Location: A simple man leading a complicated life....
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Originally Posted by Thor
So is mine, so is every skeptic.
In fact it would be hard to find someone not excited about us discovering alien life or them communicating with us or even visiting us here.
At the same time we've had credible people come forward over the years with thier stories/sightings that add to the mystery of all this. I've been follwing the phenomina since i was a youth and have read a lot on the subject. My leanings are towards they exist. I hope that before i die this whole mystery is settled once and for all.
At the same time we've had credible people come forward over the years with thier stories/sightings that add to the mystery of all this. I've been follwing the phenomina since i was a youth and have read a lot on the subject. My leanings are towards they exist. I hope that before i die this whole mystery is settled once and for all.
Every credible person I've heard of has been debunked, and taking someone's word on this isn't enough for me. I too grew up fascinated by UFOs, Aliens and truly was in the believer camp.
I just think after all these years, all these ways we could prove IF they were really here something would have confirmed it by now, but as it stands eye witnesses are horrible sources in science, even now the legal system has realized how bad humans are at interpreting what they see and how they remember things.
I do believe advanced Aliens probably do exist, I just don't think they have come all the way to earth to be anally probing us and more importantly came all this way not to publicly say hi?
I wish it to be true, I really do, but wishing isn't enough for me; I need real evidence or for these shy aliens to just make themselves known to the whole world.
The burden of proof when making such a huge claim is on people claiming they know what they are.
Because you don't know for sure what it is, lends zero credence to claims they are of alien origin.
Sometimes proof is impossible, doesn't mean it didn't happen.
In 1970 my dad saw 3 glowing blue object's underwater between Cape Breton and Newfoundland, they seemed to be following along side the ferry for about 2 minutes and then very quickly they pulled ahead and were gone.estimations were at about 3 times the speed of the ferry (about 20 knots) Reflections from docking lights? nope,wrong color and they weren't on.Subs? even today there is no such submarine that could go anything close to that speed, 7 people watched these objects that night including the 1st officer of the ship. The incident was reported to the navy and a few days later all were told to "forget about it, it didn't happen" The local newspaper in Port aux Basques was about to print the story and from out of nowhere "what story?"
Up until that night my father found it hard to believe that man walked on the moon a year earlier but he went to his grave with the total belief that whatever those objects were...man didn't make them.
Personly in all my years of flying I only saw a few things that I couldn't explain because I was too far away, most likely they were nothing but I wouldn't call people crazy if they did see something. When up to 100 people see things (like Shag Harbor and lots others) and some skeptic tells them their seeing things it makes the skeptics look stupid IMO. If the skeptics are so smart how about explaining what it was, rather than what it wasn't.
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Sometimes proof is impossible, doesn't mean it didn't happen.
I think in this case proof is possible, if we were actually being visited.
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Up until that night my father found it hard to believe that man walked on the moon a year earlier but he went to his grave with the total belief that whatever those objects were...man didn't make them.
See this is the tough part for believers because everyone has someone close to them that swears by a story like this, my sister ironically an atheist is certain she saw a ghost as a child of a deceased great aunt. Humans are terrible at judging distance, comprehending things they are not familiar with.
I have no idea what your father saw, and I have no doubt he saw something. But to assume its alien in origin is taking it above what I would take it as, something he couldn't explain.
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Personly in all my years of flying I only saw a few things that I couldn't explain because I was too far away, most likely they were nothing but I wouldn't call people crazy if they did see something.
I don't call them crazy, there are nut jobs who are part of this UFO culture, just go to any conference regarding UFOs and you'll see what I mean. These people saw something they couldn't explain, then they decided it was alien and wualla its explained, no longer a UFO its an alien craft.
If people leave it as UFO, I'm fine with that, lots of weird things happen we can't yet explain.
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When up to 100 people see things (like Shag Harbor and lots others) and some skeptic tells them their seeing things it makes the skeptics look stupid IMO.
Well somebody has to be Joe Buzzkill, because if we never asked for evidence or looked at these situations without a critical/skeptical approach we'd be much worse off as a society.
Because 100 or 10000 people see something doesn't make it any more likely to be true, just ask the guys who did the UFO hoax, which Troutman already posted a few weeks ago:
If the skeptics are so smart how about explaining what it was, rather than what it wasn't.
