Life is short - Have an Affair

[ResAlien]

I concede to Daradon being able to make a point I was thinking much better than I could.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by peter12

It may be an old idea, but it still exists. And yeah, you're right, female sexual power, on the individual level, is often expressed through promiscuity.

Ouch.

I did not say promiscuity. And I think that would be offensive to say that's where the power comes from.

I simply meant that in a lot of situations it's the females that get to pick from a bunch of suitors, and not the other way around.

I think I get where some of your ideas are coming form here...

[Daradon]

It's not to say that I don't believe SOME women achieve that kind of 'power' through promiscuity. Of course there are some. But taking note of that, while not making a similar comment about male attitudes, especially some of the 'old ideas' you said you yourself subscribed to, is sexist to say the least.

How you could be worried about our society creating mysogynistic attitudes, yet not see that double standard right there is very interesting.

[Got Miikka?]

Haha - this thread is/will be all kinds of derail.

This whole topic fascinates me.

For the record, I think everyone in here makes a good, valid point on their own terms - who is to say with any indisputable authority who is right or wrong? I think at best we could all be able to agree that this is a seriously complex issue that is impossible to define in black and white terms. And until some kind of ultimate empirical boundaries are set - this is impossible IMO - it is ultimately a rather futile argument.

Interesting article related to what photon had to say regarding romantic comedies: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/s...st/7784366.stm

There is a thought-provoking opening monologue from a 2002 movie called Roger Dodger (imdb.com link). In it, the title character posits that the ultimate male function on this earth is one of utility; women will eventually evolve to possess reproductive capacity that does not require a male partner; men will eventually be reduced to a role of complete servitude and utter emasculation. A bit of a stretch but depending on your viewpoints not one entirely outside the realm of possibility - how does this fit in to the whole debate?

For me the most effective route is always to default to the basest moral position, and argue from there - that way you are immune from perception of working from an angle of moral superiority. So here's what I say: human beings are incredibly complex physical, emotional, and mental organisms that are very much susceptible to 'evil' and 'perversion' - no matter what steps are taken to try and 'cleanse' ourselves we cannot escape our dark capabilities and/or thoughts... people are going to produce and consume pornography whether it is socially acceptable or not, and they are going to engage in acts of infidelity whether it is socially acceptable or not ('acceptable' here can be defined as either 'okay/tolerated/not discourged' or 'acknowledged').

The real question is - are we getting better or worse, and who is to say what better or worse is?

To me, with so many divergent viewpoints to consider and contrast, and as these perspectives expand and are divergent in themselves, things are only going to get messier and messier.

Re-reading this post I realize I contradict myself at times - I think that is the point though.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Got Miikka?

To me, with so many divergent viewpoints to consider and contrast, and as these perspectives expand and are divergent in themselves, things are only going to get messier and messier.

Madonna got Messier

[onetwo_threefour]

Wow, I haven't looked back for a few hours, and it turned into a discussion about porn??

I don't have a problem with the existence of the site, I have a friend (female) whose marriage broke up a couple years ago who is a member of something quite similar. On the other hand the name of the ad, and the message it sends is that it is okay to be dishonest with your partner. I wouldn't want lavalife to be able to run an ad like that either.

For me it's the message of the ad itself that's concerning, not the idea that there is adultery out there and there is a website (or 20) that services people engage in same. I don't consider myself a prude at all, but the message that infidelity is mainstream and acceptable as implied by public advertising in this vein is disturbing.
If my son is watching the Superbowl with me and this ad came on, he might very well say, "Hey dad, what do they mean, "Life's short have an affair?"

The more this type of advertising is permitted during mainstream events and in prime time, the more that there is an implicit societal meesage that it's okay not to be honest with your partner. It's not about sex for me, I don't care, it's about advertising deceit as a positive value.

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally Posted by peter12

Hahaha, wow. Rape is about sex and power. Do you have a problem with "sexual moralists" taking a stand against that? I didn't think so.

If we accept that sexuality is based on power, we intrinsically accept that human relationships are primarily patriarchal.

As I've said many times, human sexuality in its biological origins is not acceptable to a modern liberal democratic society.

Of course, rape is wrong. I said that in the post, so uh what are you laughing at?

Rape role play though? I'm OK with that.

There is a huge power element to sex. That's a fact. It's not everything but it's a part of the equation. And of course our society is patriarchal and many human relationships are patriarchal. This is not something necessarily innate in humans or something that is good but it's there. People's sex lives are often reflections of that. Combining their sexual instincts with what society tells them is OK. Therefore, the power element in the bedroom is a mere reaction to power elements in society.

Sexuality should be treated in society without absolutes besides the obvious of no rape. There should be huge amounts of education and communication. No one understands sexuality and that's why we have all these problems.

[troutman]

They would not care about this in France. Then again, they would not need web-sites to assist with such liasons.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by onetwo_threefour

Wow, I haven't looked back for a few hours, and it turned into a discussion about porn??

I don't have a problem with the existence of the site, I have a friend (female) whose marriage broke up a couple years ago who is a member of something quite similar. On the other hand the name of the ad, and the message it sends is that it is okay to be dishonest with your partner. I wouldn't want lavalife to be able to run an ad like that either.

For me it's the message of the ad itself that's concerning, not the idea that there is adultery out there and there is a website (or 20) that services people engage in same. I don't consider myself a prude at all, but the message that infidelity is mainstream and acceptable as implied by public advertising in this vein is disturbing.
If my son is watching the Superbowl with me and this ad came on, he might very well say, "Hey dad, what do they mean, "Life's short have an affair?"

The more this type of advertising is permitted during mainstream events and in prime time, the more that there is an implicit societal meesage that it's okay not to be honest with your partner. It's not about sex for me, I don't care, it's about advertising deceit as a positive value.

This is exactly it.

Its not that sites like this exist, its the message that adultery, mysogyny and destroying families is acceptable and fun. Part of me is surprised that adultery isn't considered a form of sex crime.

Pornography is a pretty poor comparison. There's a difference between ogling "girlies who aint gots no clothes" and engaging in adulterous acts behind the backs of their partners/spouses/families, and leaving a selfish trail of damage behind. Many couples enjoy porno together as a turn-on or as a form of sexual release when their partner isn't available.

Essentially, pornography is a tool, adultery sites are a weapon.

I don't buy the lavalife/plentyoffish is the same argument either. Like porno, its a tool, that some people abuse, but its stated intent is to hook up singles. They aren't advocating abuse. Sites like ashleymadison.com do.