-choice.

I might believe it, but part of me knows that a day will come when I have kids, and I'll seriously wonder how anyone in their right mind would want to abort a baby.

But, thats just me.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by Azure

Which is your opinion.

Just like it is their opinion that they are justified to do so.

I do realize that they go over the line, and the world is hardly ever as black and white as they make it out to be, but I do still support their right to protest.

Just a quick question Azure, if I was to post gruesome pictures of some of your deceased relatives in order to try to gain support for my agenda, would you approve or support that?

Because I know I'd be trying to hop the fence in order to tear those pictures down.

At the end of the day these people are posting pictures of corpses - someone's family in a public place. That to me pushes the limits of "freedom of speech".

[Azure]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

Just a quick question Azure, if I was to post gruesome pictures of some of your deceased relatives in order to try to gain support for my agenda, would you approve or support that?

Because I know I'd be trying to hop the fence in order to tear those pictures down.

At the end of the day these people are posting pictures of corpses - someone's family in a public place. That to me pushes the limits of "freedom of speech".

If that is what they're doing, no I absolutely wouldn't support them.

In fact, I'd be the first person trying to get them to remove the pictures.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by Azure

If that is what they're doing, no I absolutely wouldn't support them.

In fact, I'd be the first person trying to get them to remove the pictures.

So why do you support them posting pictures of the Holocaust/Rwandian Genocides to make their point? Because that is exactly what they are doing.

[IronDave]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

This specific band of "pro-lifers" are only trying to feed their own egos. They don't care about their message, because the message they are actually getting out there is "whack jobs create controversy on university campus".

That's what I mean by their high horse, it seems like they are self-righteous students proving their constitutional right, I guess I'm of the view graphic photos are against the public good, and that trumps the constitution.

[Azure]

If it isn't illegal to use pictures like that to protest, than they can do so within the law.

I would still ask them to remove the pictures though. Their methods are a bit too extreme, like I said earlier.

But, outside of just protesting back, what else can you do?