$2.00/L by...

[HotHotHeat]

Originally Posted by Azure

Ah yeah, $4.00/gallon is a high gas price. Where are you coming up with the dumb idea that the price is normal?

The tone? Well if you think Americans should quit complaining about THEIR high gas prices, maybe Canadians should quit complaining about OUR high gas prices considering Europe pays WAY more than all of us.

My point is that many developed nations throughout the world have been paying these 'high' gas prices for a long time. The US has been extremely protected because of their economic strength for the past several decades. Their economy is now losing that power, and their currency has lost much of it's dominance. So to watch CNN and have them interview Joe Blow about how he can't make ends meet...It's absolutely ridiculous. The US will never be paying less that 4.00 for gas again...Ever.

As for Canadians complaining as well, yes, you hear people upset about how much it costs them to get around...But it's not even nearly as bad up here as in the US. We may not like it, but generally we accept it and do what we must to make adjustments. Is that happening in the US? Hell no. People are waiting and expecting their government to somehow push the price of gas back down. In fact, in Canada politicians are spending time thinking of ways to tax us more! The US is going through a reality check, not a high gas price crisis.

So to answer your question, this price of gas isn't normal, it's still much less than an averaged out comparison country by country. $5.00/gallon would be a little more on par for that.

[Azure]

Its not ridiculous that someone can't make ends meet. People probably budget themselves for a certain amount of money being put towards fuel each year, and now that budget is rising considerably. Wouldn't you complain?

Take your elitist attitude somewhere else.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by Azure

Its not ridiculous that someone can't make ends meet. People probably budget themselves for a certain amount of money being put towards fuel each year, and now that budget is rising considerably. Wouldn't you complain?

Take your elitist attitude somewhere else.

You are completely ignoring his point. I think he's exaggerating a bit, and probably watching too much CNN, but the point that the US consumer is in for a reality check is factual.

[HotHotHeat]

Originally Posted by Azure

Its not ridiculous that someone can't make ends meet. People probably budget themselves for a certain amount of money being put towards fuel each year, and now that budget is rising considerably. Wouldn't you complain?

Take your elitist attitude somewhere else.

Gas prices are not the reason people can't make ends meet. Make sacrifices. If people are on such a tight budget that they can't take a $10-15 per tank increase in their fuel prices (keeping in mind those are some of the lowest fuel prices in the world) there's a good chance they can't afford that car and they're digging themselves further into debt by 'owning' it. Would I be upset and probably complain? Yes. Would I call on my government to figure out a way for me to pay less? No. It's not elitist, it's the reality of using a non renewable resource.

BTW, thanks for the label. I forgot my Obama '08 pin at home.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

You are completely ignoring his point. I think he's exaggerating a bit, and probably watching too much CNN, but the point that the US consumer is in for a reality check is factual.

Which isn't my point.

While the price of gas might stay this high, people never 'expected' it. And to tell you the truth, would the US not sit around for decades on end expecting other countries to provide them with oil, the price might not be so high right now.

Either way, a lot of people who 'drive' for a living have every right to complain right now. The market is going crazy based on 'speculation,'

And it is harder to make ends meet if you're on a tight budget HHH. God forbid you actually have to live that way someday.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by Azure

Which isn't my point.

While the price of gas might stay this high, people never 'expected' it. And to tell you the truth, would the US not sit around for decades on end expecting other countries to provide them with oil, the price might not be so high right now.

Either way, a lot of people who 'drive' for a living have every right to complain right now. The market is going crazy based on 'speculation,'

And it is harder to make ends meet if you're on a tight budget HHH. God forbid you actually have to live that way someday.

Sure, people can complain about higher prices ... anywhere in the world. I don't blame them, however I think the comment that the US was spoiled for a long time is correct though.

That's not elitist, it's just the truth.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

Sure, people can complain about higher prices ... anywhere in the world. I don't blame them, however I think the comment that the US was spoiled for a long time is correct though.

That's not elitist, it's just the truth.

It elitist to say that its ridiculous that people are struggling to make ends meet.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by Azure

It elitist to say that its ridiculous that people are struggling to make ends meet.

Well, some truely are, but for every one of those there are probably at least a couple people who 'struggle' with the current cost of gasoline to go into their brand new car, or have to reach a little deeper into their $150 bag. I think his point was from observing the later.

[HotHotHeat]

Originally Posted by Azure

It elitist to say that its ridiculous that people are struggling to make ends meet.

