Guy molests and makes videos of his daughter...gets 9 years!

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by MaDMaN_26

I think he should be locked up until the victim forgives him and ask for him to be released... if that never happens then to bad so sad. If the victim chooses to forgive him and petition for his release as part of a process to move on and complete the healing then so be it. I say leave it in the victims hands... with the exception that they must be an adult or 21 before they can make that call...

That in itself is another very interesting idea and kind of along the lines of what I was meaning when I said, 'service to the victim'.

It's a lose-lose scenario for sure, but you can't change the past, you can only try to make the future better.

[CaptainCrunch]

Except what happens if she forgives him because he's good enough to show some remorse, he gets out and does it to someone else.

That would pretty much destroy the victim.

[habernac]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Except what happens if she forgives him because he's good enough to show some remorse, he gets out and does it to someone else.

That would pretty much destroy the victim.

or if they did it out of some sort of fear.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Except what happens if she forgives him because he's good enough to show some remorse, he gets out and does it to someone else.

That would pretty much destroy the victim.

Wasn't saying it should be the only punishment, but more of a qualification for eventual release.

Again I know it's not a perfect idea, just opening a dialogue.

[CaptainCrunch]

Personally I think the justice system should have three considerations in the following order

1) Public Safety - Criminal doesn't even get a chance at freedom til its proven by the criminal that he's in no way a threat to public safety.

2) Victim Rights - Central to any concept of Justice

3) Rehabilitation - It can't abrogate the above two, but there has to be a concerted effort for rehabilitation by the criminal and the system.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Personally I think the justice system should have three considerations in the following order

1) Public Safety - Criminal doesn't even get a chance at freedom til its proven by the criminal that he's in no way a threat to public safety.

2) Victim Rights - Central to any concept of Justice

3) Rehabilitation - It can't abrogate the above two, but there has to be a concerted effort for rehabilitation by the criminal and the system.

I agree with all of those points and that order. Though I don't believe they always have to be assessed individually, often they go hand in hand. Obviously 1 and 3 do very much so.

As I was saying earlier, just curious about what everyone thought about proper sentences since everyone seemed to think 9 years was laughable.

I guess a larger issue was that people consider our system to be such a joke. Sure it's not perfect, but I don't think it's a joke either. I wanted to hear more interesting ideas or opinions than just, 'lock em up forever'. I mean stuff like this only gets posted cause of the 'rubberneck factor', and that's a shame. So people can all wring their hands and say 'oh that's terrible', and 'criminals get off way too easy'. That's not hard to do, and more disturbingly it's voyeuristic and only adds to the problem.

Surely there can be a larger purpose to these types of threads then just the typical knee-jerk reactions. That's all I was trying to bring.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Daradon

I agree with all of those points and that order. Though I don't believe they always have to be assessed individually, often they go hand in hand. Obviously 1 and 3 do very much so.

As I was saying earlier, just curious about what everyone thought about proper sentences since everyone seemed to think 9 years was laughable.

I guess a larger issue was that people consider our system to be such a joke. Sure it's not perfect, but I don't think it's a joke either. I wanted to hear more interesting ideas or opinions than just, 'lock em up forever'. I mean stuff like this only gets posted cause of the 'rubberneck factor', and that's a shame. So people can all wring their hands and say 'oh that's terrible', and 'criminals get off way too easy'. That's not hard to do, and more disturbingly it's voyeuristic and only adds to the problem.

Surely there can be a larger purpose to these types of threads then just the typical knee-jerk reactions. That's all I was trying to bring.

I've always thought that the criminal justice system has to be re-aligned when it comes to child sex crimes, I honestly think that child rapists and molesters should automatically have the dangerous offender label attached to their file one they're convicted with no chance for interpretation by the judges.

In other words, there should be no limit to the sentence of these monsters and they only get out once its proven that they won't re-offend and when they're released they're restricted from attending any area frequented by kids and they wear an ankle bracelet for the rest of their lives.

I've never seen a single study that's shown that pedophiles can be cured. Even this scumbag was considered to be a model prisoner, and went through the full treatment and he still acted on his compulsion.

So to answer your question, I believe it has to be an open ended sentence, no limit until certain conditions are met.

[Daradon]

I wasn't ripping on you per se, your posts are always very good, and you did get specific here. Plus I never really disagreed with anything you said.

I do like the idea of opened sentencing in many cases and I do believe that child sex crimes should be punished harder than they are.

As I mentioned earlier I do believe more emphasis should be put on serving society or the victim where possible than jail time. Jail time should be used, as you mentioned, mostly to keep society safe. It's expensive as a punishment, and doesn't often work as a deterrant. Obviously some time behind bars is often needed and in serious cases like this I have no problem with even a little more, but if there are other ways to keep society safe, why not look into those?

I also think more emphasis should be put on 'paying the debt to society or to the victim'. People often confuse the jail time with this. Jail time does not serve the community, it takes away from it. If something is worked in where the community is actually served, I'd be all for that. And if something is worked in where the victim is compensated or somehow made ammend by the criminal all the better. Obviously this gets harder to do the more violent the case, but is not always impossible, even in the worst cases.

To sum up my point I guess, if people want to overhaul the system that's fine with me, but I hope it focuses on more thanjust time served and fines. I hope it takes into account the whole gamut of the problem.

[Kjesse]

I agree with everyone here that this crime is particularly heinous, but does no one think that 9 years is a very long time?

Had he raped and killed his daughter, he'd get 25 years, that is the maximum. If the rapes involved overt physical force, he'd probably have gotten 15 years, maybe 12 on the low end. That is not to diminish the psychological force here, but there is some difference.

Now, give the girl's mother a gun and a moment alone with the er, and I'll agree real justice will likely result, but still, 9 years is no cakewalk, this guy will probably do time that is so difficult he'd wish he was dead.

