Ontario man tazed, dies

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by flameswin

But that's exactly my point. Cops are using them in both scenarios, and in my case, I would likely be a good candidate to die if I was jolted by one of those things. Firefly mentioned that if you have a medical condition you should know better and not be belligerant, but in the case of heart problems, most of us don't know about it until something happens ie: heart attack, dying from taser shock.

Originally Posted by flameswin

I don't know how to make this any more clear. That's simply not my point. I agree completely that if someone is endarenging a police officer or the public, and the only options the cop had left was to either tase or shoot, then choosing to tase is the right choice, and if the person dies, well it was his own fault. My point is the people who didn't need to be tased, where the cop just thinks it's a good "control" method. The best example is the "don't tase me brp" guy, was he a threat to kill anyone? No, so what if he dies like many others have? That's my point.

I'm certain you exaggerate the extent to which cops are using them on the belligerant and non abusive characters. At the same time, How many times should the cops have to ask a person to calm down or physically try to take them down before they're allowed to tase? I watched the "don't tase me bro" video and it's not like the first thing they did was bust out the taser.

I apologize, I should clarify... when I said belligerant, I meant belligerant and abusive. Cause a person can yell profanities at a cop all they want which is belligerant, but throw in resisting arrest which can put the arresting officer and the person they're arresting in danger, and that's what I meant.

[Swarly]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

Anyways I think some of the anti-taser gang should focus there efforts on this
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-col...ice-taser.html

Transit Cops tazing people who don't have a valid ticket.

okay, I'm all for tasers and such but this is finally too far for me

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Swarly

they beat them with sticks

I kind of figured that would be the response -- "in the old days they'd just beat they crap out of you".

No they didn't. I remember the old days. Anyone over the age of 15 remembers the old days when cops didn't carry tasers.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

Anyways I think some of the anti-taser gang should focus there efforts on this
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-col...ice-taser.html

Transit Cops tazing people who don't have a valid ticket.

So 3 people in a year and a half. (None of whom died.) Do you take the tasers away or do you reprimand the 1-3 transit officers who abused their weapons in such a manner? The other 7 times a person was tased, apparently it was warranted.

[Swarly]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

I kind of figured that would be the response -- "in the old days they'd just beat they crap out of you".

No they didn't. I remember the old days. Anyone over the age of 15 remembers the old days when cops didn't carry tasers.

right i forgot, the cops were never sued due to use of force. back in the old days they used magic

before tasers they carried batons to beat people when neccessary. I believe they still do carry batons also.

[COGENT]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

I kind of figured that would be the response -- "in the old days they'd just beat they crap out of you".

No they didn't. I remember the old days. Anyone over the age of 15 remembers the old days when cops didn't carry tasers.

"the old days" was a different world. The world is getting crazier and more dangerous IMO.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Swarly

right i forgot, the cops were never sued due to use of force. back in the old days they used magic

before tasers they carried batons to beat people when neccessary. I believe they still do carry batons also.

Ooh, green.

The argument here is that perhaps tasers are being used unnecessarily.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by COGENT

"the old days" was a different world. The world is getting crazier and more dangerous IMO.

No it isn't.

[Swarly]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Ooh, green.

The argument here is that perhaps tasers are being used unnecessarily.

I agree caution should be used, however, most of the cases i've heard like the "dont tase me bro" the only real options I see after taking the kid down and him still fighting the police was either tase him, or hit him in the head with a club. which is deadlier?

on a side note I looked up taser on Wiki ( for what thats worth). Interesting read like how the taser got its name, inventor named it after his childhood hero, taser stands for Thomas A. Swift's Electric Rifle. Also says "Tasers were introduced as less-lethal weapons to be used by police to subdue fleeing, belligerent, or potentially dangerous subjects, often when what they consider to be a more lethal weapon would have otherwise been used." dont know where the non-lethal idea came from.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Swarly

I agree caution should be used, however, most of the cases i've heard like the "dont tase me bro" the only real options I see after taking the kid down and him still fighting the police was either tase him, or hit him in the head with a club. which is deadlier?

I don't think that's what they would have done. If those cops didn't have tasers they wouldn't have hit that kid over the head with a club. They would have put a little more effort into it and cuffed him and dragged him out. They even had time to warn him. It wasn't like an emergency. Nobody was in any sort of danger.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

I don't think that's what they would have done. If those cops didn't have tasers they wouldn't have hit that kid over the head with a club. They would have put a little more effort into it and cuffed him and dragged him out. They even had time to warn him. It wasn't like an emergency. Nobody was in any sort of danger.

