8 year old shoots himself to death with an uzi at a gun show

[missdpuck]

I agree Rouge. The dad was probably just extremely ignorant about guns. Hard to believe someone could be that ignorant..but..what about the instructor? Jeez.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by missdpuck

I agree Rouge. The dad was probably just extremely ignorant about guns. Hard to believe someone could be that ignorant..but..what about the instructor? Jeez.

Grey matter was in short supply all around.

[Save Us Sutter]

8 year olds could probably be confused by the gun play they see on tv and in movies.

Fathers (Doctor or not) and gun instructors should probably know better.

Not saying you're wrong Rouge, just saying if you're right then, well, God help us all...!

[missdpuck]

It seems some people can become totally irrational where pleasing their kids is concerned.

[Nancy]

Originally Posted by missdpuck

It seems some people can become totally irrational where pleasing their kids is concerned.

Yah, you have to draw the line with them. This is why I only let my kids shoot .22 calibre handguns.

[RT14]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Is that really necessary? It gets so old.

DFf, I usually agree with what you have to say but yes, it is completely necessary!

“No age limit or licenses required to shoot machine guns, handguns, rifles or shotguns!!!” “You will be accompanied to the firing line with a certified instructor to guide you, But You Are In Control - Full Auto Rock And Roll.”

What in the FFFFFFUUUUUU other modern industrialized country would allow a "show" like this to happen? Off the top of my head, I would say none. Why? Because it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know kids with guns are not only not a good mix, but are completely un-necessary and un-called for. What good, please tell me, what good could possibly come of an event that allows children of ANY age to weild a firearm of ANY kind? I honestly would like to know, because I can't think of ONE single reason this is a good idea and it just blows my mind that in America this is an "extremely popular" event. That fact alone says a great deal as to the mentality of many Americans. If you need a gun to enjoy yourself, something is wrong with your life. If you feel the need to shoot something, play an F'n video game!

Having a child of my own, it makes me sick to think of living in a "civilized" country that allows this demented form of entertainment to happen. I'm seriously outraged by this even though I don't know the family or live in the US. Just solidifies my theory that America is NOT a place I would ever raise a family.

Edit: BTW, I understand the ownership of guns for hunting but there is no reasonable excuse for a kid to hold a gun. They can learn to hunt as adults, can they not?

[RT14]

Originally Posted by Nancy

Yah, you have to draw the line with them. This is why I only let my kids shoot .22 calibre handguns.

Yeah, cuz that's completely safe! No one has ever died from a .22.

[Nancy]

Originally Posted by RT14

Yeah, cuz that's completely safe! No one has ever died from a .22.

I don't like to use green text in my messages. It's much more fun to leave people wondering if you are being sarcastic or not. As to the subject at hand, the terrorists are all teaching their children how to fire guns... in Pakistan, 8 year olds regularly carry AK47s to school with them... are we really going to let them have a hand up on us?

[RT14]

Originally Posted by Nancy

I don't like to use green text in my messages. It's much more fun to leave people wondering if you are being sarcastic or not. As to the subject at hand, the terrorists are all teaching their children how to fire guns... in Pakistan, 8 year olds regularly carry AK47s to school with them... are we really going to let them have a hand up on us?

I can only hope you're not being serious. First of all, no, kids in Pakistan do not regularly carry guns to school with them. Secondly, most major countries find other ways to have the upper hand on war-torn countries, ie proper health care, education, infrastructure, etc.

Edit: Sorry Nancy, in my bout of anger I misunderstood your post and crack of sarcasm. Upon walking to work I realized that you were referring to your original post being sarcastic. In that case, haha. My bad.

[Rathji]

I go shooting with my 8-10 year old nephews whenever I visit them. Last time I was down there they both had some kinda .22 and the oldest is a damn fine shot.

Being responsible and understanding what guns are for are key before anyone touches a gun, kid or not.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by Rathji

I go shooting with my 8-10 year old nephews whenever I visit them. Last time I was down there they both had some kinda .22 and the oldest is a damn fine shot.

Being responsible and understanding what guns are for are key before anyone touches a gun, kid or not.

That goes for any machine or tool.


But that said I won't let my son drive until he can keep it straight on the sidewalk.

[Hack&Lube]

It's not only the father's fault.

The point of the entire show is that kids of ALL AGES can shoot guns. The entire concept of the show is that 8 year olds can shoot.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by Russic

Doesn't get a whole lot more preventable then that. What brutal judgment from everybody involved (except the one who died who was relying on everybody else to keep him safe).

Disagree. Even the eight year old should have had enough common sense. I'll grant you he probably has the least amount of responsibility, especially since he seems to have been raised around gun nuts but wow. I would have known that, shooting an uzi wasn't a good idea at age eight. Again, I'll grant that I was probably raised with more respect towards guns and perhaps better values, but still, come on.

I often find tragedy in some of those things a lot of the darker more morbid people here can find light of but I have to say, I really don't see much here at all. I saw this article earlier and just kinda nodded when I read it. Tragedy is when something unexpected happens. Some twist of fate falls someone who didn't see it coming or didn't deserve it. That didn't happen here. This is about as expected as it comes.

I mean come on, if you were only told the following factors: Gun club/show, eight year old kid, uzi automatic, you probably could have written the ending. Even with 'constant surpervision', you have to surmise that the supervision probably isn't the best, if they're letting a freaking eight year old shoot an uzi anyway!!!

The only hope is that those people around, those that think guns and especially kids with guns are such a good idea learned something this day. If not, well, let them fire more uzi's then.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

I don't know, Daradon. For me, being a parent, this is a hard time for me to be really judgemental or dogmatic. I don't think kids should be shooting machine guns, but also don't know enough about guns that I can claim this was a "predictable" result. I mean, I know about stuff like "recoil" in theory, but not firsthand. In the end, all I can think about with this thing, (which I've heard about a lot on the radio, since it happened not far from here) is two things:
1. I can think of nothing more awful than losing a child.
2. Except for one thing: losing a child and knowing I could have prevented it.

