Tell me there's nothing wrong with America

[troutman]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

The fact is that an assault rifle, the AK-47 in particular can be used for hunting, and they work quite well.

Are you sure about that? I know a lot of hunters, but none of them have AK-47s.

http://www.albertaregulations.ca/huntingregs/

It is unlawful to

1. set out, use or employ any of the following items for the purpose of hunting big game:
   • ammunition of less than .23 calibre,
   • ammunition that contains non-expanding bullets,
   • an auto-loading firearm that has the capacity to hold more than 5 cartridges in the magazine,
   • a shotgun having a gauge of .410 or less,
   • a shotgun in a bird sanctuary,
   • bait, except as permitted for the hunting of black bears (click here for more information on Black Bear baiting),
   • an arrow other than an authorized arrow (click here for more information on bowhunting),
   • a bow other than an authorized bow (click here for more information on bowhunting),
   • a muzzle-loading firearm of less than .44 calibre,
   • a rifle or shotgun in WMUs 212, 248 or 410 (persons hunting under the authority of a Strathcona White-tailed Deer Licence, a Foothills Deer Licence, or an Antlerless Moose Special Licence in Strathcona County may hunt with a bow and arrow, cross-bow, muzzleloader or shotgun),
   • a trap,
   • a cross-bow and arrow that is not authorized (click here to view Hunting with a Cross-bow)
     

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by Zevo

You're kidding, right? i mean you can't seriously be suggesting if other students had guns it would have been okay. What, the fastest draw wins?

That reminds me of the deputy in Unforgiven loading up with guns and ammo before the big shootout and muttering:

"I don't want to die for a lack of shooting back."

He died anyway.

Mikey is right in saying an armed student body might have stopped that one incident from happening . . . . . . but a student body of testosterone/hormone-fuelled 20 somethings is probably going to have a lot of other disasters to worry about.

Less is more.

Cowperson

[EddyBeers]

Well I am sure that strict constructionist from the early 19th century are rolling over in their graves at the liberal construction of the word "Arms". Judicial activism is running rampant in the states, with interpretations of the word that no reasonable person would place on the word arms. The activist judges have expanded the meaning of the word "Arms" through implication, including such things under the term "Arms" that were never intended. It is too bad, I bet guys like Scalia have a real intellectual problem with the ever expanding second amendment, each time a new gun is created, that somehow gets included in the word Arms

[worth]

AK-47's are not legal in Canada.

You could use at one point semi auto rifles such as AR-15 for hunting which are legal here. I'm not positive if you still can or not.

[Cactus Jack]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

I called your post dumb because you came off as one of these ranting, anti-gun, politically correct a-holes that I can't stand.

Well, if someone wanted to kill you, would it matter if it was an assault weapon or a pistol? You are dead either way. The guy was carrying the rifle because he was at that type of event. What I was saying was, your typical gun owning citizen goes to the gun store and buys a gun legally with whatever identification/licence is required. You seem to have a problem with this........

Your average inner-city gangster street thug who has a criminal record of some kind cannot buy a gun legally at the store, so he gets it off the street. Like I said, guns get a bad rap because of inner city violence revolving around the drug trade and gangs.............guns are not the problem. You take all the guns away, and then only the illegal street guns are in circulation, and the criminals job is now easier because they KNOW you dont have one. The violence will continue.

I can tell you haven't owned a gun.......people hear the word "assault rifle" and immediately think of all the terrorists in action movies they have seen, so there is a sense of fear around them. The fact is that an assault rifle, the AK-47 in particular can be used for hunting, and they work quite well.

And you are one of those Charlton Heston you-can-pry-it-from-my-cold-dead-hands fanatics that freak out and get defensive when someone doesn't believe baring arms is a good idea or safe. I think that kind of fanaticism is a big problem with society. While you're at it, why stop at assault riffles? Why not arm people with WMDs? Bazookas? Hand gernades? AK-47s?

It's funny how you seem to believe people that people that committ crimes are not ordinary citizens. like they are any different. They were ordinary joe's who had access to a weapon and used it for killing or assaulting someone. No one has ever murdered when they didn't have a weapon.

