Advice: Going back to school, in your 30's

[moon]

Originally Posted by DESS

I think going back in your mid 30s is a terrible idea,

Thats because you are a huge idiot.

unless of course you have rich parents that can subsidize your schooling costs, your life while in school, and the years after school as you struggle with earning a starting salary at 40ish.

So no chance that he has made money and saved in the 15 or so years that he has been working?

No chance that he can get a decent job out of school?

And this would also presuppose you would be willing to take their money even though you are an adult, which is a tad unmanly, IMO. (much like using the word "tad" is unmanly, lol)

So its cool for chicks to take money as an adult?

Also. much better for parents to horde then money until they are dead and then give it to their kids when the kids are likely old enough to not need it?

It would be terrible to give your kids money while you are still alive to see them enjoy it and put it to use when they actually need it.

If you do not have rich parents, here is the bigger problem. School should be looked at as an investment. Your career is likely not going to earn you enough money to give you a payoff on your investment. Say you work until you're 55 or 60...that's only 15-20 years of work after your degree. You're going to have to do a calculation kind of like this to see if this is worthwhile:

ROI = [what you can realistically make with the degree over course of your career after you graduate - what you would realistically make had you not earned a degree over the same time period] - [(cost of education including living expenses, tuition, books, etc.) + (loss of salary calculated at approximately your current rate for the four years you're in school) + (interest on any loans you may need to finance your education)]

If this new job has him making 10,000 more a year it is easy to make any money invested in school back. Any more than that and it obviously gets much easier.

And heaven forbid he actually does this for non-financial reasons and because he wants to have a better lifestyle/job life for himself. That would be a really stupid reason to do anything!

I hope that makes sense, but my point is from a purely financial perspective, this is likely a very bad idea in that you're going to end up with a negative return on investment, particularly because you're exploring a career that isn't going to be very lucrative.

How do you know how lucrative his career is going to be? There is money to be made in any area of schooling/employment.

Hell he might go into a job that involves killing bears and I find it hard to believe that the return on that investment wouldn't be worth it!

[DESS]

I'm afraid my post went over your head, Moon. Or you prejudged it because you don't like me. I will pray for you my friend.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by DESS

I hope that makes sense, but my point is from a purely financial perspective,

Yeah thats pretty apparent. Not everybody evaluates the major decisions in their life solely from a financial perspective.

A lot of people don't want to spend 20 years of their life doing something they don't enjoy just to make some money that they can barely use because they are so busy working all the time.

I went back to school in the my mid 20's and it was the best decision I could have made. Got me out of a well paying software development job and learning about stuff that I was interested in. Would make the same decision again and again.

[troutman]

Sometimes I wear a tweed jacket with elbow patches, and just hang around student pubs to meet co-eds.

[onetwo_threefour]

You are a very narrowly focused person Dess. Do you accept that there are other valid points of view beyond your own?

You call people illogical who disagree with your stance on bear killing, you believe that the Christian minority of Calgary should rise up and take charge of a completely non religious major international event, and you accuse someone of orejudging your post when they took the time to dissect each point you made.

[DESS]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Yeah thats pretty apparent. Not everybody evaluates the major decisions in their life solely from a financial perspective.

A lot of people don't want to spend 20 years of their life doing something they don't enjoy just to make some money that they can barely use because they are so busy working all the time.

I went back to school in the my mid 20's and it was the best decision I could have made. Got me out of a well paying software development job and learning about stuff that I was interested in. Would make the same decision again and again.

Mid 20s is a different story. You should have gone back and you will very likely benefit from your decision. Good for you, dude.

Mid 30s is a totally different ball of wax. And the financial component of it is extremely important as he has to consider his inabilitiy (or limited ability) to save towards retirement during the time he is in school, while paying back student loans, and while he has a starting salary straight out of school and will not likely being making much money.

Yes maybe his life will be more fulfilling on one level, but if he then has to work an extra five years to recoup his investment, he is selling his retirment short.

If he's not happy with his current job, there are a lot of things he could do that don't include going to school, which is a poor financial decision with ramifications that extend beyond his bank account/line of credit.

[DESS]

Originally Posted by onetwo_threefour

You are a very narrowly focused person Dess. Do you accept that there are other valid points of view beyond your own?

You call people illogical who disagree with your stance on near killing, you believe that the Christian minority of Calgary should rise up and take charge of a completely non religious major international event, and you accuse someone of orejudging your post when they took the time to dissect each point you made.

He took the time to dissect my post, and normally I would have taken time to respond to him. I think if nothing else I've shown that I am willing to explain myself to you guys. I didn't bother with that one because, frankly, I didn't think he was actually reading my posts...just trying to discredit me without putting to much thought into it. I simply returned the favour.

BTW, you have embellished what I've said as well.

[moon]

Originally Posted by DESS

Mid 20s is a different story. You should have gone back and you will very likely benefit from your decision. Good for you, dude.

Mid 30s is a totally different ball of wax. And the financial component of it is extremely important as he has to consider his inabilitiy (or limited ability) to save towards retirement during the time he is in school, while paying back student loans, and while he has a starting salary straight out of school and will not likely being making much money.

