New Calgary transit fees.

[Bunk]

I'm sure the lots will still fill up completely. Not that large a proportion park and ride on transit. The only way it will affect ridership if the lots are less than full, which I doubt. Some people will switch to taking the feeder buses, others might even be compelled over the long term to move closer to a transit station (maybe even in one of the TODs that will replace the large surface park and rides and Brentwood and Anderson) or alternatively, closer to work.

Very few cities just give away parking for free. Large surface lots are extremely unsafe (huge vehicle break-in rates - Brentwood being the highest) and are an incredible waste of valuable land that should (and will be) developed into high density. Part of Calgary growing up - structurally, it needs to change to have much more efficient land use - ie higher densities, more mixed uses and better access to transit.

Below - Two TOD Station Area Plans (there are six of these planned in total (Brentwood, Banff Trail, Lions Park, Chinook, Anderson and Canyon Meadows)

Anderson TOD - about 2/3 of the park and ride spots will be replaced in parkades


Slightly outdated digital model of the Brentwood TOD (the plan has changed to a degree on the south side of Crowchild)

[Bill Bumface]

No one likes paying for something that used to be free, but really:

-Ridership on the LRT (Especially the North-South line) is really NOT a problem. It's not like the city is in a position where they need to encourage ridership of the LRT, which was the original purpose of Park'n'Ride lots.

-If people really hate the $3, maybe some will take the bus (essentially for free) to the LRT stations. If this happens, hopefully service improves as demand does. Less traffic, less road expansion necessary, it's an idealist hippies wet dream.

-Park'n'Ride lots are prime real estate. They are already looking at redeveloping the Brentwood area. If people indeed started resorting to taking the bus to LRT stations, and they are looking at moving, wouldn't an appartment or rowhouse sitting on the former parking lot at the LRT station be a pretty prime place to live? People eventually start moving closer to transit, the cities footprint stops exploding, we all hold hands and sing songs in a circle around our VW vans that we no longer need.

Honestly though, not really a bad vision if they improve feeder busses to LRT stations and go with more transit oriented development.

EDIT: Too slow

[Barnes]

How is paying for parking even going to be possible? Will there be machines? who will make sure that the thousands of cars in lots all over the city have paid. How much will it cost to police? What a cluster fuuuuu this is going to be.

I feel bad for the residents and businesses that will have to deal with people parking all over the place.

Where else can we squeeze money out of our citizens. What about people in wheelchairs. They take up 3 times the space that able bodied riders take up. Why don't they pay 3 times the amount. Old people take FOREVER to get on and off the bus yet they get a discount? Don't get me started on the blind....

As an act of civil disobedience, we all should park our cars in bus stops starting January first.

[Ethaniel]

Why should I be forced to live close to a station?
Why should I be forced to get up 1 - 2 hrs earlier to catch a bus when my neighborhood still does not have bus service?
Why am I forced to drive to a Park and Ride location?
Feeder Buses will not improve at all. This has been the case for 15 years you think it will change now?

I don't understand why the people are getting so screwed about this. If I want a good paying job I have to work downtown, but to work downtown costs me easily over $2000 a year. Factor in a low percentage taken off from your gross salary of 30% You are looking at $3000 more Gross per year to make a downtown job viable. And this is just to take a horrible and extremely outdated transit system. Not to mention the transit system on avg for a commuter is 1 hour each way to get to work. Thus we are wasting 2 hours of our day to live in a community we want to with grass and a house/yard to be punished. All this because we have to work downtown.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally Posted by Ethaniel

Why should I be forced to live close to a station?
Why should I be forced to get up 1 - 2 hrs earlier to catch a bus when my neighborhood still does not have bus service?
Why am I forced to drive to a Park and Ride location?

Because if you do not live in a 600 sq ft apartment within 6 blocks of work you are a bad, bad person.

[Ronald Pagan]

Originally Posted by Ethaniel

Why should I be forced to live close to a station?
Why should I be forced to get up 1 - 2 hrs earlier to catch a bus when my neighborhood still does not have bus service?
Why am I forced to drive to a Park and Ride location?
Feeder Buses will not improve at all. This has been the case for 15 years you think it will change now?

I don't understand why the people are getting so screwed about this. If I want a good paying job I have to work downtown, but to work downtown costs me easily over $2000 a year. Factor in a low percentage taken off from your gross salary of 30% You are looking at $3000 more Gross per year to make a downtown job viable. And this is just to take a horrible and extremely outdated transit system. Not to mention the transit system on avg for a commuter is 1 hour each way to get to work. Thus we are wasting 2 hours of our day to live in a community we want to with grass and a house/yard to be punished. All this because we have to work downtown.

