Debunking Psychics, Mediums, etc...

[4X4]

It seriously amazes me that anyone believes any of this type of garbage. Psychics...Pfft. Palm reading, tarot cards, astrology... It just so stupid. Every so often I glance at my horoscope in the paper and inevitably it's some vague crap about life: "Now is a great time to look at that new opportunity". How amazingly profound! "You will meet someone new today". Really? That happens every day. Does the server at whatever place I eat my lunch at count?

I suppose I can kinda understand why some people are entertained by astrology. It generally tends to be women (at least as far as my encounters go). Of course, there's lots of stuff that entertains women that I think is just a total waste of time. Alot of chicks I know think the whole shut-out superstition is ridiculous.

What really gets me are these televangelists that actually manage to dupe people into giving them money. It really is true what they say about a fool and his money.

[Frank the Tank]

Originally Posted by HOZ

Pictures and explanation please....

Its easy. To do the one where he just comes off of the ground for a small group of people, its all about angles. He is actually just pushing himself up on one toe. If you watch, the group of people are always behind him, off to the side a bit. In his set-up, he appears to be focusing, but he is actually just getting the angle right. Its hard to explain over the internet. Anyone can do it though.

[icarus]

Originally Posted by Puxlut

I just finished reading Houdini's biography and he was a HUGE debunker of spiritualists even though he was a beleiver of life after death (he had a weird relationship with his mother and spent fortunes going to seances to try to talk with her)

He ultimately realized that they were all fake and spent years and alot of his own money traveling across the states proving they were fake. He was a member of Scientific American where he posted a reward for a real "medium"... the reward was never claimed.

There is a recent movie about exactly this, starring Catherine Zeta-Zones and the girl from Atonement. I forget the name--The Escapist maybe?--I saw it on a plane.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by Frank the Tank

Its easy. To do the one where he just comes off of the ground for a small group of people, its all about angles. He is actually just pushing himself up on one toe. If you watch, the group of people are always behind him, off to the side a bit. In his set-up, he appears to be focusing, but he is actually just getting the angle right. Its hard to explain over the internet. Anyone can do it though.

HAY!... I still want the pictures of the dumbass' face!....

Actually your explanation was good...now I remember...on the toe behind the other leg...bit

[FlamesAddiction]

I believe some people have abnormally acute intuition and instinct senses that can be compared to, or mistaken for, psychic abilities. Intuition is a human ability just like any other, and just like how on rare occasions phenoms are born who have uncanny abilities is the realms of science and art, I believe that some people are born with senses of intuition that are so strong, they can "see" things that others cannot.

For the record, I am not saying that spirits are involved or anything like that. I do believe though that the natural world around us gives us signals that for most people are only picked up on a subconscious level (instinct), but for some people, they can perceive it on a more conscious level. Some of those people probably really do believe that they are "psychic".

[troutman]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I believe some people have abnormally acute intuition and instinct senses that can be compared to, or mistaken for, psychic abilities. Intuition is a human ability just like any other, and just like how on rare occasions phenoms are born who have uncanny abilities is the realms of science and art, I believe that some people are born with senses of intuition that are so strong, they can "see" things that others cannot.

For the record, I am not saying that spirits are involved or anything like that. I do believe though that the natural world around us gives us signals that for most people are only picked up on a subconscious level (instinct), but for some people, they can perceive it on a more conscious level. Some of those people probably really do believe that they are "psychic".

I don't think any psychic has ever demonstrated an ability to predict things better than random luck.

[Temporary_User]

Along the same lines of psychics, I believe that I can travel through time.
Although technically all I'm doing is drinking till I blackout.

[PsYcNeT]

PREPARE TO BE AMAZED!

[Bob]

This thread is full of win.

[CaptainCrunch]

I remember seeing an add for Jo Jo the psychic, one of the sell lines was that she predicted the death of her brother. What they don't mention is that she didn't warn him.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by troutman

I don't think any psychic has ever demonstrated an ability to predict things better than random luck.

Yeah. I think experience and wisdom can give you remarkable predictive abilities, but only in the logical way in which these things work.

Psychics are just liars and frauds.

[PsYcNeT]

I'm not about to rule out the possible existance of a person or people who can 'see' the future or 'read' minds, but I would bet $15 million that if these people exist, they sure as hell don't tell people about it, or if they have, they are locked in a CIA/KGB/Chinese military bunker somewhere, being forced to search for terrorists or something stupid.

Any public figure touting such skills is most definately a con-artist.

[Bob]

Oh wow, I could spend hours and hours just reading the James Randi challenge site. I had no idea they had a forum!

[old-fart]

Originally Posted by troutman

I've told this story a few times here:

A "psychic" wanted to retain me to sue a newspaper on the grounds of discrimination, for refusing to run her ads. I told her she would have to prove that she was psychic - I asked her "what am I thinking right now"? She hung up the phone.

Anyone could have guessed what I was thinking, and she couldn't even do that.

Oh, oh... can I play? I'm seeing you, sitting, trying to stiffle a laugh.... and... and you're thinking.... something with a cow... no... wait, it's a bull..... I can't quite make it out.... a bull..... and.... Marc-Andre Pouliout...... no... wait.... his nickname maybe.... no maybe it's really him.....