Yes maybe his life will be more fulfilling on one level, but if he then has to work an extra five years to recoup his investment, he is selling his retirment short.

If he's not happy with his current job, there are a lot of things he could do that don't include going to school, which is a poor financial decision with ramifications that extend beyond his bank account/line of credit.

You have no idea about the financial ramifications of this decision though?

how much is he making right now?
how much will he save in his current position over 4 years if he doesn't go to school?
how much will he be able to save in the years after school vs. those same years if he didn't go to school?

Even looking at it from your stupid financial only outlook it could still be a very good decision. Depending on Thor and his buddies backgrounds they could be making a very smart decision financially to go back to school.

Anyways the main point is that you should definitely do it Thor, if you are going back to take something that you are really interested in.

[moon]

Originally Posted by DESS

I'm afraid my post went over your head, Moon. Or you prejudged it because you don't like me. I will pray for you my friend.

Originally Posted by DESS

He took the time to dissect my post, and normally I would have taken time to respond to him. I think if nothing else I've shown that I am willing to explain myself to you guys. I didn't bother with that one because, frankly, I didn't think he was actually reading my posts...just trying to discredit me without putting to much thought into it. I simply returned the favour.

BTW, you have embellished what I've said as well.

How did I respond to each of you points without reading the post?

I don't care what you have said in other threads. I don't really remember what was said in the Bear thread and only vaguely skimmed over your statements in the International city thread as well.

You had plenty of ridiculous statements in the post in this thread so there really is no need for me to go back to other statements to "judge" you. I can assure 100% that everything I said about that post had to do with the stupid comments made in it and nothing to do with other moronic posts you have made on this site.

[Locke]

Man, back to school in your mid 30s?

I can tell you, unequivocally that if this were me I'd be out looking for a gun...nothing fancy, I'm only going to use it just the once....

Now, obviously my opinion is tainted by the fact that I've been an on again off again student for the last 6 years and I've been jerked around by University counselors and schedulers and pretty much every other ass-hat with even a modicum of scholarly authority.

So, would I want to go back? I'm 1 class short of my degree and I dont want to go back to do that either.

Now, thats not to say school is no fun, thats not true at all, I've had a great time there, made a lot of good friends and had lots of fun, but thats usually either at school's expense or in spite of school.

God I hate school...

Go for the fun of it and leave when the fun is over, thats my best advice to you. To commit to it until you're basically 40? I think thats insane, but do what moves you man.

[fatso]

Originally Posted by DESS

I think going back in your mid 30s is a terrible idea, unless of course you have rich parents that can subsidize your schooling costs, your life while in school, and the years after school as you struggle with earning a starting salary at 40ish. And this would also presuppose you would be willing to take their money even though you are an adult, which is a tad unmanly, IMO. (much like using the word "tad" is unmanly, lol)

If you do not have rich parents, here is the bigger problem. School should be looked at as an investment. Your career is likely not going to earn you enough money to give you a payoff on your investment. Say you work until you're 55 or 60...that's only 15-20 years of work after your degree. You're going to have to do a calculation kind of like this to see if this is worthwhile:

ROI = [what you can realistically make with the degree over course of your career after you graduate - what you would realistically make had you not earned a degree over the same time period] - [(cost of education including living expenses, tuition, books, etc.) + (loss of salary calculated at approximately your current rate for the four years you're in school) + (interest on any loans you may need to finance your education)]

I hope that makes sense, but my point is from a purely financial perspective, this is likely a very bad idea in that you're going to end up with a negative return on investment, particularly because you're exploring a career that isn't going to be very lucrative.

If you have rich parents and don't mind sucking on their teet at 35, however, go nuts and good luck!

Awesome point. I definitely think the OP should slog away unhappy and retire at 55 to sit at home wondering 'what if?' than work 'til 65 at a career he finds personally fulfilling. Makes perfect sense!

[onetwo_threefour]

Originally Posted by DESS

He took the time to dissect my post, and normally I would have taken time to respond to him. I think if nothing else I've shown that I am willing to explain myself to you guys. I didn't bother with that one because, frankly, I didn't think he was actually reading my posts...just trying to discredit me without putting to much thought into it. I simply returned the favour.

BTW, you have embellished what I've said as well.

It's teh interwebz what do u expect?

[DESS]

Originally Posted by moon

You have no idea about the financial ramifications of this decision though?

how much is he making right now?
how much will he save in his current position over 4 years if he doesn't go to school?
how much will he be able to save in the years after school vs. those same years if he didn't go to school?

Did you not see the formula I gave him to plug his own numbers into? It's for him to decide if it's a good financial decision, but I hope I helped him look at it from that angle. At the very least, it should be a factor in his decision. My advice is also a little more practical than telling him to avoid being the mature loud-mouth student at the front like everybody else has done for three straight pages.

Even looking at it from your stupid financial only outlook it could still be a very good decision. Depending on Thor and his buddies backgrounds they could be making a very smart decision financially to go back to school.

Well, I have a cousin who has her doctorate in biochemistry, and let me assure you it is not a lucrative career path on average.

Anyways the main point is that you should definitely do it Thor, if you are going back to take something that you are really interested in.

