NB School Silences O Canada

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Really....who said that?

I think its different things....if a child doesnt want to sing it...fine, dont do it. BUT...to make the entire school stop because it offends a few parents? Screw em....again, rights of the minority seem to supercede the rights of the majority. Why?

Because sometimes the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many. This principal obviously weighed the pros and cons of the situation (is a daily honouring of our country worth the disruption it is causing) and came to the conclusion that he did. As previously stated, I would have rathered he looked at the root cause of the disruption rather than banning the anthem. But if his only options were to ban or not ban, I think he weighed the needs of both sides correctly. We don't NEED to sing the national anthem every day. If we did they would institute it at our offices.

If the rights of the majority always outweigh the rights of the minority, then why wouldn't we go back to having slavery of the black people?

[onetwo_threefour]

With respect to Christmas carols, why should my son, who I sent to public school to avoid being indoctrinated in the Catholic faith that I was brought up in, have to memorize the Christmas story or sing carols of a religious nature in public school. If I wanted him to be religiously educated, I would send him to the appropriate schooling for my denomination outside the normal school hours. (Except of course if you're Catholic, then you're lucky because we've got a whole special system set up just for you).

TBQH I don't care if he learns Christian carols, hell he has learned several in piano lessons, but I certainly don't object to the de-religification of the winter holidays for those who feel more strongly about the subject than I do. Really, it shouldn't BE religious in public school.

[CaptainCrunch]

Maybe they should have put it to a student vote, you know demonstrate democracy in action.

If the majority doesn't want to do it find, if the majority wants to continue to do it fine.

But if you want to stand up as a parent or student and complain about something like the anthem, then stand up with your convictions and be counted.

[ok, ok,....I get it]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Maybe they should have put it to a student vote, you know demonstrate democracy in action.

If the majority doesn't want to do it find, if the majority wants to continue to do it fine.

But if you want to stand up as a parent or student and complain about something like the anthem, then stand up with your convictions and be counted.

Omar is a pansey because he won't vote to sing the anthem

[HelloHockeyFans]

nm

[transplant99]

Because sometimes the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many

If both are actual "needs"...then that comment is complete and utter bovine feces.

This principal obviously weighed the pros and cons of the situation

If you think so...fine. I dont. I think he completely caved on something that had no business even being brought up for decision. I think he was more worried about the possible "battle" he MAY of had to wage to appease those who were complaining. He is a PUTZ if so..

If the rights of the majority always outweigh the rights of the minority, then why wouldn't we go back to having slavery of the black people?

The strawman waves back at you.....but mainly because the "majority" didn't have slavery....nor did they want it. Im almost sure there was a war to settle that whole situation as a matter of fact.

[fatso]

Originally Posted by transplant99

If both are actual "needs"...then that comment is complete and utter bovine feces.



If you think so...fine. I dont. I think he completely caved on something that had no business even being brought up for decision. I think he was more worried about the possible "battle" he MAY of had to wage to appease those who were complaining. He is a PUTZ if so..



The strawman waves back at you.....but mainly because the "majority" didn't have slavery....nor did they want it. Im almost sure there was a war to settle that whole situation as a matter of fact.

Well, to be fair, blacks were slaves for over 200 years and weren't fully citizens until the 20th century. And that war against slavery sharply divided and nearly decimated what became the U.S. It wasn't like it was a handful of people were trying to hold slaves for a week. And in the end, abolition achieved critical mass through the actions of the minority and was implemented through a democratic commitment to minority rights.

But... I digress... this isn't about slavery. You suggested that the rights of the minority are superceding the rights of the majority. Can you show me which rights of the majority are being infringed by disallowing the anthem in the school?

[kipperiggy]

We always sang O Canada at assemblies all through elementary school, but when I was in grades one and two (had the same teacher), we would sing it every morning. I'm not sure why my teacher had us sing it every morning because we were the only class in the school that did.

The teacher also had us say the Lord's prayer, which I didn't think much of at the time because I'm Catholic and I was only, what, 7? Looking back though, I'm not sure why the teacher had us say it in a public school. Nobody was forced to say it, but it still seems strange looking back now.

[JohnnyB]

Ha ha. I think it's funny that some view anthem singing as a form of indoctrination, as if that's not what the whole public education system is about. What else is public education about if not raising new generations to fit into and support a social system which will maintain national stability and support the country's system of government.

Besides, if kids don't learn to sing the anthem at school where are they going to learn it?

[transplant99]

You suggested that the rights of the minority are superceding the rights of the majority

if the parents of 2 or 3 children are forcing the decision over the rest of the XXX students and their parents...it should be obvious...no?

Can you show me which rights of the majority are being infringed by disallowing the anthem in the school?

Again...the MAJORITY of students parents have not complained. What part of this is not clear? Or am i mis-understanding you?

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by transplant99

if the parents of 2 or 3 children are forcing the decision over the rest of the XXX students and their parents...it should be obvious...no?

(A) We don't even know if it was the parents.
(B) I think we are disagreeing with your entire premise. If 99% of the parents wanted it to be okay for the kids to punch Jimmy the Joho in the face every day, it doesn't make it right. Again, sometimes the needs of the few do outweigh the needs of the many. As has been asked several times already, how are the kids going to be harmed by NOT singing the anthem every day? Are the all going to grow up to be violent criminals? Lazy potheads? What? In this principals mind the benefits of singing the anthem were not worth the problems it was causing.

[Daradon]

Singing the national anthem is far different than slavery or punching Jimmy the Joho in the face.

Let's be sensible here. Unless there are no good examples...

[fatso]

Originally Posted by transplant99

if the parents of 2 or 3 children are forcing the decision over the rest of the XXX students and their parents...it should be obvious...no?



Again...the MAJORITY of students parents have not complained. What part of this is not clear? Or am i mis-understanding you?

Oh I think you're probably right that the majority of the students would like to sing the anthem (or are at least indifferent as to singing it). But I want to know what "rights" are being infringed. You stated this was an issue of competing rights and incorrect balancing of those competing rights... I'd like to know what exactly those are. Is it positively legislated somewhere that students should be allowed to sing the anthem? Or is it a natural right or an historical principle?

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by Daradon

Singing the national anthem is far different than slavery or punching Jimmy the Joho in the face. Let's be sensible here. Unless there are no good examples...

I only need one example, no matter how extreme, to bust the notion that "majority rights should trump minority rights". There ARE cases where the minority should win out over the majority. And in this case, the principal made that judgement call.

[Igottago]

Bumped.

Just saw the principal's defense on CBC. Seems he tried to do what was best for all of his students...which is probably a principal's job, isn't it? He didn't ban the anthem outright, they still sang it at monthly assemblies (which is more in line with what I remember as a kid). After some extreme fox news type media coverage, some bullying by a conservative MP, some bitching and complaining by a Sarah Palin like housewife/mom, and death threats by Canadian hillbillies, the guy's career has been destroyed.

Way to protect our patriotism! I'm gonna go drink a Molson.

[Coach]

Up until high school it was every morning. Once high school started it was every monday. Dont know why it changed

[doozwimp]

Patriotism is over-rated, who cares? Feel bad for the principle actually.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by doozwimp

Patriotism is over-rated, who cares? Feel bad for the principle actually.

Exactly.

Patriotism will eventually in the future be viewed like racism when we realize how counter productive it really is.

[Devils'Advocate]

Which is why I'm going to Vancouver to boo all the Canadian atheletes at the next Olympics.