Fox News alert: Captured U.S soldiers should be killed because they suck.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by peter12

How is the analyst anywhere short of being completely appropriate?

What do you mean by that?

He says that he hopes the Taliban kills an American soldier to save court costs. Isn't that short of being completely appropriate?

[starseed]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

What do you mean by that?

He says that he hopes the Taliban kills an American soldier to save court costs. Isn't that short of being completely appropriate?

You obviously have no idea what lawyers charge nowadays.

But ya, I may not know the whole story, but that guy is a grade A ###### for advocating the death of an American soldier at the hands of the Taleban.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by peter12

How is the analyst anywhere short of being completely appropriate?

He is on FOX news and therefore baised....duh?

[peter12]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

What do you mean by that?

He says that he hopes the Taliban kills an American soldier to save court costs. Isn't that short of being completely appropriate?

Only in the context of the soldier deserting his post and telling lies for the Taliban that can only have the effect of killing more American soldiers.

[CaptainCrunch]

The question has to be, if this kid walked away from his post and if he is indeed a deserter, then do you risk other American lives to go get him?

Unless the Taliban is stupid, and I don't think they are, they have a pretty strong propoganda piece right now, there's no real requirement to kill him. If he's willing to sell out in a few short days, then they might as well taliban the kid right now. "Hey junior, you'll live a lot longer if you start praying to Allah and chanting death to america on this tape"

I don't think unless your reading deep between the lines that this analyst was praying or preaching to the Taliban to kill him, to me it was more along the line of keep him, we're not going out of our way to rescue him.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by peter12

Only in the context of the soldier deserting his post and telling lies for the Taliban that can only have the effect of killing more American soldiers.

Well he's apparently purchased himself the deluxe version of the 'jump to conclusions mat'.

If it's proven that he was a deserter who allowed himself to be captured in order to assist the Taliban, then maybe he has a point. He would essentially be an enemy if that were the case. However, there's nothing to make that conclusion anything more than complete speculation. Maybe he wandered off because he's just a plain moron, maybe he was actually captured as part of a raid that the army would rather not admit to, maybe he resisted in the face of torture for a few days before giving in.

I think it's just plain idiotic, and incredibly inappropriate, to start throwing out lines like 'the Taliban could save us some court marshal costs' when there are a ton of unknowns in the scenario.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by valo403

Well he's apparently purchased himself the deluxe version of the 'jump to conclusions mat'.

If it's proven that he was a deserter who allowed himself to be captured in order to assist the Taliban, then maybe he has a point. He would essentially be an enemy if that were the case. However, there's nothing to make that conclusion anything more than complete speculation. Maybe he wandered off because he's just a plain moron, maybe he was actually captured as part of a raid that the army would rather not admit to, maybe he resisted in the face of torture for a few days before giving in.

I think it's just plain idiotic, and incredibly inappropriate, to start throwing out lines like 'the Taliban could save us some court marshal costs' when there are a ton of unknowns in the scenario.

Thats why its worthless to jump to conclusions.

However, the first thing thats drilled into any privates head is that you don't leave your post of duty for any reason whatsover, its bad. Even a moron can follow that standing order. I would doubt that he's was taken in a raid, the army has actually been pretty up front about reporting raids and fatalities.

I don't think anyone implied that he went off and defected, but it did sound like he wandered off on his own which is stupid.

When I first watched the tape a few days ago, my first thought was that this guy is in deep deep sh%t.

[Flashpoint]

From the article:

For the record, Ralph Peters has never seen combat; has never been anywhere close to combat. His “military service” consists of a stint in Germany during the mid-1980s, where he no doubt faced down the twin evils of disgusting sausages and horrible Euro-Pop. After which, he worked for U.S. Intelligence, and wrote ty spy novels with titles like “Flames of Heaven” and “Traitor,” while all the time never being within a thousand miles of an actual gun going off. Then he got hired by Fox. Which pretty much brings us up to date.

Why are there so many chickenhawks? And why does Fox constantly trot them out?

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by EDBTZ12

No i totally agree when i first read the article and then clicked on the youtube link i was waiting for him to say those exact words but they never came.

Guess the reporter just wanted to grab peoples attention and i'd say he succeeded.

So you did the EXACT same thing?

It is a good article to discuss, but since you apparently recognize that the title was misleading perhaps YOU could have used a more appropriate thread title.

You know you can go back and change the thread title.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Flashpoint

From the article:



Why are there so many chickenhawks? And why does Fox constantly trot them out?

You do know that there are lots of soldiers out there that aren't in combat specific roles, applying the tag chickenhawk to them is stupid and insulting.

First and foremost, the guy was a mustang, he started out as a private and was tapped for a commission. He did serve in a combat front line role with the 46th infantry battalion, and then later moved onto serve a tour with the 1st armoured division. He did work in a non combat role in Germany as an intelligence officer and his final role was as deputy chief for staff intelligence. He also retured in 1998 before the 9/11 crisis.

Basically anyone that attacks this guy on his lack of combat experience doesn't know what hes talking about, anyone that calls this guy a chickenhawk doesn't know what he's talking about.