Thor, please look at this a bit more critically than these back slappers would have you do. There is more to this than follow your dreams and it will all work out. It's a complicated decision you're about to make that will affect every facet of your life.

Going with something purely based on interest is great if you're wealthy, but if you live in the real world you should be asking yourself where you want to be in 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, and 35 years as your entire life is going to be affected by the decisions you make leading up to the start of the semester. Answers to those questions will inevitably affect what you decide to take in school (if you decided to go), because the four years you spend there are less important than 40 years you're going to spend in life once you have your degree.

Also really examine why you're doing this. Is it because you are unhappy with your life right now and think this is the thing holding you back? Maybe it is and maybe it isn't, but you have to be very careful here, because it would be unfortunate if you completed all this work at great expense with huge ramifications only to find it is something else holding back your happiness.

see above

[simonsays]

Originally Posted by DESS

...Kill all bears...Let's have a more Christian stampede...At least with some Christian influence perhaps those atheists could be saved...teachers have the easiest job in the world...I don't like solar panels...secondary schooling is a purely financial decision...I will pray for moon...

I disagree with every single one of your opinions.

If Thor wants to return to school he should. Of coarse he should consider why he's going back, but I'm assuming that he isn't jumping into the deep end of the pool just because he heard that swimming is neat. And by the way, life isn't about retirement it's about living. If doing something different with your career will improve your quality of life then you go for it, even if there are risks involved.

[DESS]

Originally Posted by simonsays

I disagree with every single one of your opinions.

If Thor wants to return to school he should. Of coarse he should consider why he's going back, but I'm assuming that he isn't jumping into the deep end of the pool just because he heard that swimming is neat. And by the way, life isn't about retirement it's about living. If doing something different with your career will improve your quality of life then you go for it, even if there are risks involved.

Mods: Can we please edit Thor's original post where he solicits "advice" (yes that is the exact word used in the title of this thread)? It's causing too much confusion as it is written. Perhaps we could change it to something like: Come in here and tell Thor what other people think Thor needs/wants to here. Then maybe we could have a group of five or six PC CPers vet the posts before they are added to the thread, and if they don't include any of the following sentiments...
- don't talk in class
- follow your heart
- don't worry about the cost, just do what you love (apparently CPers don't watch the news and don't know this is the attitude that has brought financial ruin to the world's doorstep)
...they could simply be deleted before they are posted.

[llama64]

Originally Posted by DESS

Mods: Can we please edit Thor's original post where he solicits "advice" (yes that is the exact word used in the title of this thread)? It's causing too much confusion as it is written. Perhaps we could change it to something like: Come in here and tell Thor what other people think Thor needs/wants to here. Then maybe we could have a group of five or six PC CPers vet the posts before they are added to the thread, and if they don't include any of the following sentiments...
- don't talk in class
- follow your heart
- don't worry about the cost, just do what you love (apparently CPers don't watch the news and don't know this is the attitude that has brought financial ruin to the world's doorstep)
...they could simply be deleted before they are posted.

You stated an opinion. People disagreed (quite possibly because your tone is so combative).

Either carry on the discussion or leave it alone.

Thor: Grats on going back to school! I made that descision early on and can tell you it is a world of difference to be doing something I really enjoy rather then working to pay the bills.

We only get one life, so we might as well be happy in it.

[DESS]

Originally Posted by llama64

You stated an opinion. People disagreed (quite possibly because your tone is so combative).

Either carry on the discussion or leave it alone.

So I'm the combative one, eh? I'd love to see some examples of that. Examples like these:

Originally Posted by moon

Thats because you are a huge idiot.

Originally Posted by onetwo_threefour

You are a very narrowly focused person Dess.

Originally Posted by moon

Even looking at it from your stupid financial only outlook it could still be a very good decision.

Originally Posted by moon

I can assure 100% that everything I said about that post had to do with the stupid comments made in it and nothing to do with other moronic posts you have made on this site.

[JiriHrdina]

I did it - and it was the best decision I ever made. Not only did it put me on the right career path but I really enjoyed school the second time around. There was some culture shock at first, but after it wore off it was fantastic.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by DESS

Mods: Can we please edit Thor's original post where he solicits "advice" (yes that is the exact word used in the title of this thread)? It's causing too much confusion as it is written. Perhaps we could change it to something like: Come in here and tell Thor what other people think Thor needs/wants to here. Then maybe we could have a group of five or six PC CPers vet the posts before they are added to the thread, and if they don't include any of the following sentiments...
- don't talk in class
- follow your heart
- don't worry about the cost, just do what you love (apparently CPers don't watch the news and don't know this is the attitude that has brought financial ruin to the world's doorstep)
...they could simply be deleted before they are posted.

Or you could just chill out.

[onetwo_threefour]

Dess,

Narrowly focused is not combative, it's an observation based on the breadth of the arguments you raise to support your position, and your apparent refusal to accept the validity of points of view other than your own.

I think you have made some interesting economic points in this thread, but they are largely buried in the over-the-top position that you take that they are the only relevant considerations. (or even the most important ones, so I don't get accused of embellishing again)