A poster above asked 'why give double credit for time served'. The answer is, it is a compromise--- nobody can be punished without having been proved guilty. But for some crimes it is a danger to release them into the public, and so even though the offense has not been proved, they remain in jail despite their Charter rights. But when they get convicted, time spent is counted 2 to 1. I think that is a decent compromise.

If this guy gets released after 1/2 of that time, I'd be pretty pissed, but I think 9 years is a very very long time. His daughter will never be, psychologically, what she should or could be, but I think 9 years is appropriate here, however unpopular that opinion may be.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by Delgar

I agree with everyone here that this crime is particularly heinous, but does no one think that 9 years is a very long time?

That's what I asked in my original post, got the feeling that people were underestimating just how much time 9 years was. Still I'd probably give him 12-15. But the fact that 9 was a 'slap on the wrist' did prompt me to ask the same question.

[HOZ]

I believe the judges do NOT have a lot of freedom to choose the length. It is mandated by law how much.

The problem here is the system. 9 years may have been the maximum the judge was allowed to sentence this piece of dung.

[CaptainCrunch]

Frankly no, I don't think that 9 years is long enough for a crime involving a child, I don't think that 9 years is near long enough for a crime involving a child that your in a position of authority over, I don't think that 9 years is long enough for a sexual crime against a child.

Now if you add those 9's together then your talking in my language.

This wasn't a crime of passion, this wasn't a accidental mistake, this was a gut churning intentional violation where he molested his kid multiple times and never tried to stop himself.

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by Delgar

If this guy gets released after 1/2 of that time, I'd be pretty pissed, but I think 9 years is a very very long time. His daughter will never be, psychologically, what she should or could be, but I think 9 years is appropriate here, however unpopular that opinion may be.

No one ever serves their full term. They get double time credit for time served awaiting trail and then there is mandatory parole after 2/3 served. He will be out in less than 6 yrs.

25 yrs for rape and murder is not enough in the first place; so 9 for repeated sexual abuse of a child is not enough either.

The rate of recidivism is way higher amoung pedophiles than murders.... I for one do not belief they can be rehabilitated. It is hard wired in them; just like being hetrosexual, homosexual, bi-sexual, beastiality, etc, etc....

[mrdeeds]

Originally Posted by First Lady

The rate of recidivism is way higher amoung pedophiles than murders.... I for one do not belief they can be rehabilitated. It is hard wired in them; just like being hetrosexual, homosexual, bi-sexual, beastiality, etc, etc....

What would you make of chemical castration as a means of punishment for sexual predators/pedophiles. This is something I myself would be in favour of. If it works, all society would benefit.

[transplant99]

No...9 years is no where long enough and it certainly isnt "a long time".

As First Lady points out....parole will most certainly be granted after just 6 years...the length of Dion Phaneufs contract. Think about that.

IMO this crime is among the most heinous humans can commit. This poor child will NEVER be free of what happened to her. It is a life long sentance of her own. Especially considering this stuff is now in the public domain because of the video taping and posting on the inter-net.

Rehabilitation is also very unlikely, meaning that this prick is very very likely to re-offend when he is released. Its what these monsters do and they apparently have no control to stop themselves.

Combine all that and 9 years really is nothing more than a slap on the wrist. If it is all the judge was allowed to hand down, then the whole " justice system is a joke" is very appropriate. If she was allowed to send him away longer but chose not to, then again the whole "system is a joke" applies.

What is an appropriate sentence? How about he goes to prison with no time limit attached and is only released when/if he is deemed to be re-habbed by qualified medical professionals? Should he never be deemed so...then he lives out his life behind the walls of isolation.

Some may think that is too harsh....but that would require me to have some compassion for guys like this...I dont. Nor should I. he made his choices knowing full well what sort of damage he was implementing on his own child.....that supercedes me having to be empathetic to him just because he is "human".

[DementedReality]

i say build a camp way up in arctic ... these offenders should spend the rest of their life, 18 hours a day digging a hole, filling a hole. dig a hole, fill a hole. dig a hole, fill a hole.

18 hours a day. every day. for the rest of their life. no breaks, no days off. no rest. in the arctic. dig a hole, fill a hole.

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by mrdeeds

What would you make of chemical castration as a means of punishment for sexual predators/pedophiles. This is something I myself would be in favour of. If it works, all society would benefit.

Honestly, I don't know much about this. Does it alter the ability to have sex? Does it stop the perverted thought process?

I think if it "disables" them for sexual intercourse, there would be people arguing that would be inhumane.
If it doesn't alter they way they think; what is stopping them from still violoating children in other ways?

One sure way that I know they will not reoffend is to be behind locked doors.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by First Lady

Honestly, I don't know much about this. Does it alter the ability to have sex? Does it stop the perverted thought process?

I think if it "disables" them for sexual intercourse, there would be people arguing that would be inhumane.
If it doesn't alter they way they think; what is stopping them from still violoating children in other ways?

One sure way that I know they will not reoffend is to be behind locked doors.

And what he did to his own daughter isn't? The fact someone would do this to a little kid should take all their rights away.

[CaptainCrunch]

I'm going to misspell his name badly but . . .

Andrei Chikitallo a serial killer in Russia who had an urge to molest and kill young children was sexually incapable of performing intercourse and it didn't stop his overwhelming urges.

Chemical castration does disable the actual act of intercourse, but it dosen't change the mental wiring of the person.

You could chemically or physically castrate this dirt bag, but he would still be strongly attracted to young children.

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by HOOT

And what he did to his own daughter isn't?

I said there would be people..... not me !

The fact someone would do this to a little kid should take all their rights away.

Totally agree.