Man stabbed, then decapitated on grey hound bus

[worth]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

A concealed weapon would not have prevented this act. I doubt anything would have - it sounds like a guy snapped.

And to use this tragedy as an excuse to push your personal agenda is tactless.

I agreed with you. I think you need to re-read my post. I dind't say it would have prevented it.

Puh-leese, this is a forum where we discuss topics. Nowhere does it say that in topics where people get decapitated I need to write "RIP" and move along.

[Canada 02]

off topic sociological question: is this "shocking" because an innocent man was killed, or because of the way he was killed? In other words, if he was just stabbed to death instead of the subsequent decapitation, would this be as shocking or newsworthy?

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by worth

I agreed with you. I think you need to re-read my post. I dind't say it would have prevented it.

Puh-leese, this is a forum where we discuss topics. Nowhere does it say that in topics where people get decapitated I need to write "RIP" and move along.

Would it have made them feel safer if they wondered if the mad man had a gun? If, instead of taking a knife to the bus door, wondering he had a gun trained on someone outside the bus? Or if someone had a weapon concealed in an overhead rack?

You don't need to post "RIP" and leave, but the only thing you did post was "CCW please", and you are the champion of this cause in any gun thread discussion. You were portraying this as an excuse for allowing CCW. I'm saying that's a load of BS.

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by Canada 02

off topic sociological question: is this "shocking" because an innocent man was killed, or because of the way he was killed? In other words, if he was just stabbed to death instead of the subsequent decapitation, would this be as shocking or newsworthy?

Of course it would be newsworthy!

I've never given a thought to falling asleep on the Greyhound.

The decapitation and behavior of the assailant just makes the whole thing a little extra sick, but no less newsworthy!

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

Would it have made them feel safer if they wondered if the mad man had a gun? If, instead of taking a knife to the bus door, wondering he had a gun trained on someone outside the bus? Or if someone had a weapon concealed in an overhead rack?

You don't need to post "RIP" and leave, but the only thing you did post was "CCW please", and you are the champion of this cause in any gun thread discussion. You were portraying this as an excuse for allowing CCW. I'm saying that's a load of BS.

There is the possibility that a CCW would have resolved this situation a lot faster...

[OilersBaby]

OMG that is so scary. I used to take Greyhound all the time from Edmonton to Fort Mac when I went to the U of A. I think my brother still takes it every now and then....yikes.

I wouldve never expected that to happen in Canada. I know here in California most people dont take Greyhound and its more expensive than a flight is between Californian cities.

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by peter12

There is the possibility that a CCW would have resolved this situation a lot faster...

With the attacker ending up dead instead of spending a life in prison being raped and gang-banged all day every day by hordes of huge, unforgiving monsters? Sounds like justice to me!

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

With the attacker ending up dead instead of spending a life in prison being raped and gang-banged all day every day by hordes of huge, unforgiving monsters? Sounds like justice to me!

Seriously, I think the ability to respond immediately and fight back against perverse killers of this ilk gives a huge psychological advantage to the rest of the people in the bus. Which would be worse: watching someone's head get sawed off or being forced to run because you are absolutely helpless to do anything about it?

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by Canada 02

off topic sociological question: is this "shocking" because an innocent man was killed, or because of the way he was killed? In other words, if he was just stabbed to death instead of the subsequent decapitation, would this be as shocking or newsworthy?

I think most of the shock comes from this apparently being a random act. It's being reported that the killer didn't know the victim. The decapitating part just added to the gruesomeness (is that even a word?) of the whole ordeal.

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by peter12

Seriously, I think the ability to respond immediately and fight back against perverse killers of this ilk gives a huge psychological advantage to the rest of the people in the bus. Which would be worse: watching someone's head get sawed off or being forced to run because you are absolutely helpless to do anything about it?

In the hands of the average citizen I would agree. But because there is far to high a percentage of society that would be incapable of responsible ownership/use (ie, USA) I would argue that things would become a lot more dangerous.

[Bill Bumface]

I really really hope this wasn't race related...

[Canada 02]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

Of course it would be newsworthy!

I've never given a thought to falling asleep on the Greyhound.

