Family shuns 8 year old daughter after being raped by 4 youths

[MacFlame]

Originally Posted by EDBTZ12

Forcing is a pretty harsh word. I have many muslim (girl) friends who wear hijabs and none of them even suggest that they are forced. They do it because they believe in their religion.

Do you know anything about the catholic religion? They wear similiar clothing to muslims and some even cover their hair. Catholics were known to be the most strict and inequality was very present in the religion. Catholicism has changed a fair bit over the years but they used to operate with a iron fist and still do in some sects.

Im not trying to start a pissing war just giving my 2 cents.

This is an honest question..I really don't know the answer.

So if they are wearing it by their own choice because of their religon, is that not what the problem is? That the religion itself is demeaning? Is that not what the whole point of this conversation is about? Simply saying that they wear it beacause they believe in their religion, doesn't make the religion any less sexist...or demeaning.

Having said that, I realize I'm looking at this subject from a purely western/small town attitude and I probably don't really "get it". But please help me "get it".

[EDBTZ12]

Originally Posted by MacFlame

This is an honest question..I really don't know the answer.

So if they are wearing it by their own choice because of their religon, is that not what the problem is? That the religion itself is demeaning? Is that not what the whole point of this conversation is about? Simply saying that they wear it beacause they believe in their religion, doesn't make the religion any less sexist...or demeaning.

Having said that, I realize I'm looking at this subject from a purely western/small town attitude and I probably don't really "get it". But please help me "get it".

Ok i will help you get it. I've studied religion briefly in my mount royal option classes.

The women dont think it's demeaning at all. Im not gonna sit here and say 100 percent of women do it because they believe in their religion cause that's simply not true. There are radicals from every religion and even people that dont believe in any god still hold cultural beliefs.

The quran clearly says that a woman is a equal to a man. Not every muslim follows that but neither does every person from any other religion.

From the outside to a westerner like you and i we might see them as being unhappy because the only time the media shows them is when they are showing there house being bombed and their country being ripped to shreds.

I took a trip to Dubai last year and i can say the woman all smile and look happy and almost all of them wear hijabs.

In no way am i condoning what these parents did because if it was up to me id fly over and kick his ass myself but to blame a religion is totally unfair.

[MacFlame]

Originally Posted by EDBTZ12

Ok i will help you get it. I've studied religion briefly in my mount royal option classes.

The women dont think it's demeaning at all. Im not gonna sit here and say 100 percent of women do it because they believe in their religion cause that's simply not true. There are radicals from every religion and even people that dont believe in any god still hold cultural beliefs.

The quran clearly says that a woman is a equal to a man. Not every muslim follows that but neither does every person from any other religion.

From the outside to a westerner like you and i we might see them as being unhappy because the only time the media shows them is when they are showing there house being bombed and their country being ripped to shreds.

I took a trip to Dubai last year and i can say the woman all smile and look happy and almost all of them wear hijabs.

In no way am i condoning what these parents did because if it was up to me id fly over and kick his ass myself but to blame a religion is totally unfair.

So why do they wear it? Why is the religion asking them to wear it? This is what I don't get.

[EDBTZ12]

Originally Posted by MacFlame

So why do they wear it? Why is the religion asking them to wear it? This is what I don't get.

I really dont feel like answering this question because if you actually cared you would google that question and i gaurantee you in 15 minutes you will have all the knowledge you need.

[missdpuck]

^^ Right. And Dubai is not Afghanistan. As you already know EDBTZ12.

[MacFlame]

Originally Posted by EDBTZ12

I really dont feel like answering this question because if you actually cared you would google that question and i gaurantee you in 15 minutes you will have all the knowledge you need.

That's what I thought you'd say.

[EDBTZ12]

Originally Posted by MacFlame

That's what I thought you'd say.

then why did you ask? I know if i am intersted in something i usually do the research and learn. Don't expect me to type out a page essay because you are too lazy to do a google search.

[EDBTZ12]

Originally Posted by missdpuck

^^ Right. And Dubai is not Afghanistan. As you already know EDBTZ12.

Yes i know that but Dubai is a very islamic religious country also.

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Why do some people in some cultures act like animals. Certain animals shun their young in certain cases, but that's because they're animals. Humans should be above that.

Obviously what they did is wrong. But is it any different than our culture where once you turn 18 you're basically out the door.

Don't paint a whole culture in this if you haven't lived there, do some research and don't just go by what TV and the newspapers tell you.

[MacFlame]

Originally Posted by EDBTZ12

then why did you ask? I know if i am intersted in something i usually do the research and learn. Don't expect me to type out a page essay because you are too lazy to do a google search.

I asked, because I have yet to hear a real answer. An honest answer...one that deals with the issues of sexual inequality. One that you have not answered....and probably never will....because you do not know either.

Saying that someone is "happy" and smiling does not make the religion less sexist. There are many cults and beleif systems that people are quite happy to drink their Kool-aid and die....quite happily with smile on their face.

Look...it was an honest question.....I'll leave it alone.