And based on his credentials he knows far more about what he's talking about then anyone at those websites or anyone here for that matter.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Unless the Taliban is stupid, and I don't think they are, they have a pretty strong propoganda piece right now, there's no real requirement to kill him. If he's willing to sell out in a few short days, then they might as well taliban the kid right now. "Hey junior, you'll live a lot longer if you start praying to Allah and chanting death to america on this tape"

How is he a "pretty strong propaganda piece" exactly?

I know I know, they trot him out in front the camera to say America sucks and all the rest of it, but is there actually a person out there who listens to this and thinks "yeah, this guy is really onto something"? Propaganda is supposed to influence people. This kind of charade doesn't influence anyone.

Americans know what is going on when they see this -- they know he's either being told to do this with a gun to his head, or he's a moron. They don't think "hey, this soldier says Allah is great and we are wrong so maybe I'm turned around on the whole matter".

On the other side, people don't become terrorists or militants because some captured soldier says something against America.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

How is he a "pretty strong propaganda piece" exactly?

I know I know, they trot him out in front the camera to say America sucks and all the rest of it, but is there actually a person out there who listens to this and thinks "yeah, this guy is really onto something"? Propaganda is supposed to influence people. This kind of charade doesn't influence anyone.

Americans know what is going on when they see this -- they know he's either being told to do this with a gun to his head, or he's a moron. They don't think "hey, this soldier says Allah is great and we are wrong so maybe I'm turned around on the whole matter".

On the other side, people don't become terrorists or militants because some captured soldier says something against America.

Its a propaganda piece that would certainly act negatively back home in middle armerica. But more importantly its a great propaganda piece for the various different factions of the Taliban itself and other extreme groups especially after they've had what sounds like a pretty tough month both in Afghanistan and Pakistan in terms of casualites.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by valo403

Well he's apparently purchased himself the deluxe version of the 'jump to conclusions mat'.

If it's proven that he was a deserter who allowed himself to be captured in order to assist the Taliban, then maybe he has a point. He would essentially be an enemy if that were the case. However, there's nothing to make that conclusion anything more than complete speculation. Maybe he wandered off because he's just a plain moron, maybe he was actually captured as part of a raid that the army would rather not admit to, maybe he resisted in the face of torture for a few days before giving in.

I think it's just plain idiotic, and incredibly inappropriate, to start throwing out lines like 'the Taliban could save us some court marshal costs' when there are a ton of unknowns in the scenario.

A lot of the days of the week - but not all - I like Ralph Peters as a columnist. Always interesting, if nothing else, and more often than not so direct and to the point you can't help but laugh and wince at the same time. (His roughly 2007 column supporting the decision to enter Iraq while simultaneously laying a flaming licking all over GW Bush for the conduct of the conflict has to be some sort of classic.)

Still, I think he's way, way over the line with his comment about this solder.

If anything, by the accounts we've seen, the soldier appears to be a moron and nothing more nor less. Even if you're bored, homesick or chasing a sassy piece of woman who's waggled her bum in your direction at a lonely outpost . . . . . you couldn't possibly pick a worst place to go for an amble in the countryside by yourself.

He's undoubtedly a future dead guy but no, he's not a paperwork problem.

Secondly, in the first Gulf War we were treated to several American, Italian, British airmen shot down and captured in the first days of the conflict being shown on TV, black eyes and all, with all kinds of statements denouncing their governments. Apparently, in training for such an eventuality, that if it means saving their own lives, statements like these wouldn't be unexpected and would not be held against them later.

We saw some British seamen captured last year by Iran giving some statements similar as well before being released.

That's something a guy like Peters should know. Basically, these statements are an indication of torture and duress, not some acquiesence.

And yes, Julie Banderas is hot. And smart.

Cowperson

[bcb]

Basically, we don't know if he deserted or not and we can assume the propaganda statements are an attempt to save his own life. Could anyone typing on a computer in Calgary at 12:30AM conclusively say they wouldn't do the same thing in such a situation (to save their own life)?

Bottom line, pluck him out, THEN grill him if you have to.

[MJM]

I don't agree with the way this man is conveying his message, but I agree with the principle behind it. If you desert the army, there's no way in hell someone who was man enough to stay and complete their duties should have to put his life on the line to save that of a coward's.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by bcb

Basically, we don't know if he deserted or not and we can assume the propaganda statements are an attempt to save his own life. Could anyone typing on a computer in Calgary at 12:30AM conclusively say they wouldn't do the same thing in such a situation (to save their own life)?

Bottom line, pluck him out, THEN grill him if you have to.

If

The very valid thing that was said was that he's probably not in Afghanistan anymore. I doubt that there is enough intelligence to know where he is, put he's probably in the tribal region of Afghanistan.

The pragmatic solution is to count him as missing and not mount a rescue operation. My guess is that the U.S. will coordinate with the Pakistan Special Forces if they ever find out where this kind is.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by MJM

I don't agree with the way this man is conveying his message, but I agree with the principle behind it. If you desert the army, there's no way in hell someone who was man enough to stay and complete their duties should have to put his life on the line to save that of a coward's.

But the people who kidnapped him don't care if he is a deserter and would likey take any American, so you shouldn't let them get away with it just because the person taken now has allegations against them.