No, I have never owned or shot a gun and am proud of it. My package is big enough, I don't need a gun or will ever need to feel the "thrill" of killing something. Just like drugs, guns can be handled in a safe, responsible way but they often are not and the world would be a much better place if they were both abolished.

The 2nd ammendment was written at the time when a WMD was a musket. It is so dated it's ridiculous, just like the people that support it.

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by Cactus Jack

They were ordinary joe's who had access to a weapon and used it for killing or assaulting someone. No one has ever murdered when they didn't have a weapon.

Knives aren't protected by the Constitution. Ban them!

Guns will never be outlawed in the US. Never. Their lobby group is among the strongest in the US. To amend the constitution takes 2/3rd support in both houses of Congress. The result, as I said, would be similar to prohibition or the war on drugs.

As a philosophical or theoretical debate, it's fine, so long as everyone understands that there will never be a fundamental change.

[Zevo]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

That reminds me of the deputy in Unforgiven loading up with guns and ammo before the big shootout and muttering:

"I don't want to die for a lack of shooting back."

He died anyway.

Mikey is right in saying an armed student body might have stopped that one incident from happening . . . . . . but a student body of testosterone/hormone-fuelled 20 somethings is probably going to have a lot of other disasters to worry about.

Less is more.

Cowperson

It was high school. There is no scenario I can think of that armed 16-18 yr. olds is even remotely a good idea.

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

That was intended to be a State right.

I support some gun rights, but not those. They are made for killing humans and we don't need them.

I'm guessing that guy is an Obama supporter though.

IIRC, it still is a State right, in that it has never been incorporated under the Due Process clause of the 14th amendment. Which means, States do not have to follow the 2nd amendment only the Federal government does.

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by Zevo

It was high school. There is no scenario I can think of that armed 16-18 yr. olds is even remotely a good idea.

I remember reading stories out of Texas after the VT Shootings (a campus where the possession of guns are banned, FYI - I'm surprised Cho wasn't deterred by this law...). Students were saying that Cho would have gotten off a few rounds before being taken out by fellow students. I assume that means it's legal to carry a concealed weapon on campus at least in certain places in Texas.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by troutman

Are you sure about that? I know a lot of hunters, but none of them have AK-47s.

http://www.albertaregulations.ca/huntingregs/



It is unlawful to

1. set out, use or employ any of the following items for the purpose of hunting big game:
   • ammunition of less than .23 calibre,
   • ammunition that contains non-expanding bullets,
   • an auto-loading firearm that has the capacity to hold more than 5 cartridges in the magazine,
   • a shotgun having a gauge of .410 or less,
   • a shotgun in a bird sanctuary,
   • bait, except as permitted for the hunting of black bears (click here for more information on Black Bear baiting),
   • an arrow other than an authorized arrow (click here for more information on bowhunting),
   • a bow other than an authorized bow (click here for more information on bowhunting),
   • a muzzle-loading firearm of less than .44 calibre,
   • a rifle or shotgun in WMUs 212, 248 or 410 (persons hunting under the authority of a Strathcona White-tailed Deer Licence, a Foothills Deer Licence, or an Antlerless Moose Special Licence in Strathcona County may hunt with a bow and arrow, cross-bow, muzzleloader or shotgun),
   • a trap,
   • a cross-bow and arrow that is not authorized (click here to view Hunting with a Cross-bow)
     

To be fair, nothing you've posted there excludes an AK-47. Other than the fact that a REAL AK-47 is a prohibited firearm becasue it is fully automatic.
However, there are guns based on the AK-47 that are for all intents and purposes a semi-auto AK-47 with a 4 round clip, that you COULD use for hunting, but there are MUCH better, cheaper options available.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by worth

AK-47's are not legal in Canada.

You could use at one point semi auto rifles such as AR-15 for hunting which are legal here. I'm not positive if you still can or not.

Not for big game, as they are USUALLY chambered in .223

[nik-]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

The fact is that an assault rifle, the AK-47 in particular can be used for hunting, and they work quite well.

