Worthless Human leaves 21 month old son in Car for 6 hours while he gambles

[KTrain]

Ok, so it is the outcome then that people are judging him on.

If he had gone into his office for an hour, said, "Oh " and went back to his car to get his child safely, would he still be a terrible person?

Antithesis, if your kid had fallen down the basement stairs and got hurt (or worse) would you be a terrible parent?

fatso, hypothetically speaking, if you got stoned and forgot to pick your kid up at school/daycare, are you a terrible parent?

It's still negligence because you're not being mindful of your child at all times.

If we're only judging these based on outcomes (fatalities) then do we have to say that accidents resulting in fatalities can't happen or if they Kids can't drown. Crash their bikes. If a child dies because a parent isn't 100% mindful are they liable?

I guess the big thing about this story is that the child was dependent on the parent and this ended up getting him killed.

[fatso]

Originally Posted by KTrain

Ok, so it is the outcome then that people are judging him on.

If he had gone into his office for an hour, said, "Oh " and went back to his car to get his child safely, would he still be a terrible person?

Antithesis, if your kid had fallen down the basement stairs and got hurt (or worse) would you be a terrible parent?

fatso, hypothetically speaking, if you got stoned and forgot to pick your kid up at school/daycare, are you a terrible parent?

It's still negligence because you're not being mindful of your child at all times.

If we're only judging these based on outcomes (fatalities) then do we have to say that accidents resulting in fatalities can't happen or if they Kids can't drown. Crash their bikes. If a child dies because a parent isn't 100% mindful are they liable?

I guess the big thing about this story is that the child was dependent on the parent and this ended up getting him killed.

ha ha ha... classic. i noticed a similar comment in an earlier post of yours but didn't comment on it. what a dink...

I definitely agree with you that this cannot be outcome-based otherwise you end up with the NHL wheel of justice. It has to be the negligent action itself which is judged and you're right those are all examples of negligence.

But some negligence is worse than others isn't it? You're asking if, when a child dies because a parent isn't 100% mindful, whether they ought to be liable. Truth is, I don't know. It's all circumstance based though isn't it? There could never be a hard-and-fast rule for prosecuting such negligence, particularly since as you say good parents can and will make bad mistakes. But the flipside must be true too though... there are some bad mistakes that good parents will never make. Is forgetting your child in a car one of them? Seems like we're not going to agree on that point.

[Locke]

Silly children...sleeping in cars is for drunks and grownups.

[4X4]

Heh. I'm missing the point? You're rambling on about how the guy is a terrible person. What are you trying to establish? That he's terrible? You've got a problem with the author because he humanizes the tragedy?

And contrary to your feeling of self importance, I don't hang around here to disagree with you. I disagree with you when you're being...######ed.

[fatso]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Heh. I'm missing the point? You're rambling on about how the guy is a terrible person. What are you trying to establish? That he's terrible? You've got a problem with the author because he humanizes the tragedy?

And contrary to your feeling of self importance, I don't hang around here to disagree with you. I disagree with you when you're being...######ed.

4X4, once again you provide nothing of substance to a thread on a very interesting issue, other than to disrupt a very civil debate. (see your wonderfully insightful and provocative comments in the '######' thread).

I think it's obvious I think you're a dullard so let me try to explain to you what's happening here. Overall K-Train and I are debating whether these acts should be labelled terrible. It seems to me such a definition is first and foremost crucial to even contemplating criminal prosecution. We're obviously on different sides. As for the article specifically, I thought I made it clear I didn't want to engage a discussion on it and that it was merely a launching point for a broader discussion.

That said, what is your endgame here? We're having a discussion. Even if I am wrong clearly what I'm saying is not irrelevant as KTrain and others are responding to it. So what's your point? Why are you worried about my rambling? Would you like to limit the scope of the discussion?

[flambers]

Originally Posted by KTrain

Ok, so it is the outcome then that people are judging him on.

If he had gone into his office for an hour, said, "Oh " and went back to his car to get his child safely, would he still be a terrible person?

Antithesis, if your kid had fallen down the basement stairs and got hurt (or worse) would you be a terrible parent?

fatso, hypothetically speaking, if you got stoned and forgot to pick your kid up at school/daycare, are you a terrible parent?