No, it's not. Explain to me why we should sympathize with a country that already has lower gas prices than nearly anywhere else. I sympathize with people that don't have enough money to eat or a place to live. People complaining about gas prices do not fall in that category, sorry. If you can't afford gas you can't afford a car. Make other arrangements.

[Ice]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

Gas prices are not the reason people can't make ends meet. Make sacrifices. If people are on such a tight budget that they can't take a $10-15 per tank increase in their fuel prices (keeping in mind those are some of the lowest fuel prices in the world) there's a good chance they can't afford that car and they're digging themselves further into debt by 'owning' it. Would I be upset and probably complain? Yes. Would I call on my government to figure out a way for me to pay less? No. It's not elitist, it's the reality of using a non renewable resource.

BTW, thanks for the label. I forgot my Obama '08 pin at home.

I'll start off by saying I'm pretty lucky that the increased gas prices have not affected my too badly personally...yet. However, filling my car with gas cost me 89 dollars and change yesterday. That is over 30 dollars more than a year ago. I have to fill my car at least once a week, if not more. Families with two cars and a tight budget can be severly affected by an increase of this size. The increase in fuel prices has caused increases in the costs off almost everything else. So while people shouldn't be surprised, I think its fair for people to demand some relief from all the taxes on the gasoline imposed by the government. The government, who frankly, should've been coming up with a way to be less dependant on the mideast for oil back in the 70's but never did.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by Ice

I'll start off by saying I'm pretty lucky that the increased gas prices have not affected my too badly personally...yet. However, filling my car with gas cost me 89 dollars and change yesterday. That is over 30 dollars more than a year ago. I have to fill my car at least once a week, if not more. Families with two cars and a tight budget can be severly affected by an increase of this size. The increase in fuel prices has caused increases in the costs off almost everything else. So while people shouldn't be surprised, I think its fair for people to demand some relief from all the taxes on the gasoline imposed by the government. The government, who frankly, should've been coming up with a way to be less dependant on the mideast for oil back in the 70's but never did.

It's a free country, why rely on the gov't to be less dependant on oil? Every individual has a choice as to how to run their life, 3 years ago we made many decisions to decrease our need for gas, moved within walking distance of work and sold one of our cars. Now we buy a bout 1.5 tanks of gas per month. Everyone had that choice.

Sure the govt could do more to promote substitues, but democracy is all about catering to the hot issue of the day, thinking 5 or 10 years into the future generates zero votes. Mouth service about the issue of the day is what keeps politicians in power.

And to me, if you have to tax things, taxing consumer purchases of gasoline is as good a place as any.

[HotHotHeat]

Originally Posted by Ice

I'll start off by saying I'm pretty lucky that the increased gas prices have not affected my too badly personally...yet. However, filling my car with gas cost me 89 dollars and change yesterday. That is over 30 dollars more than a year ago. I have to fill my car at least once a week, if not more. Families with two cars and a tight budget can be severly affected by an increase of this size. The increase in fuel prices has caused increases in the costs off almost everything else. So while people shouldn't be surprised, I think its fair for people to demand some relief from all the taxes on the gasoline imposed by the government. The government, who frankly, should've been coming up with a way to be less dependant on the mideast for oil back in the 70's but never did.

That's exactly the point. The way America has been built requires cheap transportation costs. There's a very dire structural problem in many of the urban centers in the US (LA is probably the worst). Urban sprawl is a very basic problem that people have been speaking out against for decades...The problem is that no one listened. On top of that, America needs 100's of billions of dollars invested in transportation infrastructure that quite frankly it doesn't have. I read a report this past winter predicting the number of privatized roadways (which usually equals toll road) would increase greatly in the next 10-15 years.

IMO your government has done about all they can to keep gas prices down in your country. They managed to couple your currency with the price of oil...That's probably the greatest diplomatic (term used loosely) feat of the 20th century. To say your government has not taken steps to decouple itself from heavy mid eastern oil reliance depends on what you view as motivation for much that has happened in the past 30-40 years.

This is getting off topic, but Ron Paul wrote a great article on dollar hegemony a couple years ago. Here's the link if you'd like:

http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/co...6/cr021506.htm

[MelBridgeman]

Ya as a guy who coaches a high level of minor hockey (volunteer)...this is really going to suck...for everyone - coaches, officials, parents and players. Of course some of the elitist in this thread can only think in linear ways.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

No, it's not. Explain to me why we should sympathize with a country that already has lower gas prices than nearly anywhere else. I sympathize with people that don't have enough money to eat or a place to live. People complaining about gas prices do not fall in that category, sorry. If you can't afford gas you can't afford a car. Make other arrangements.