Nobody's forcing you to do anything.

You have to pay for the decisions you make. Live far away from work or transit then you need to pay.

Not a hard concept to understand.

[moncton golden flames]

Originally Posted by Ronald Pagan

Nobody's forcing you to do anything.

You have to pay for the decisions you make. Live far away from work or transit then you need to pay.

Not a hard concept to understand.

here here!

this whole 'poor me' attitude is sickening. suck it up buttercup.

[Ethaniel]

So Ronald I should move into the core and pay twice as much for a house I can't now afford? So me living in a good neighborhood and being able to provide a house for my family and daughters is not the right choice. I should force them to live in an apartment in the core and eat bread every night? As it stands right now what if i could not afford to pay for this parking? $900 dollars a year and maybe i could not afford it what then? Should my family suffer because I have a job downtown. What are my other options to save this $900 dollars a year so my family doesn't suffer? (this is all assuming that i could not afford to sacrifice more like a lot of people in society) What if a family is scraping by on the fact you got a job downtown and now you don't have bus service and you have to find another $900 a year just to make it to work so your family does not starve.

I understand your point Ronald, but you have to remember a lot of people cannot afford $200 more a year let alone almost one thousand a year. What happens if those people are required to stay where they are at and have no other options? Should their family suffer more because the kids parents can't be home for an extra 2 hours a day? Don't even get me started on the fact do you know what an additional 2 hours of child care is just so you can get to work.

You are probably both living downtown and single. You have to remember i am not fighting for myself i can afford this and have no problem I am fighting for the people that can't and have no other option.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Ethaniel

So Ronald I should move into the core and pay twice as much for a house I can't now afford? So me living in a good neighborhood and being able to provide a house for my family and daughters is not the right choice. I should force them to live in an apartment in the core and eat bread every night? As it stands right now what if i could not afford to pay for this parking? $900 dollars a year and maybe i could not afford it what then? Should my family suffer because I have a job downtown. What are my other options to save this $900 dollars a year so my family doesn't suffer? (this is all assuming that i could not afford to sacrifice more like a lot of people in society) What if a family is scraping by on the fact you got a job downtown and now you don't have bus service and you have to find another $900 a year just to make it to work so your family does not starve.

I understand your point Ronald, but you have to remember a lot of people cannot afford $200 more a year let alone almost one thousand a year. What happens if those people are required to stay where they are at and have no other options? Should their family suffer more because the kids parents can't be home for an extra 2 hours a day? Don't even get me started on the fact do you know what an additional 2 hours of child care is just so you can get to work.

You are probably both living downtown and single. You have to remember i am not fighting for myself i can afford this and have no problem I am fighting for the people that can't and have no other option.

Everyone has an option.

You don't like paying the $3? Take the bus. You don't like the bus? Pay more and drive downtown. You can't afford to drive downtown? Move closer to work, get a new job, or move close to an LRT station.

Not everyone is entitled to a big house with a giant yard on the edge of the city with a giant freeway to take you to free parking at an LRT station. It's not sustainable, and that is why our city is growing out of control. Just because this was readily available at one time, doesn't mean it will be forever.

If Calgary isn't for you anymore, make it work or move.

[Ethaniel]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

Everyone has an option.

You don't like paying the $3? Take the bus. You don't like the bus? Pay more and drive downtown. You can't afford to drive downtown? Move closer to work, get a new job, or move close to an LRT station.

Not everyone is entitled to a big house with a giant yard on the edge of the city with a giant freeway to take you to free parking at an LRT station. It's not sustainable, and that is why our city is growing out of control. Just because this was readily available at one time, doesn't mean it will be forever.

If Calgary isn't for you anymore, move.

Once again what about said individual that has their house paid off/given to them in a middle core of the city that now can't afford to get to work? Should they claim bankruptcy call it quits and become a bum because he can't survive getting to work?

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Ethaniel

Once again what about said individual that has their house paid off/given to them in a middle core of the city that now can't afford to get to work? Should they claim bankruptcy call it quits and become a bum because he can't survive getting to work?

Sell your house, you obviously can't afford it if a $60/month charge is the difference in your budget.

[habernac]

get a bike

[Ozy_Flame]

Agreed. $3 is pennies when compared to daily parking downtown.