It's still negligence because you're not being mindful of your child at all times.

If we're thesonly judging e based on outcomes (fatalities) then do we have to say that accidents resulting in fatalities can't happen or if they Kids can't drown. Crash their bikes. If a child dies because a parent isn't 100% mindful are they liable?

I guess the big thing about this story is that the child was dependent on the parent and this ended up getting him killed.

What are you talking about....ITS A CRIME to leave your 2 year old kid in a car alone for 6 hours...end of story. Could not give a crap what his reason were DON"T do it.

Yes its still a crime to leave your 2 year old kid in your car for 1 hour.

As for your examples they are terrible... you compare this story to a child left at day care and or school...? Or a child falling down the stairs.... or a child in a bike accident....

Not to mention the Fireman found the kid at midnight. It was freezing cold outside...

[KTrain]

Originally Posted by flambers

What are you talking about....ITS A CRIME to leave your 2 year old kid in a car alone for 6 hours...end of story. Could not give a crap what his reason were DON"T do it.

Yes its still a crime to leave your 2 year old kid in your car for 1 hour.

As for your examples they are terrible... you compare this story to a child left at day care and or school...? Or a child falling down the stairs.... or a child in a bike accident....

Not to mention the Fireman found the kid at midnight. It was freezing cold outside...

Flambers, we're talking about the second article in this thread, not about the waste of skin in the original post.

Those other examples were in relation to parents being unintentionally negligent in regards to their children. I related those examples to leaving a kid a car because in all cases it is negligence. Obviously there are varying degrees of negligence though.

You're right, it is a crime to leave your child in a car unattended. We were debating whether the person should be considered a "terrible person" because they forgot about their child in a car (there was no intent).

[Antithesis]

KTrain, I don't know if I'm explaining myself right and I'm probably making myself look like a complete fool in this thread, but I'll dust myself off and try again ...

I don't think your examples are the best and I suppose that's partly caused by me not fully explaining myself - in our specific case there's a baby gate to keep our son from going downstairs as it's under construction - we have cats and need the door open - but that's beside the point.

The father in the article you posted did not provide his child with something needed for survival (being out of the car when it was remarkably hot outside) ... there is absolutely nothing forgivable about that to me and it marks complete failure as a parent. Perhaps the label "terrible person" isn't the right one but I do think the point remains ... there is a huge difference between forgetting a child at a day care and leaving them in a roasting hot car.

[KTrain]

Originally Posted by Antithesis

KTrain, I don't know if I'm explaining myself right and I'm probably making myself look like a complete fool in this thread, but I'll dust myself off and try again ...

I don't think your examples are the best and I suppose that's partly caused by me not fully explaining myself - in our specific case there's a baby gate to keep our son from going downstairs as it's under construction - we have cats and need the door open - but that's beside the point.

The father in the article you posted did not provide his child with something needed for survival (being out of the car when it was remarkably hot outside) ... there is absolutely nothing forgivable about that to me and it marks complete failure as a parent. Perhaps the label "terrible person" isn't the right one but I do think the point remains ... there is a huge difference between forgetting a child at a day care and leaving them in a roasting hot car.

I agree with what you're saying. The daycare and other examples were to show that parents can forget or not be 100% aware of their kids at all times.

The death of a child under those circumstances does warrant the phrase "complete failure as a parent" but that doesn't mean, at least to me, that the individual is a terrible person. That's all I'm saying. Too often we're quick to condemn people in these situations without fully understanding the story. Then again, that happens in most "news" stories.

[redforever]

And this father was given house arrest.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/calgary/sto...e.html?ref=rss

The single father was given a 12-month conditional sentence, which includes three months of house arrest, during which he can still go to work, and six months with a curfew. The judge also imposed a 12-month ban on gambling in casinos, bingo halls or any place with video lottery terminals.

[Traditional_Ale]

So do I understand this? For example:

Turning around just in time to see little Johnny throw himself down the expert run at the ski hill and kill himself bent around a tree (while finishing zipping up little Suzie,s snow suit) is not a criminally neglegent act.

Leaving them in a sweltering car (or freezing car) for any reason, is.

????

[CaptainCrunch]

banner couple of days for the Canadian Justice system.

What the frick is wrong with these people.