Exactly..that's the problem with the tasers...cops can resort to them when they aren't necessary, because they are "supposed" to be non-lethal. Its the "safe" way to incapacitate someone. Problem is, it isn't always that safe.

Maybe they just need to have better guiidlines on when to use it..I mean, the guy swinging the stair around...sure, I can see that its a good case for bringing out the taser. University kid trying to cause a scene...no way.

These threads drive me nuts.... it's the same thing over and over.

One comment though and possibly a point you are missing:

LESS LETHAL


not 'non-lethal'.


And you are comparing apples and oranges when you compare incidences of taser use by Canadian police officers (generally very well trained) and American university police.

[Phaneuf3]

I'm usually on the anti-taser side of things but if the reports are true that he was swinging a weapon at people... yea, you deserve a shock.

Even if there is a chance of tasers killing the person - if they are violent and can't be controlled - taser time. If they are threatening or attempting to attack someone with a weapon - taser... or gun... depending on the situation.

The police are out there to protect the public (including a suspect) and themselves. If that involves shocking a few jackasses - so be it. Where I have trouble is when they use tasers on non-violent suspects (or unarmed 'violent' people that fail so badly at resisting that they might as well be non-violent) and against passive resistance.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

I don't think that's what they would have done. If those cops didn't have tasers they wouldn't have hit that kid over the head with a club. They would have put a little more effort into it and cuffed him and dragged him out. They even had time to warn him. It wasn't like an emergency. Nobody was in any sort of danger.

OT

A few years back working at a hotel, I witnessed a female cop being harassed by some drunk guy. He kept approaching her because he was much larger than the cop, so I guess he was trying to intimidate her or something. The cop calmly told the guy: "step down sir, or I will be forced to put you down". After repeating it twice and the guy not following her orders, the female cop proceeded to jab the guy in the throat with her pointer and middle fingers. The guy went down pretty quick. It was the coolest thing I've ever seen!

So back on topic, I guess maybe they should have tried jabbing him in the throat, or maybe even giving him the ol foot to the groin. I'm sure that would put him down just as effectively as a taser shot.

[metallicat]

Originally Posted by flameswin

captaincruch, I understand your point, and I somewhat agree. I guess what I was getting at, is the taser should only be used in the same cases where a gun would have been used before tasers were around. For example, the "don't tase me bro" guy. yeah he was being disruptive, but what if died like many other people have? For the people that legitimatly cause police to use them (ie:the only other option would be to shoot them), then I agree that in those cases the person brought it on themselves.

Tasers are not the same as firearms. You cannot whip the Taser out and hit him with that if you are being faced with a lethal threat situation. Knife = lethal threat = gun.

[jammies]

The taser probably had some peanut butter on it from the cop's lunch.

Some kid walking by was hit by an electrically charged stray peanut molecule as well, and a bystander had to do a tracheotomy with a swiss army knife and a bic pen or he would've died as well.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

OT

A few years back working at a hotel, I witnessed a female cop being harassed by some drunk guy. He kept approaching her because he was much larger than the cop, so I guess he was trying to intimidate her or something. The cop calmly told the guy: "step down sir, or I will be forced to put you down". After repeating it twice and the guy not following her orders, the female cop proceeded to jab the guy in the throat with her pointer and middle fingers. The guy went down pretty quick. It was the coolest thing I've ever seen!

So back on topic, I guess maybe they should have tried jabbing him in the throat, or maybe even giving him the ol foot to the groin. I'm sure that would put him down just as effectively as a taser shot.

Those are as or more dangerous than tasering. Push, kick or twist too hard and the person is paralysed or dead. For years police used the choke hold thinking it was non-lethal. Well they found out different.

Something tells me there is no 100% non-lethal form of subduing someone.

[metallicat]

nevermind

[Antithesis]

Originally Posted by COGENT

"the old days" was a different world. The world is getting crazier and more dangerous IMO.

You've got to stop watching the news, man. You'll be much happier and less prone to believe things like that - I'm not saying you're stupid for thinking that, you can't be faulted for it, but if everyone stopped watching the news, man, we'd be better off.

[moon]

Originally Posted by flameswin

For example, the "don't tase me bro" guy. yeah he was being disruptive, but what if died like many other people have?

If he would have died like the other people perhaps it would make people think twice about fighting cops, whether you believe your moronic shouting warrants or not.

The easiest way to avoid being killed by a cop using a taser is to not fight the cops or act like a jackass when told not to.

I have yet to see or hear of one of these incidents when the person getting tasered didn't deserve it.

I have been young, drunk and stupid as much (and most likely more than) as most people and have never come close to being in this type of situation.

Is it really that hard to avoid be tasered? Am I expecting too much out of people that you don't break the law and then threaten police after doing so?