Its what you say it was Unidentified, we don't know, so how can we explain it? We can guess at likely possibilities, because of the many thousands of sightings that have been explained we can suggest people read those explanations and see if any of them fit what they saw. Or its just something we can't explain.
Location: A simple man leading a complicated life....
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Originally Posted by Thor
I just think after all these years, all these ways we could prove IF they were really here something would have confirmed it by now, but as it stands eye witnesses are horrible sources in science, even now the legal system has realized how bad humans are at interpreting what they see and how they remember things.
Problem is it hasn't been proven that they don't exist. Incidents like the Shag harbour have yet to be explained away. It's automaticly assumed that it can't be true so the people involved were seeing things or are not reliable.
Location: A simple man leading a complicated life....
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Originally Posted by Thor
Its what you say it was Unidentified, we don't know, so how can we explain it? We can guess at likely possibilities, because of the many thousands of sightings that have been explained we can suggest people read those explanations and see if any of them fit what they saw. Or its just something we can't explain.
Unidentified is not an answer but merely a cop out to not finding the truth. It's not proof that something doesn't exist.
Problem is it hasn't been proven that they don't exist. Incidents like the Shag harbour have yet to be explained away. It's automaticly assumed that it can't be true so the people involved were seeing things or are not reliable.
Problem is it hasn't been proven that it wasn't unicorns. Problem is it hasn't been proven that it wasn't angels. Problem is it hasn't been proven that it wasn't lit farts.
See the problem with that line of reasoning?
Unanswered questions are not evidence.
To look at the unexplained phenomenon and attribute them to aliens over something else is just confirmation bias.
__________________ Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position.
But certainty is an absurd one.
Unidentified is not an answer but merely a cop out to not finding the truth. It's not proof that something doesn't exist.
It's not an answer, but it's not a cop out either. How is it a cop out to admit there is insufficient information?
Of course it's not proof that something doesn't exist, but to prove that there are no aliens visiting earth in any form you would basically need to be omniscient.
__________________ Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position.
But certainty is an absurd one.
I have no idea what your father saw, and I have no doubt he saw something. But to assume its alien in origin is taking it above what I would take it as, something he couldn't explain.
Maybe someday they'll find a round glowing blue whale with no moving parts that can swim at 60 knots. (my dad said that once)
I can be skeptical as the next person when I hear of aliens and flying saucers but sometimes when things are seen by masses of people the governments just look so damn guilty in the way they sweep it under the rug.
Even last year as 100's(including a mayor,policemen and a priest) of people reported a huge UFO over texas and then seeing up to ten F-16's chasing it the Airforce refused to admit they had any jets in the area that day, after coming under fire with radar evidence they finally admit they made a mistake and that jets were flying in the Stephenville area that evening. when pressed about what they were chasing a Wing spokesman says: "The Air Force no longer investigates UFOs."
I guess this means I can build a strange looking aircraft and fly over US airspace and not be investigated
Location: A simple man leading a complicated life....
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Originally Posted by photon
It's not an answer, but it's not a cop out either. How is it a cop out to admit there is insufficient information?
Of course it's not proof that something doesn't exist, but to prove that there are no aliens visiting earth in any form you would basically need to be omniscient.
It's a cop out when you use that term as opposed to finding out the truth. It's just to easy to say unidentified and leave it at that.
Maybe someday they'll find a round glowing blue whale with no moving parts that can swim at 60 knots. (my dad said that once)
lol you never know.
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I can be skeptical as the next person when I hear of aliens and flying saucers but sometimes when things are seen by masses of people the governments just look so damn guilty in the way they sweep it under the rug.
What if all the government is doing is ignoring something they don't think is relevant or they are indeed involved in classified projects such as aerospace and don't want to admit or let on what they are doing.
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Even last year as 100's(including a mayor,policemen and a priest) of people reported a huge UFO over texas
This is a common tactic in trying to show that a mayor or a policeman somehow could be better at eyewitness testimony than say a janitor. The fact is 10,000 of thousands in the hoax I linked to earlier saw UFOs, and the media went to a pilot because apparently pilots are experts on UFOs and the skies.
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I guess this means I can build a strange looking aircraft and fly over US airspace and not be investigated
Or its a military project they don't want people to know about.
Also for historical perspective, lets not forget Mariners have for thousands of years sighted sea monsters, been attacked by sea monsters and all kinds of crazy creatures from the sea.
Now the experts back then were Mariners, so why didn't it turn out there were these horrendous monsters as drawn and explained by those certain of them?
