Who is this Michael Ignatieff guy?

[The Ditch]

I don't know, if you gave me the exact same person but one person did all his school in Canada and lived here his whole life and the other went internationally with school and lived elsewhere half his life, I would vote for guy who stayed in Canada regardless of the quality of school. I would think he would be more in touch with Canadians, give better insight.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Yes, but was Ignatieff ever on tv's "Reach For The Top" quiz show like Stevey?

Na na... so there!!!

Ha... you've got me there! On the other hand, Ignatieff does have a harder name to spell. That's got to count for something!

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by troutman

Handed to him? Are Oxford and Harvard just handing out degrees now?

No, not at all. I'm just saying... private schools in Europe... Oxford, Harvard... These things cost a lot of money. Somebody had to pay for it, and it probably wasn't him.

I'm just comparing that to the fact that he's now had the Liberal leadership handed to him without so much as even a leadership race, or even a membership vote. Knowing that this country is just sitting on its ass waiting for an even halfway intelligent Liberal to vote for again, means that he's also just had an entire country (probably) handed to him as well.

I'd never in a million years question the work it takes to get a degree of any sort. I'm just saying that it's not like he put himself through all those expensive schools on loans, scholarships and crap jobs at the mall.


Edit: Before I get lynched, I don't have a problem with parents paying for their children's education. I just made a comparison between his paid-for education and his handed-to-him Liberal leadership.

Edit: ... and I'm also (obviously) jealous. I would have loved to have been given those same opportunities. I probably wouldn't have excelled anywhere near the level he did, but I would have certainly loved to try.

[Cowboy89]

While some might think that his lack of time in Canada is a bad thing, I would tend to disagree. In Canada we have a tendancy to reject new ideas on the sole basis that elements of them have been implemented in the United States or Britian. In our own pursuit of achieving a unique identity we call new initiatives 'American-Style' or 'UnCanadian' as if the simple fact that we happen to have created the prior framework makes it optimal (As if somehow there's something in the water in Canada that makes us smarter, more ethical, and more capable than the rest of the world).

I think that someone like Ignatieff would have a much better background and expertise than anyone else in the Liberal party to tackle some sacred cow issues while making pompus, loud, and flag waving opposition attackers look like the mental midgets they are.

That all being said I'd like to see how willing the Liberal party is to shed itself of the more leftist elements of the party and the former 'hangers on' that only signed up to be in the business for power's sake that will be needed to properly support his initiatives. The question is whether Ignatieff changes the party or whether the party changes him.

[FlamesAddiction]

Just out of curiousity, has this country ever had a PM that didn't come from affluence or have inherent entitlement?

Canadian politics is, and always has been, an elitists game (part of the reason I didn't bother voting the last time around).

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by The Ditch

I don't know, if you gave me the exact same person but one person did all his school in Canada and lived here his whole life and the other went internationally with school and lived elsewhere half his life, I would vote for guy who stayed in Canada regardless of the quality of school. I would think he would be more in touch with Canadians, give better insight.

Problem is, those can never be the "same person", our experiences define us. And while Ignatieff might not be in sync with all Canadians, don't you think a guy with so much internationally experience would also be able to better handle Canada's role within that community? In a so-called global economy, seems to me that's a pretty good tool to have for a Prime Minister.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by The Ditch

I don't know, if you gave me the exact same person but one person did all his school in Canada and lived here his whole life and the other went internationally with school and lived elsewhere half his life, I would vote for guy who stayed in Canada regardless of the quality of school. I would think he would be more in touch with Canadians, give better insight.

Isnt there something to be said for having a broad world view and experience in countries other than your own? I would've thought that is vital to leading a country...I mean being a Prime Minister isn't just leading Canada, its leading Canada as well as maintaining relationships and affairs with other countries around the globe.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Just out of curiousity, has this country ever had a PM that didn't come from affluence or have inherent entitlement?

Canadian politics is, and always has been, an elitists game (part of the reason I didn't bother voting the last time around).

Harper comes from a middle class family and so did Joe Clark (ugh).

I also believe, IIRC, that Mulroony's father was an electrician.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Just out of curiousity, has this country ever had a PM that didn't come from affluence or have inherent entitlement?

Canadian politics is, and always has been, an elitists game (part of the reason I didn't bother voting the last time around).

Brian Mulroney's father was a paper mill electrician.
Lester Pearson was the son of a minister.