Originally Posted by Puxlut

I just finished reading Houdini's biography and he was a HUGE debunker of spiritualists even though he was a beleiver of life after death (he had a weird relationship with his mother and spent fortunes going to seances to try to talk with her)

He ultimately realized that they were all fake and spent years and alot of his own money traveling across the states proving they were fake. He was a member of Scientific American where he posted a reward for a real "medium"... the reward was never claimed.

James Randi actually explained this on Carson once. Houdini actually offered a reward if he couldn't duplicate the "amazing feat" from any medium. While that is pretty good and the reward was never claimed, it didn't go quite as far as Randi. He will pay $1M if you can prove your "abilities" to an independant panel.

The difference is, of course, that if I had real ESP (lets say), I could show Houdini and he could figure out some trick way to fake it. Doesn't necessarily mean I was faking it, just that he could duplicate it somehow.

Randi just asks you to prove it, with certain controls in place to ensure no cheating. All he asks Sylvia Browne to do is 10 readings for 10 people that actually believe in her. Give him (Randi) the readings, and he'll shuffle them up then give them to the 10 people. His point is that the 10 people should be easily able to pick out which of the 10 readings are for them, but if they are so generic that they could apply to anyone (and they will be), they'll be wrong more than they are right.

After initially agreeing to be tested and claim the $1M, she has never actually taken him up on it. Her latest excuse is that he is not a "Godly" man. Whatever.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by troutman

I don't think any psychic has ever demonstrated an ability to predict things better than random luck.

Not surprising since probably 99.99% of people to make a claim that they are psychic are attention seekers, while any person with a keen sense of intuition and instinctual abilities would likely live in obscurity somewhere.

Just like how the best athlete in the world is likely some unknown person living in a place like Kenya who runs routine marathons for food and water, the people who are intuitively gifted are likely living in some remote areas away from technology where intuition and instict are required more for survival.

You can Google search Scientific theories on psychic abilities and there are numerous articles (including some in peer reviewed journals).

It wasn't that long ago that anyone who used natural phenomena in science was thought to have super natural powers. Eventually our understanding of the natural world has changed enough that we know people aren't "witches". We know so little about the human brain, I wouldn't discount anything completely. Essentially, we know as much about the human brain as medieval Europeans knew about things like chemistry and physics, so I would be weary of falling into any assumptions about psychics like they did about witches.

[PsYcNeT]

I blame Stephen King entirely for the 'Psychic Detective' phenomena.

If that jerk had never written "Dead Zone", we wouldn't have to put up with these charlatans.

[awildermode]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

I'm not about to rule out the possible existance of a person or people who can 'see' the future or 'read' minds, but I would bet $15 million that if these people exist, they sure as hell don't tell people about it, or if they have, they are locked in a CIA/KGB/Chinese military bunker somewhere, being forced to search for terrorists or something stupid.

Any public figure touting such skills is most definately a con-artist.

...just like the people with abilities on Heroes.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

I'm not about to rule out the possible existance of a person or people who can 'see' the future or 'read' minds, but I would bet $15 million that if these people exist, they sure as hell don't tell people about it, or if they have, they are locked in a CIA/KGB/Chinese military bunker somewhere, being forced to search for terrorists or something stupid.

Any public figure touting such skills is most definately a con-artist.

I'd guess that anybody that can read minds, in the true sense would be in the loony bin. Imagine all the thoughts coming in from from everyone and trying to make sense of it.

I'd also guess that the ones who can make people believe that they have some kind of ESP, are just good readers of people by looking at how they dress, their temperament, their body language and physical condition, their voice, etc. Also when people go to one of these charlatans, they are probably a little desperate and so are vulnerable. Just my thoughts on something I try to stay far away from.

Well sometimes I'll throw coins for an I Ching reading for amusement, but I don't need anyone else to interpret the results.

[photon]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

It wasn't that long ago that anyone who used natural phenomena in science was thought to have super natural powers. Eventually our understanding of the natural world has changed enough that we know people aren't "witches". We know so little about the human brain, I wouldn't discount anything completely. Essentially, we know as much about the human brain as medieval Europeans knew about things like chemistry and physics, so I would be weary of falling into any assumptions about psychics like they did about witches.

The difference is even if you know nothing about chemistry or physics, you can still get results. We had food, medicine of a sort, etc all based on "chemistry".. no one knew what was going on, but trial and error over a long period still led to results. Same with physics, no one knew anything about how it all worked, but we still built wheels and wagons and inclines and machines and stuff to make our lives easier.. through trial and error and serendipity.

And then when we figured out what we were doing and actually intentionally did it (science), things really took off.

Psychics and astrologers and paranormal practitioners have been around for thousands and thousands of years, but they haven't come up with one thing that's improved our lives.

You can point to thousands of things that were discovered by accident or trial and error before science that enabled humanity to evolve, and move from hunter gatherers into a globe dominating society, because those things are real. You can do no such thing for any psychic, astrologer, faith healer, etc etc...

[PsYcNeT]

^ What he said

It's just entertainment, but a very dangerous kind...like juggling chainsaws or tiger wrestling.

BTW Photon, your sig is awesome