[EDBTZ12]

Originally Posted by MacFlame

I asked, because I have yet to hear a real answer. An honest answer...one that deals with the issues of sexual inequality. One that you have not answered....and probably never will....because you do not know either.

Saying that someone is "happy" and smiling does not make the religion less sexist. There are many cults and beleif systems that people are quite happy to drink their Kool-aid and die....quite happily with smile on their face.

Look...it was an honest question.....I'll leave it alone.

No i totally understand it was a honest question and i gave a honest answer. I dont think we could ever understand religion fully thats why there is currently tension between almost every religion with different sects having slighlty different beliefs.

I do know the answer to why they wear it and it has to do with respect for themselves. I learnt that in my Religion studies class at MRC but google also has some pretty good articles you can read also.

[missdpuck]

Originally Posted by EDBTZ12

Yes i know that but Dubai is a very islamic religious country also.

My brother goes there often and says the only religion there is money.

On a serious note though it shows it.s not just the religion it is also the surrounding culture. I don't think you'd see Muslim women in Afghanistan buying sexy lingerie. But apparently in Dubai and Saudi Arabia it is done al the time.

[Da_Chief]

Here is the reason why Islam tells women to cover themselves up.

Ill give you 2 scenrios here.

#1) You've girl wearing a skirt and a somewhat revealing top.

#2) You've got a muslim girl, wearing a hijab and have herself covered.

Now which one would you desire to have? Society hasn't come far enough for you to tell me that you will ignore the girl whose revealing and look at both of them the same way. Even forget the girl with the hijab and compare 2 girls, one revealing and one isn't. The sexual desire still resides inside us. Who are you going to respect more? This can go back to the thread another user had not long ago, "girl in a mini skirt coming for an interview" what would you call her?

This goes well beyond just that, for example if you're married, looking at someone who is sexually inviting, will and has led to problems, affairs, marriages ending. Now if the women was covering herself and wasn't sexually inviting could problems like these be prevented? imo it will help.

I can go on and on, simple answer is respect and shame. By covering herself the women can and does avoid many problems.

[missdpuck]

Well said Da_Chief. In our own culture many women dress modestly to avoid being considered "skanks", and some , for whatever reason, show all they can. I don't think it's necessarily due to lack of self respect though.

[EDBTZ12]

Originally Posted by missdpuck

My brother goes there often and says the only religion there is money.

On a serious note though it shows it.s not just the religion it is also the surrounding culture. I don't think you'd see Muslim women in Afghanistan buying sexy lingerie. But apparently in Dubai and Saudi Arabia it is done al the time.

Very true actually hahaha. Money rules over there.

Actually Saudi Arabia is a very strict country to live in. I'm pretty sure they rule by islamic sharia law.

Dubai on the other hand is a islamic country but a more western style of culture.

[bcb]

Originally Posted by EDBTZ12

Very true actually hahaha. Money rules over there.

Actually Saudi Arabia is a very strict country to live in. I'm pretty sure they rule by islamic sharia law.

Dubai on the other hand is a islamic country but a more western style of culture.

I believe you are correct about Saudi Arabia. Citizens there belong to the strict Wababi Sect of Islam. (Basically the most puritan form of the religion)

There are actually religious police on the streets that enforce the "appropriate" dress code and ensure everyone is praying when the prayer bells ring.

[EDBTZ12]

Originally Posted by bcb

I believe you are correct about Saudi Arabia. Citizens there belong to the strict Wababi Sect of Islam. (Basically the most puritan form of the religion)

There are actually religious police on the streets that enforce the "appropriate" dress code and ensure everyone is praying when the prayer bells ring.

I think it's actually called Wasabi but anyways that's the same sect that Osama Bin Laden and his followers are part of.

[Azure]

The problem is that 'modest' and 'revealing' are subjective terms.

To some people, showing your ankles is 'revealing'....while to others a dress that stops at the knees isn't revealing at all.

Personally, I think that there is a bigger problem at hand in these cases than someone dressed like a skank, and 4 horny guys who couldn't control themselves.

[WesternCanadaKing]

Originally Posted by MacFlame

I asked, because I have yet to hear a real answer. An honest answer...one that deals with the issues of sexual inequality. One that you have not answered....and probably never will....because you do not know either.

Saying that someone is "happy" and smiling does not make the religion less sexist. There are many cults and beleif systems that people are quite happy to drink their Kool-aid and die....quite happily with smile on their face.

Look...it was an honest question.....I'll leave it alone.

The only 'rule' on how people should dress that the Qu'ran mentions is that men AND women should dress modestly. Thats it. How people have interpreted that has varied from culture to culture. Some cultures have intrepreted as women having to wear a full hijab while others are content with just a scarf over the hair. Whatever it is, its not seen as sexist within that culture but rather as a sign of respect towards God. Just like the turban is for the Sikh men or the kippah for Jewish men.

I remember there was this Muslim girl in my religion class who wore a scarf covering her hair. She said that she gets people saying 'This is Canada, you don't need to wear that here". But she wants to; its part of her way of life, its not about gender to her. Its about respect to God in her belief system.

[rubecube]

*Refrains from inappropriate comment that would act to conceal anger and grief*