Where have you been looking? There's two versions that I've seen, one that's just basically the movie, then there was a 30th anniversary edition, or something to that effect, released last year to hype up the new movie.
I'm sure WalMart or Future Shop still has them kicking around.
Tried Walmart (Westbrook) not long ago, no luck there. Tried a bunch of Blockbusters/Rogers Videos/etc, but not a futureshop yet.
Optimus Prime and Megatron looking like they're actually supposed to... Unicron a true evil.... better charaters... better plot.... better music....
Now what are Optimus and Megatron supposed to look like? The Cartoon? The Toys? The Comic?
It's not the same Optimus and Megatron. They don't have to look the same because they're different characters with the same name. They looked fine for what they were.
A true evil? Do you know what the origin of Unicron was in the cartoon? He was made by a monkey as a science fair project and got his ass beat by a shiny bauble. The closest thing to true evil that actually managed anything is Beastwars-era Megatron who actually wiped out the Maximals/Autobots and took over Cybertron. Did you not notice Unicron never actually killed any named Transformer? Yeah, he was an all-star.
Better characters? I might give you that, but what was better about the characters? Explain? I'd take 07 movie Ironhide over Kup. 07 Optimus over Magnus. 07 Frenzy over Cyclonus.
Better plot? Well yeah, they took it straight from the Star Wars script.
Better music I will concede outright. Vince Diacola did some amazing stuff.
Now what are Optimus and Megatron supposed to look like? The Cartoon? The Toys? The Comic?
It's not the same Optimus and Megatron. They don't have to look the same because they're different characters with the same name. They looked fine for what they were.
A true evil? Do you know what the origin of Unicron was in the cartoon? He was made by a monkey as a science fair project and got his ass beat by a shiny bauble. The closest thing to true evil that actually managed anything is Beastwars-era Megatron who actually wiped out the Maximals/Autobots and took over Cybertron. Did you not notice Unicron never actually killed any named Transformer? Yeah, he was an all-star.
Better characters? I might give you that, but what was better about the characters? Explain? I'd take 07 movie Ironhide over Kup. 07 Optimus over Magnus. 07 Frenzy over Cyclonus.
Better plot? Well yeah, they took it straight from the Star Wars script.
Better music I will concede outright. Vince Diacola did some amazing stuff.
Glad we can agree on one thing
I guess what it really comes down to is the 1986 movie was during my childhood, when I had the toys, when I watched the show... etc. I just didn't like how megatron was a jaggedy thing that turned into a jet-like thing and wasn't even introduced until into the second half.
Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the 07 movie and will be super stoked for the next one.
Character wise, for me it's the Quintessons, Junkions, Blurr, etc. IMO much better than the 'secondary' characters in 07.
Btw, Unicron didn't kill any 'main' characters, but he did his fair share of 'evil killing' lol.
No, you need to integrate it with the entire earth. Show the other Transformers some how fighting it. They'd barely be a speck. We'd rarely see more than an armour plating because of his large size. It would end up being mostly CGI on CGI and just look tacky.
Beyond that, I am absolutely sick of everything being "filler till we get to Unicron" in transfandom. So far, IDW comics is the only continuity where every sign doesn't point to Unicron (and you can tell they want to do it). He's the crapiest plot device because he just isn't a threat anymore because he's never succeeded in nearly 25 years. Avoid Unicron at all costs imo.
I am not a fan of the rest of Transformerdom so I could care less about Unicron becoming too cliche. Unicron is only Unicron to me in the original movie and 3rd season of the cartoon.
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If they do, the movies are stupid and I'll stop liking them.
The allspark is such an important gimmick or MacGuffin in the movie that I'm sure that it'll make a comeback.
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And? So were all his original songs =-o
Dare and the The Touch were incredibly 80s but they were also very catchy and good pump up songs (for a film for kids even) and probably his best work in a career of otherwise AOC crap.