I just had to laugh at this. No crap an ASSAULT RIFLE can work quite well in killing deer. So can a TOW missile. It doesn't mean it's necessary.

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by Weiser Wonder

IIRC, it still is a State right, in that it has never been incorporated under the Due Process clause of the 14th amendment. Which means, States do not have to follow the 2nd amendment only the Federal government does.

Correct, IIRC. D.C. v. Heller was a huge case decided this past year in the USSCT, which addressed gun laws being unconstitutional in DC. Similarly laws were recently passed allowing guns into national parks (federal jurisdiction).

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Well, maybe if they had more relaxed carry laws, one of the people in the building could have stopped the punks from killing as many as they did.

The Columbine killers did run into the police officer on duty in the school. He had a gun and exchanged fire with the killers. So the situation of someone with a gun being there to protect the students that you state as a hypothetical was a reality and didn't do anything.

Also, high schoolers with guns? You can't be serious.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

Well I am sure that strict constructionist from the early 19th century are rolling over in their graves at the liberal construction of the word "Arms". Judicial activism is running rampant in the states, with interpretations of the word that no reasonable person would place on the word arms. The activist judges have expanded the meaning of the word "Arms" through implication, including such things under the term "Arms" that were never intended. It is too bad, I bet guys like Scalia have a real intellectual problem with the ever expanding second amendment, each time a new gun is created, that somehow gets included in the word Arms

Wasn't the spirit of the law that average citizenry should have the right to all the weapons that the state has to prevent extreme forms of oppression of the state? How then could this be satisfied if citizens are only permitted hunting rifles while government entities have assualt rifles? We can argue the validity of whether or not those types of things are outdated or not, but the spirit was to include 'guns' in every sense of the word.

[TurnedTheCorner]

Did the spirits of the forefathers tell you the spirit of the amendment? Give me a ****ing break.

[tussery]

Originally Posted by nik-

I just had to laugh at this. No crap an ASSAULT RIFLE can work quite well in killing deer. So can a TOW missile. It doesn't mean it's necessary.

Have you ever seen an intermediate assault rifle round next to a game caliber round?

You really think hunting with deer with a .223 Rem or 7.62x39 is easier than hunting with a .30-06. Also the .30-06 round has probably killed more people world wide than any assault rifle round ever has.

[habernac]

"Assault weapons have gotten a lot of bad press lately, but they're manufactured for a reason: to take out today's modern super-animals, such as the flying squirrel and the electric eel."

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by TurnedTheCorner

Did the spirits of the forefathers tell you the spirit of the amendment?

Actually the intention/spirit of the Constitution is all based on interpretation. The Constitution and Amendments themselves are not very detailed, unlike the Canadian Constitution. The founding fathers of the US did not want something extremely rigid that wasn't flexible as the country grew and evolved. They essential gave the bare bone construction of a society and left the rest to be built as the country grew.

The real conflict is how to interpret the very few words of the Constitution. Strict Constructionalists like Scalia favor the era in which the Constitution was created and stay true to that when deciding cases (he believes that it's not the Court's place to decide the relevance or new age interpretation of laws, but rather work with existing laws given to the Court by the Legislature). Others are more judicially active and want to bend or adjust existing laws to conform with current events/times rather than create new laws.

I always viewed the Constitution as the foundation of the house. Things can be added on top and renovations can be made to accommodate new or changing needs. But, a change to the foundation is a fundamental change and should be approached with caution.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Cactus Jack

Yeah, USA! Woooooooooo!!! America, f*** yeah! Do you want to arm wrestle? I was so inspired by your rhetoric I'm going to driver a Hummer 160km per hour down a toll highway and blast some Springsteen while tossing gernades and styrofoam containers of the Big Macs I just inhaled on the side of the road. The US is the best! That's why they have never lost a war.

No one died this time. What about next time or the time after that? How many presidents of the US have been assassinated? And many, many, MANY civilized nations don't grant their citizens the "god-given right" to bare arms, and like Canada, have a much lower crime and murder rate per capita than the United States. But hey, if people want to carry guns and kill each other in the US, why do I care?

I'll be the bigger man here. I am offended by your post.