I think this is an EXCELLENT idea because guess what? High demand for Park and Ride parking means the City should be jacking up the price. This way, people will look at driving as less of an option, might decide to take other forms of transportation to work, or could even car pool to the Park 'n Rides. Four people in a car? For less than a dollar per day, you can still get to work, reduce the number of cars on the road, create a less demand for infrastructure funding, and help promote the environment.

It's a good idea all around.

[Ronald Pagan]

The fact of the matter is that free parking is a subsidy to everyone using the free parking. That parking lot represents land that can be capitalized for other purposes. Letting people use it for free is inefficient as people are not paying the full costs of their choice of location. The social cost of free parking is paid for by everyone, not just the people using it. With the paid parking, the people using it pay for it. Not people like me who live downtown and don't use it.

If you can't afford the extra $200 a month then you need to move somewhere that will save you that $200. Maybe you don't own a house then and maybe you rent closer to a transit line.

[Ethaniel]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

Sell your house, you obviously can't afford it if a $60/month charge is the difference in your budget.

Once again this is not me that I am talking about Hulkrogan. Some people are in far worse shapes that what i described. Living week to week on a very strict budget. What about those people? What about the single mom with 2 kids and her husband died and life insurance paid off her house, but that is not enough and she has to get downtown to have a decent paying job to support her kids. Now she has 2 hours more childcare and is paying $900 more per month. I agree she has other options, but do you think a lot of people want to up and move just like that?

I got a great idea i think they should start charging full fare price for all travels in the core too. Get rid of the free fare zone and all those business people downtown would a brick over this.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Agreed. $3 is pennies when compared to daily parking downtown.

I think this is an EXCELLENT idea because guess what? High demand for Park and Ride parking means the City should be jacking up the price. This way, people will look at driving as less of an option, might decide to take other forms of transportation to work, or could even car pool to the Park 'n Rides. Four people in a car? For less than a dollar per day, you can still get to work, reduce the number of cars on the road, create a less demand for infrastructure funding, and help promote the environment.

It's a good idea all around.

So, by jacking up the price of parking AT THE TRANSIT STATION it will make people want to take transit? That's well thought out.

This is making the cost of parking downtown relatively cheaper when compared to transit.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

So, by jacking up the price of parking AT THE TRANSIT STATION it will make people want to take transit? That's well thought out.

This is making the cost of parking downtown relatively cheaper when compared to transit.

It is well thought out. There will still be enough people in this city who can pay the $3 per day, and there will be enough demand.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I'll wager that for every person NOT going to pay the fee, there are two Calgarians who WILL.

Supply and demand, bud.

[Bunk]

I love how the only alternative to living in a single detached house brand new subdivision half way to lethbridge is a "600 sq ft apartment downtown". huh?

Last time I checked there are lots of relatively affordable communities, with lots of single family or semi-detached homes with relatively decent transit access. Anywhere within 1-2 km or so of an LRT or BRT has pretty good transit access (either walkable or a short feeder bus connection) - and that is a lot of the city.

And by the way, Calgary has a much better used and extensive transit system than pretty much any other metropolitan area anywhere close to its size in North America. Perhaps Ottawa's is marginally better in some respects.

Calgary's LRT gets 270 000 passengers per day. Portland, OR which has twice the metro population, and is haled as model of smart growth and strong transit in the US, gets HALF the LRT ridership. The C-train gets higher ridership each day than SkyTrain in Vancouver, despite Greater Vancouver also being twice Calgary's population.

Calgarians love the complain, but it must be doing something right.

Part of the effort with these TODs is to facilitate more jobs outside of the downtown core. Brentwood, with the U of C, Research Park and Health Campus are already a big employment hub - this will increase dramatically as the area builds up. This will help with reverse flow commuting and ensure employment is directed to areas outside of the core that have good transit access.

LRT Ridership (amongst NA cities where LRT is the primary rapid transit) versus population served (metropolitan areas) Calgary has the highest absolute numbers and thus far and away the highest per capita - it's not even close.

[Ronald Pagan]

Pagan probably thinks the city should tax the hell out of people and have a more sustainable plan.

not really

People should be paying the full cost of their decisions. That's what I believe in.

[tvp2003]

Anyone think this will have a ripple effect on the service industries in the core (i.e. restaurants, etc.), where people have lower paying positions (i.e. compared to the higher paying office jobs) but likely do the park & ride thing as much if not more than their higher earning counterparts?