My heart goes out to this guy: if he's anything like me or any other parent that I know--his life is ruined. I don't even know what I could say to comfort him. No words would suffice.

[Daradon]

^^^ I understand losing a child would be devastating. And you would think it would be SOOOO devestating that the adult would be smart enough to see the danger.

I'm sure it will ruin his life, but it probably should. He obviously should not have kids. (And now he doesn't, funny how that works) Heck I hope this hurts his job, he shouldn't be working with them either.

And the whole show should be charged.

I guess I see the tragedy after all, i just think it's SOOO senseless, it makes me mad.

[Traditional_Ale]

I get upset when I'm in the store and some kid has got the gimmies to Mom and Dad for a toy gun.

I feel for parents in this situation. The store and society say to the kid "here you go, play with guns! Its fun and cool!" and poor Dad doesn't want to be a jerk or too heavy-handed because its a toy in a freakin' dollar-store. Who cares right? Be a jerk and make the kid obsess about getting toy guns more, or let him have toy guns and hope nothing comes of it.

Usually in this situation I have no problem saying to the kid "hey man, put down the guns and buy a guitar," which usually has Dad right away saying "see, he thinks guitars are way cooler than guns" (this works cause I have long hair and "goatee" (sp?)) and off they go to L&M to look at a $100 guitar instead of a $2 plastic piece of crap.

Bottom line...when I was a kid we didn't think anything of playing with toy guns and "playing war" but now if I had kids I would never ever let them "play war", especially with toy guns that look so real. Water-fights with supersoakers is one-thing, but "playing war" before you're old enough to take a paintball shot is wrong.

I would never ever let my kids play with real guns. This dood is seriously going to burn in hell, and I'm not even a religious person thinking it.

[Save Us Sutter]

Had to bump this to add a few more quotes from the father.

Originally Posted by Confused Dad

This accident was truly a mystery to me," he said. "This is a horrible event, a horrible travesty, and I really don't know why it happened. I don't think it's relevant that [the instructor] wasn't holding the weapon."

Really?? A mystery? You give an 8 year old an UZI and you "don't know what happened". Here's what happened. You gave your kid a gun, turned around to make sure you camera was ready to capture the monumental moment and he shot himself in the head. I also don't get how it's irrelevant that the instructor wasn't holding the gun like he had done for other small children.

Just ridiculous if you ask me.

Here's the link: http://www.boston.com/news/local/mas...uestions_echo/

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by missdpuck

It seems some people can become totally irrational where pleasing their kids is concerned.

That's one possibility. The other is that maybe the Dad was so gung ho that the kid didn't feel he had a choice or wasn't exposed to the danger before jumping into the fire.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by NuclearFart

I guess that's my question: Why are they even allowing kids to shoot guns or any sort? Kids arent allowed to drive cars, and that's at least somewhat of a life skill. Knowing how to shoot a gun (regardless of automatic-ity) is not even close to life skills.

Sorry for the delay, but I couldn't stick around last night. I wanted to get back to this and was thinking about it quite a bit today.

Again, your question is very vague. The term 'kids' encompasses a huge variety of intelect, strength, personality and experience. You've defined guns as all guns evidently. That's what I'm getting anyway, correct me if I'm wrong.

I'll try to shed a little light on it from my point of view as someone who grew up around guns, has used guns and believes in the right to own certain guns.

Let me preface the rest of what I'm going to say by directing anyone who disagrees with me and is in attack mode back to my first post in this thread. No 8 year old, and IMO no human being who is not in law enforcement or the military, should be firing automatic weapons IMO. There is zero benefit to it outside of an adrenaline rush. The dangers are high as we've seen. These guns were manufactured to kill PEOPLE. Should be illegal IMO.

Every kid is different. Not all kids are ready to use a gun at the same age. (no, I'm not advocating guns be in every kids life). I don't remember the first time I shot a gun...I'm guessing I was 10 or 11. I had a BB gun before that. BB guns can be dangerous as well. Twice I lost mine for misuse. The first time I fired it inside my bedroom at the ceiling. (keep in mind this was a spring loaded daisy...not an air gun..big difference). My Dad heard and I lost it for months. The next time my Grandma hired me to shoot magpies out of her garden. 4 hours later I brought her outside to show her all of the BIRDS I had killed. One of them was a magpie and none of them were shot in the garden. I lost it again and learned a valuable lesson about when it is ok to kill an animal and when it isn't. Looking back, I got that gun a little too early I think but the experience helped me.

My Dad's been hunting since he was 10. We were brought up in the outdoors. We fished and hunted. We consumed the meat we harvested. We learned the value of wildlife, the majesty of nature and a respect for both that is unending and special to me. We lived on wild meat through some pretty lean years too. I started shooting a single shot .22 rifle at 10 or 11 and moved on from there. I took a hunter's safety course (also includes gun safety) and passed with flying colors. This is a requirement to be able to purchase hunting licenses. I'm sure it's the same in Alberta.

This 'lifestyle' is part of who I am. I can't imagine having grown up without it. I haven't been as dilligent in passing it on to my son, but that time will come. I don't actually own a gun right now. I don't think I would ever own a handgun, but i will certainly own hunting rifles in the future.

It's easy to sit back and be incredulous at why people want to own guns or shoot, but the reasons (some of them) are very valid and very valuable.

[BuzzardsWife]

Originally Posted by Canada 02

being a doctor means he's educated, doesnt mean he's intelligent

ohhh so true! my friend is married to a very messed up guy, and he's a doctor