I was actually going to post this as an example of what they could have done for the movie themesong but didn't remember Mute Math's name at the time. It's too bad they never used this. They'd probably need to get the lyrics rights from LION in the first place.
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This trend was also done in Beast Wars. By and far the best Transformer cartoons to date.
While Beast Wars was written by Larry Ditillo, a great writer and whom I was a fan of through some other series, BW is probably the darkest spot in Transformer history for me and that singularily made me stop liking the series and actually grow up and stop buying toys in my early teens. Absolutely disgusting and terrible series with some terrible design aesthetics. Good writing, good storytelling, but when the CG and the actual character designs are that ugly, no thanks. I prefer my Transformers more with the Japanese fueled animation aesthetics from the 80s. Beast Wars and anything else by Mainframe is just something I'd want to gougue my eyes out at before watching ever again.
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How many transformers didn't have mouthes in the originals? probably less than a third.
That's perfectly fine...but Optimus Prime did not need a mouth. That's my main issue with that. It looks absolutely ridiculous. I wish he spent the whole movie in battle mode with the mouth shield. Lorenzo DiBonaventure almost got his wish that Prime would have a mouth through the entire film before some smarter people told him that the iconic character needed the mouthshield, at least temporarily.
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Are you serious? Voices?
...
I'd hate to see the original Starscream with Chris Latta dead. Or Jazz with not Scatman Crothers to voice him.
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Peter Cullen was decent but could you seriously tell the difference between the vocal performances of any of the other robots? They could have all been voiced by the same mundane voice actor. I want the color, flourish, and variety that the older series had. Voice acting talent has really gone down the drain since the boom in the 70s and 80s. Compare movie Jazz with cartoon Jazz...heck he could even sound like Blaster and it'd be a little more interesting. Wouldn't a Scatman Crother's like voice be good for movie Jazz instead? And there are a lot of good Chris Latta sounding voice actors - like the ones who have done Cobra Commander in recent series like Sigma Six. The new movie can't even compare to the talent on the old one...Orson Welles, Casey Kasem, Robert Stack, Leonard Nimoy, John Moschitta Jr., Eric Idle (Monty Python), Frank Welker, Scatman Crothers, Victor Caroli, Peter Cullen, Lionel Stander, etc. A lot of great people from the voice acting industry's golden age combined with a lot of talent from classic hollywood of 50s...to superstars.
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And they looked great. Alien and different, I loved it.
Alien and organic yes. And yes it made sense for the film...but man. EVERY AUTOBOT IS A GM? Terrible vehicle modes and I'd expect some of the hero bots to at least have decent faces...Starscream could use some better proportions. His robot mode is a triangle with arms and legs. Back to the GM point, that's probably my biggest overall beef with the movie. I wish GM would hurry up and finally go bankrupt. I am also a fan of cars and I especially detest modern GM designs as everything they make is garbage. You have the chance to have a such a beautiful movie...how wonderful it would have been to have some European and Japanese cars, classic American muscle, etc. Bumblebee couldn't be a Beetle? I do admit I was a Camero fan and love that it's coming back but everything else GM is crap. I especially hated Optimus as a big rig with Flames and Bling...
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In relation to the cartoon, or the comic? Either way, very different. It's a differing continuity. Sorta like Armada, or RiD (well before Takara became ****tards and tried to shoehorn them all together). Same name, some similar ideas, but it's meant to be different. That's why it's enjoyable.
RiD was a Takara only vehicle that Hasbro picked up. Armada was driven by Hasbro and their design house...Armada was quite an ugly series...as is Animated. Basically I have a natural bias against any Hasbro driven series with mostly American design. It's simply not an aesthetic I enjoy. That probably explains why I don't like the movie either...you can apply that to Animated as well. That design style works for Justice League and Dexter's Lab but not Transformers (for me at least). I like anime mechanical aesthetics.