The decapitation and behavior of the assailant just makes the whole thing a little extra sick, but no less newsworthy!

sorry, i probably did a bad job of communicating my question. Of course a murder is newsworthy. I should have just stuck to my original line of thought and just asked about the shocking nature of this murder, but would a stabbing outside Winnipeg garner attention on CNN if not for the shocking way the murder was carried out?

The decapitation is what makes this worse, no?

It doesn't further victimize the murder victim, he's already dead (hope that doesnt sound flippant), it sort of victimizes the witnesses, the murder victims family or anyone who hears the story. The decapitation leaves a much stronger (horrific) image than just a stabbing, at least it does for me. Maybe that says more about my twisted mind; that murders don't shock me anymore, and something more horrific than just the murder, like the decapitation is needed to evoke that horror

[Russic]

Originally Posted by peter12

There is the possibility that a CCW would have resolved this situation a lot faster...

I see your point, but a ccw also could have made this even more tragic. The attacker could have had a gun and shot people as they fled, or one of the bus patrons could have tried to shoot the attacker and hit somebody else. I agree that another possible outcome could be that the attacker would be taken down, but that's the best case scenario.

[worth]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

Would it have made them feel safer if they wondered if the mad man had a gun? If, instead of taking a knife to the bus door, wondering he had a gun trained on someone outside the bus? Or if someone had a weapon concealed in an overhead rack?

You don't need to post "RIP" and leave, but the only thing you did post was "CCW please", and you are the champion of this cause in any gun thread discussion. You were portraying this as an excuse for allowing CCW. I'm saying that's a load of BS.

Are you implying that by implementing a CCW system, the killer would be more inclined to use this system instead of using a knife? If you want a gun, and you're a criminal, you can get one regardless of CCW or not. I don't see the relation between implementing CCW and the people on the bus thinking the attacker could have a gun.

In the hands of the average citizen I would agree. But because there is far to high a percentage of society that would be incapable of responsible ownership/use (ie, USA) I would argue that things would become a lot more dangerous.

Check the stats on CCW permits in the US. people who apply for them are responsible gun owners and abide all local and federal laws. These are the people you want having guns. Gun violence in the US is brought on by criminals, not those with CCW permits.

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by peter12

There is the possibility that a CCW would have resolved this situation a lot faster...

There is also the possibility that the nutjob could have had a gun and shot up the bus and killed a lot more people in the same time it took him to butcher the single victim.

[worth]

Originally Posted by Russic

I see your point, but a ccw also could have made this even more tragic. The attacker could have had a gun and shot people as they fled, or one of the bus patrons could have tried to shoot the attacker and hit somebody else. I agree that another possible outcome could be that the attacker would be taken down, but that's the best case scenario.

Again, I don't see the correlation between CCW and having a gun. It's not like if the government introduces CCW, everyone suddenly has access to guns...because we already do! I have a possession and acquisition license and I can go to any sporting goods store right now and purchase any non-restricted firearm and take it home today. Criminals can go to their local white van in an alley and purchase any gun regardless of CCW, PAL or other licensing.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by peter12

There is the possibility that a CCW would have resolved this situation a lot faster...

Possibly.
Or it could have made it worse, should the wrong person have gotten the weapon, or someone inappropriately tried to be a hero.

If the madman was killed, wouldn't there be questions for years about "Why"? .."why did he do it"... and so on?


This was a horrible crime, and people who were on that bus will have nightmares, but the way that it turned out was about as "good" as it could have (given that the victim never had a chance) - no one else was hurt, the bad guy was caught, and there might be a chance to find out why he did it.
Given that, I'm not sure how a concealed weapon (aka Concealed Carry Weapon) could have helped in this situation in any way.

[worth]

CCW

[chris lindberg]

Originally Posted by fotze

WHAT THE FATA DOES CCW stand for?

Also, didn;t they say it was a 'Rambo' knife not a butcher knife?

I was wondering the same, I was just about to post that myself and wiki'ed it.

Concealed carry in the United States (carry concealed weapon)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concealed_carry

like hulk said above, I too hope this wasn't because the young guy was a Native Canadian Indian.

[OilersBaby]

Im confused. Who are you guys saying should have carried a CCW to help this matter?

This whole act is so gruesome, I wouldnt have expected it to happen in Canada. I guess I have this idealistic image of my homeland.