We certainly know some sightings back then had to be of Giant Squids, so theres a percentage attributed to that, but lets not ignore the drawings and descriptions made by mariners of monsters in the sea.
Safe to say back then monsters in the sea were much like Alien sightings today are, its Carl Sagan's Demon Haunted World, just now its aliens instead of demons, monsters, etc..
It's a cop out when you use that term as opposed to finding out the truth. It's just to easy to say unidentified and leave it at that.
Just using the word doesn't mean that one will stop at that and not try to find out more. The whole history of science is answering the billion page list of "I don't know" questions one after the other, so obviously "I don't know" isn't an obstacle to further inquiry.
Watching youtube videos or programs put together to get more $$ from advertisers by channels the unwashed masses see has having "credibility" isn't finding out the truth. Anecdotal evidence isn't.
__________________ Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position.
But certainty is an absurd one.
What if all the government is doing is ignoring something they don't think is relevant or they are indeed involved in classified projects such as aerospace and don't want to admit or let on what they are doing.
For over 60 years they still cover up the Roswell incident like it never happened, what possibly could have happened in 1947 that could be classified now? unless of course it was a spacecraft that crashed there. Or maybe their just stubborn and like the publicity that makes them look like liars.
Thor, your a skeptic and thats fine but at least admit that the governments tend to squash the big events and look stupid doing so.
Just look at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base (hanger 18) It doesn't house secret aircraft for testing,nukes..etc. it's mostly used for the heavy hauls of the airforce (C-5 etc.) yet there are 3 buildings there that the president couldn't get in. It's on par with area 51 but at least Nellis has a history of secret aircraft testing and atomic bomb testing. Every time someone asks what those buildings are used for they just get "what buildings?"
I met a guy (civilian) who worked on that base a few years back, I asked him if he every asked about what takes place there. He said during his interview he was told anyone who asks any questions about the base if fired pronto..don't ever ask or talk about the base...ever.
For over 60 years they still cover up the Roswell incident like it never happened, what possibly could have happened in 1947 that could be classified now? unless of course it was a spacecraft that crashed there. Or maybe their just stubborn and like the publicity that makes them look like liars.
Again your assuming a lot in order to have this opinion, I think they covered up high atmosphere balloons that monitored the evil communist nuclear testing, paranoia that time in US history was beyond high.
Its not a cover up, more likely its the answer you don't like because its boring and part of the typical paranoia of information the military likes to protect.
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Thor, your a skeptic and thats fine but at least admit that the governments tend to squash the big events and look stupid doing so.
Oh I distrust the government as much as you do, especially the military. There is a great deal on the line with major industry and 10's of billions of dollars at stake. But I don't think there's a cover up of any alien crash.
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Just look at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base (hanger 18) It doesn't house secret aircraft for testing,nukes..etc. it's mostly used for the heavy hauls of the airforce (C-5 etc.) yet there are 3 buildings there that the president couldn't get in. It's on par with area 51 but at least Nellis has a history of secret aircraft testing and atomic bomb testing. Every time someone asks what those buildings are used for they just get "what buildings?"
Again, not sure what that's about, if you can provide links to where a president was refused access I'd love to see them.
Like photon and others have said, denial or lack of acknowledgment isn't proof of anything, you have assumed a lot in suggesting not only that there's a massive conspiracy which would require literally thousands of people to keep quiet about the biggest discovery in human history, but that we know secrecy amongst high tech development in the military and private sector is beyond what you could imagine, these people are protecting private inventions worth billions and in the eyes of the military protecting technology that gives their country a huge edge in war and future conflict.
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I met a guy (civilian) who worked on that base a few years back, I asked him if he every asked about what takes place there. He said during his interview he was told anyone who asks any questions about the base if fired pronto..don't ever ask or talk about the base...ever.
Sorry but that's plain weird in my mind.
Why is that weird, that's common amongst intelligence officials from all countries, there are people with access and people without. Need to know isn't about cover up, its about protecting lives and holding advantages in the intelligence industry.
CIA employees experience this daily, there are multi level access, those with the access don't ever discuss what they know, those below are not only expected to accept they can't know more than they are allowed to, but to not be upset by it. Difficult at best, considering human curiosity.
Instead of considering this is about secrecy in military and intelligence you suggest its aliens and government cover ups.
Or maybe their just stubborn and like the publicity that makes them look like liars.