I agree that the 80s movie blows away the 2007 movie. Much more variety in art, in voice acting, in music. It was more of a movie in line with HEAVY METAL in all the strange worlds and situations you saw with the rocking hairmetal soundtrack. But yes, these movies are for different audiences.
I guess what it really comes down to is the 1986 movie was during my childhood, when I had the toys, when I watched the show... etc. I just didn't like how megatron was a jaggedy thing that turned into a jet-like thing and wasn't even introduced until into the second half.
It was during my childhood too. I was raised on transformers essentially from birth. And I love the movie and still watch it from time to time. But to not come to terms with how brutal it is like saying that City of Steel was the best episode of a cartoon ever.
While I agree that the lack of screen time for all the transformers in the movie was a problem, but they will surely rectify this with the next one.
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Originally Posted by Scrambler
Character wise, for me it's the Quintessons, Junkions, Blurr, etc. IMO much better than the 'secondary' characters in 07.
Btw, Unicron didn't kill any 'main' characters, but he did his fair share of 'evil killing' lol.
Blurr: Does stuff fast.... not much else
Quintessons: Great idea, but after Five Faces of Darkness, it was pointless.
Wreck-Gar: Talks TV. And?
What evil killing? He eats a planet of no names and smashes a tower.
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Originally Posted by Hack&Lube
I am not a fan of the rest of Transformerdom so I could care less about Unicron becoming too cliche. Unicron is only Unicron to me in the original movie and 3rd season of the cartoon.
And in that continuity he was a lab experiment as opposed to a chaos god.
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Originally Posted by Hack&Lube
The allspark is such an important gimmick or MacGuffin in the movie that I'm sure that it'll make a comeback.
I think they will invoke it's memory (the shard Prime grabs at the end) but if it actually comes back in full... bad news is bad.
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Originally Posted by Hack&Lube
Dare and the The Touch were incredibly 80s but they were also very catchy and good pump up songs (for a film for kids even) and probably his best work in a career of otherwise AOC crap.
So camp. So awesome. =D
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Originally Posted by Hack&Lube
I was actually going to post this as an example of what they could have done for the movie themesong but didn't remember Mute Math's name at the time. It's too bad they never used this. They'd probably need to get the lyrics rights from LION in the first place.
They're not covering LION's movie theme. They're covering the original 1st season theme.
While Beast Wars was written by Larry Ditillo, a great writer and whom I was a fan of through some other series, BW is probably the darkest spot in Transformer history for me and that singularily made me stop liking the series and actually grow up and stop buying toys in my early teens. Absolutely disgusting and terrible series with some terrible design aesthetics. Good writing, good storytelling, but when the CG and the actual character designs are that ugly, no thanks. I prefer my Transformers more with the Japanese fueled animation aesthetics from the 80s. Beast Wars and anything else by Mainframe is just something I'd want to gougue my eyes out at before watching ever again.
That's a difference of opinion then.
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Originally Posted by Hack&Lube
That's perfectly fine...but Optimus Prime did not need a mouth. That's my main issue with that. It looks absolutely ridiculous. I wish he spent the whole movie in battle mode with the mouth shield. Lorenzo DiBonaventure almost got his wish that Prime would have a mouth through the entire film before some smarter people told him that the iconic character needed the mouthshield, at least temporarily.
He didn't not need a mouth either. It's a moot arguement.
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Originally Posted by Hack&Lube
Peter Cullen was decent but could you seriously tell the difference between the vocal performances of any of the other robots? They could have all been voiced by the same mundane voice actor. I want the color, flourish, and variety that the older series had. Voice acting talent has really gone down the drain since the boom in the 70s and 80s. Compare movie Jazz with cartoon Jazz...heck he could even sound like Blaster and it'd be a little more interesting. Wouldn't a Scatman Crother's like voice be good for movie Jazz instead? And there are a lot of good Chris Latta sounding voice actors - like the ones who have done Cobra Commander in recent series like Sigma Six. The new movie can't even compare to the talent on the old one...Orson Welles, Casey Kasem, Robert Stack, Leonard Nimoy, John Moschitta Jr., Eric Idle (Monty Python), Frank Welker, Scatman Crothers, Victor Caroli, Peter Cullen, Lionel Stander, etc. A lot of great people from the voice acting industry's golden age combined with a lot of talent from classic hollywood of 50s...to superstars.