Wow.

There are a lot of truckers going under because of high fuel costs, I guess they should just find another job, right?

Like I said, take your elitist attitude somewhere else. There are a lot of people who are struggling with the higher fuel prices. If you're living from paycheck to paycheck and suddenly it costs you $30 more to fill your tank, well, it creates a problem.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

It's a free country, why rely on the gov't to be less dependant on oil? Every individual has a choice as to how to run their life, 3 years ago we made many decisions to decrease our need for gas, moved within walking distance of work and sold one of our cars. Now we buy a bout 1.5 tanks of gas per month. Everyone had that choice.

Yeah, good for you.

I suppose everyone else should just be able to up, sell their house, buy a new one and move closer to work?

Sure the govt could do more to promote substitues, but democracy is all about catering to the hot issue of the day, thinking 5 or 10 years into the future generates zero votes. Mouth service about the issue of the day is what keeps politicians in power.

I don't think the government CAN do anything. Not as a short-term fix anyways. But they could have drilled for oil off-shore or in ANWAR 10 years ago.

And to me, if you have to tax things, taxing consumer purchases of gasoline is as good a place as any.

Yep, hurt the consumer even more. Gotta love that.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

And to me, if you have to tax things, taxing consumer purchases of gasoline is as good a place as any.

It would be called a tax on everything, you know taxes solve problems.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

That's exactly the point. The way America has been built requires cheap transportation costs. There's a very dire structural problem in many of the urban centers in the US (LA is probably the worst). Urban sprawl is a very basic problem that people have been speaking out against for decades...The problem is that no one listened. On top of that, America needs 100's of billions of dollars invested in transportation infrastructure that quite frankly it doesn't have. I read a report this past winter predicting the number of privatized roadways (which usually equals toll road) would increase greatly in the next 10-15 years.

IMO your government has done about all they can to keep gas prices down in your country. They managed to couple your currency with the price of oil...That's probably the greatest diplomatic (term used loosely) feat of the 20th century. To say your government has not taken steps to decouple itself from heavy mid eastern oil reliance depends on what you view as motivation for much that has happened in the past 30-40 years.

This is getting off topic, but Ron Paul wrote a great article on dollar hegemony a couple years ago. Here's the link if you'd like:

http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/co...6/cr021506.htm

See, now you're going a different direction with this, and one that I agree with.

But you can't blame the average person on these 'problems.' Politicians in the US haven't been known to plan for the future all that much. I guess you could bring up the point that they vote for them, again, something that I agree with.

Then again, US elections are about nice words and telling people what they want to hear. Not about solving 'problems.' So while it isn't any surprise that the gas prices are shooting through the roof, I have a hard time thinking its ridiculous that people are struggling to get along.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by Azure

Yeah, good for you.

I suppose everyone else should just be able to up, sell their house, buy a new one and move closer to work?

My point is everyone has a choice. No need to blame the government for a problem we all saw coming for years.

Originally Posted by Azure

I don't think the government CAN do anything. Not as a short-term fix anyways. But they could have drilled for oil off-shore or in ANWAR 10 years ago.

ya the US could drill a little more, but really that isn't the solution. in the scheme of things some more off shore drilling just puts off the inevitable.

The government could sponsor more R and D, but I understand until now it would not earn many votes ... it would today though.

Originally Posted by Azure

Yep, hurt the consumer even more. Gotta love that.

Yep, get them off their crack, suits me fine. By consumer I don't mean people who use it for commercial use, just the people who make the decision to live in Cranston and work downtown.

Something has to be taxed, I don't know what I'd tax in front of gasoline.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

Something has to be taxed, I don't know what I'd tax in front of gasoline.

Gasoline is already heavily taxed...

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

My point is everyone has a choice. No need to blame the government for a problem we all saw coming for years.

And my point is that not everyone has the ability to just up and move closer to work.

ya the US could drill a little more, but really that isn't the solution. in the scheme of things some more off shore drilling just puts off the inevitable.

And whats that? Running out of oil? More refineries would help too.

The government could sponsor more R and D, but I understand until now it would not earn many votes ... it would today though.

Both Obama and McCain are talking about building nuclear plants. I hope they stick to their word.

Yep, get them off their crack, suits me fine. By consumer I don't mean people who use it for commercial use, just the people who make the decision to live in Cranston and work downtown.

Something has to be taxed, I don't know what I'd tax in front of gasoline.

Guess what, you'd think that $9.00/gallon would stop the French from driving, right? It doesn't. They're driving just as much.