I think affluence makes it easier to become a politician, simply because that allows you to meet more influential and/or powerful people. But not being affluent won't prevent you from achievement.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

Brian Mulroney's father was a paper mill electrician.
Lester Pearson was the son of a minister.

I think affluence makes it easier to become a politician, simply because that allows you to meet more influential and/or powerful people. But not being affluent won't prevent you from achievement.

That certainly doesn't necessarily put them below affluence. In the case of Mulroney, he was sent to a private boarding school at a young age. I doubt too many people of average or below-average wealth could do that.

Even if his parents were not affluent themselves, Brian had been introduced to affluence at a young age.

[Table 5]

So basically you'd only vote if a crippled orphan hobo rose to become Prime Minister?

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

No, not at all. I'm just saying... private schools in Europe... Oxford, Harvard... These things cost a lot of money. Somebody had to pay for it, and it probably wasn't him..

You'd be surprised, actually. Harvard has a very generous endowment, and extremely comprehensive and generous scholarship programs for top students. I would suspect that many of their PhD students (I don't know if this is the case for Ignatieff) often got a full ride in the 70s based on their academic credentials--and his were already very impressive by then. Oxford is the same deal--the hard part is getting in--once you're there, you can usually find a way to pay for it.

Just FYI--Harvard University currently waives all tuition fees for children of families earning less than 100,000 dollars a year. (sucks for the guy who earns 101,000, but no policy is perfect!)

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by The Ditch

I don't know, if you gave me the exact same person but one person did all his school in Canada and lived here his whole life and the other went internationally with school and lived elsewhere half his life, I would vote for guy who stayed in Canada regardless of the quality of school. I would think he would be more in touch with Canadians, give better insight.

So you think Dion is more qualified then Iggy?

[skins]

"Being anti-American is a lousy way to be a proud Canadian"

I like that quote. I've meet more than a couple people like that.

When you pronounce "Ignatieff", is it 4 syllables or 3?

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by skins

I like that quote. I've meet more than a couple people like that.

When you pronounce "Ignatieff", is it 4 syllables or 3?

I say it with 4 because I think it's more bad-ass.

[The Ditch]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

So you think Dion is more qualified then Iggy?

I know nothing of Ignatieff so I can't make a comparison. Dion was not the right man for the job, especially at this time. I have noticed that Ignatieff didn't get involved in politics till 2006, I will give Dion credit for the fact that he is very passionate about politics and has been involved for quite a while, no matter what his views are.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

You'd be surprised, actually. Harvard has a very generous endowment, and extremely comprehensive and generous scholarship programs for top students. I would suspect that many of their PhD students (I don't know if this is the case for Ignatieff) often got a full ride in the 70s based on their academic credentials--and his were already very impressive by then. Oxford is the same deal--the hard part is getting in--once you're there, you can usually find a way to pay for it.

Just FYI--Harvard University currently waives all tuition fees for children of families earning less than 100,000 dollars a year. (sucks for the guy who earns 101,000, but no policy is perfect!)

Wow, that's actually very cool. Thanks for pointing that out to me.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Table 5

So basically you'd only vote if a crippled orphan hobo rose to become Prime Minister?

I didn't say that, but let's face it, when you vote, you are typically going to be voting for someone out of touch with the average lower to middle class person. For the most part, most of them are out of touch with who I am and where I'm at, so I have trouble picking the person who I want to make the big decisions that will affect me personally.

People brought up around power and prestige typically only want more power and prestige, and I don't like being the one rewarding those blow-hards with more of what they don't deserve.

I guess the real point I was trying to make is that it is ridiculous for people to slam Ignatieff for never having to have worked joe-shmo jobs while you could say that with probably 90% of all politicians who have had powerful positions in federal politics.

[Rerun]

I see Ignatieff's grandfather was Count Pavel Ignatiev, the Russian Minister of Education to Tsar Nicholas II....
and his great-grandfather was Count Nikolay Ignatyev, the Russian Minister of the Interior under Tsar Alexander III.

Seems fitting that he should be crowned Liberal Party Leader by the Liberal party elite, without a proper election.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Rerun

I see Ignatieff's grandfather was Count Pavel Ignatiev, the Russian Minister of Education to Tsar Nicholas II....
and his great-grandfather was Count Nikolay Ignatyev, the Russian Minister of the Interior under Tsar Alexander III.

Seems fitting that he should be crowned Liberal Party Leader by the Liberal party elite, without a proper election.

But the Ignatieff family were strong opposers of the Bolsheviks... so it won't bode well for any coalition hopes with the NDP... j/k