I could tell the difference between voices quite easily actually. I loved Ratchet and Iron Hide's voice. Yes Jazz was very basic, but it fit the needs for the characters.
No one, and I mean no one, does Chris Latta like Chris Latta. I have never heard a voice mimicking his high pitched squeal that sounds even half decent.
But yes, on the whole 80 Transformers had some AMAZING voice actors. As did Beastwars. In more recent times it just hasn't sounded as good.
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Originally Posted by Hack&Lube
Bumblebee couldn't be a Beetle? I do admit I was a Camero fan and love that it's coming back but everything else GM is crap. I especially hated Optimus as a big rig with Flames and Bling...
Volkswagen refused to give the rights for any of their vehicle because they refuse to be associated with violence. Same with all German car makers. So yes, it couldn't be a Beetle.
The flames were meh. I don't care that much either way.
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Originally Posted by Hack&Lube
I agree that the 80s movie blows away the 2007 movie. Much more variety in art, in voice acting, in music. It was more of a movie in line with HEAVY METAL in all the strange worlds and situations you saw with the rocking hairmetal soundtrack. But yes, these movies are for different audiences.
Ofcourse it had better art.. it was animated. The music I love as stated. And yes, the voice acting was better, but really it had to be.
It was during my childhood too. I was raised on transformers essentially from birth. And I love the movie and still watch it from time to time. But to not come to terms with how brutal it is like saying that City of Steel was the best episode of a cartoon ever.
And in that continuity he was a lab experiment as opposed to a chaos god.
Are you saying the 80s movie is brutal? We'll never be on the same page then. And yes, City of Steel was probably one of the top 10 worst episodes of the original cartoon.
As far as Unicron being a "lab experiment", sorry but Call of the Primitives is my singular favorite episode of the series, and ranks up there with the 1986 movie so I accept that origin as best. There's nothing wrong with Unicron being created near the centre of the universe by Primacron...intended to devour the universe so that Primacron could have a blank slate to redesign the universe with. It's more on the rational side of things like Galactus (another devourer or worlds) whose purpose is to maintain balance in the universe.
The whole Primus and Unicron as gods thing (And Primus hiding in an asteroid which becomes Cybertron) was the stupider story IMHO and I never bought it, along with most of the comic series which is pretty bad (Optimus Prime dies because of a videogame).
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They're not covering LION's movie theme. They're covering the original 1st season theme.
I guess I was thinking of that other band then, that did a revamped theme for the new movie that included the LION lyrics. Wasn't Mute Math then.
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He didn't not need a mouth either. It's a moot arguement.
Nothing is moot or definitive in arguments when you are debating design aesthetics. It's all a matter of taste and his iconic character has always had a faceshield. Again, because of my personal tastes, I'm not even going to consider BW.
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I could tell the difference between voices quite easily actually. I loved Ratchet and Iron Hide's voice. Yes Jazz was very basic, but it fit the needs for the characters.
No one, and I mean no one, does Chris Latta like Chris Latta. I have never heard a voice mimicking his high pitched squeal that sounds even half decent.
But yes, on the whole 80 Transformers had some AMAZING voice actors. As did Beastwars. In more recent times it just hasn't sounded as good.
Overall though, I felt they were quite generic, perhaps also because of the limited screen time to each. None of them has the color or variation in voice and personality. They could all have come from the same mold outside of Prime and Bumblebee.
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Volkswagen refused to give the rights for any of their vehicle because they refuse to be associated with violence. Same with all German car makers. So yes, it couldn't be a Beetle.
The flames were meh. I don't care that much either way.
Ofcourse it had better art.. it was animated. The music I love as stated. And yes, the voice acting was better, but really it had to be.
No, that is just for toylines like the Alternators/Binaltech. Hasbro went with all GM because GM's marketing department gave them the biggest bag of money for exclusive rights. I hate that with shows these days...everything is about who gives you the most money. It's like the new Knight Rider show. Everything is a Ford. It just feels wrong (and again, I think all the vehicles are ugly and nothing I would want).
For me, it's all that I care about. Transformers or any cool robot shows or shows about fast cars and all those things are all about style for me over substance. I like art, I like architecture, I like design, I like music. Those are most important to me.
Are you saying the 80s movie is brutal? We'll never be on the same page then. And yes, City of Steel was probably one of the top 10 worst episodes of the original cartoon.
Yes it was. =|
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Originally Posted by Hack&Lube
As far as Unicron being a "lab experiment", sorry but Call of the Primitives is my singular favorite episode of the series, and ranks up there with the 1986 movie so I accept that origin as best. There's nothing wrong with Unicron being created near the centre of the universe by Primacron...intended to devour the universe so that Primacron could have a blank slate to redesign the universe with. It's more on the rational side of things like Galactus (another devourer or worlds) whose purpose is to maintain balance in the universe.
He was a lab experiment that got beat by something shiny. The problem with call of the Primitives is the fact it just gets thrown in as an after thought. The fact the new monster gets beat by Grimlock falling on a plug just makes it even worse.
The origin was terrible. You're the only person who I have ever seen try to defend it. Hell, you're one of the few people I've ever seen defend the cartoon at all.
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Originally Posted by Hack&Lube
The whole Primus and Unicron as gods thing (And Primus hiding in an asteroid which becomes Cybertron) was the stupider story IMHO and I never bought it, along with most of the comic series which is pretty bad (Optimus Prime dies because of a videogame).
No one actually likes Budianski's comic writing. The only reason he got the job is because he wrote all the character BIOs. So yeah the Video game thing was terribad. How ever all the UK only stuff written by Simon Furman and the US stuff written by him is all very VERY good. There's a reason he's still writing the material while everyone else has ****ed off. Primus hiding in the Asteroid makes perfect sense. He needed a physical body and he needed to hide and rebuild. It offers better stories than what the cartoon offered because of it.
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Originally Posted by Hack&Lube
Nothing is moot or definitive in arguments when you are debating design aesthetics. It's all a matter of taste and his iconic character has always had a faceshield. Again, because of my personal tastes, I'm not even going to consider BW.
"I say this is the way it is and I am not going to consider the things that go against my argument."
Yeaaaaah-- no. Doesn't work that way. You want to play this game the whole Fandom is open. Including the new Prime. So no, he hasn't ALWAYS had a face shield.
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Originally Posted by Hack&Lube
No, that is just for toylines like the Alternators/Binaltech.
If they say no to being used with toys as guns, do you think they're gonna be okay with their cars actively shooting things?
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Originally Posted by Hack&Lube
For me, it's all that I care about. Transformers or any cool robot shows or shows about fast cars and all those things are all about style for me over substance. I like art, I like architecture, I like design, I like music. Those are most important to me.
He was a lab experiment that got beat by something shiny. The problem with call of the Primitives is the fact it just gets thrown in as an after thought. The fact the new monster gets beat by Grimlock falling on a plug just makes it even worse.
The origin was terrible. You're the only person who I have ever seen try to defend it. Hell, you're one of the few people I've ever seen defend the cartoon at all.
No one actually likes Budianski's comic writing. The only reason he got the job is because he wrote all the character BIOs. So yeah the Video game thing was terribad. How ever all the UK only stuff written by Simon Furman and the US stuff written by him is all very VERY good. There's a reason he's still writing the material while everyone else has ****ed off. Primus hiding in the Asteroid makes perfect sense. He needed a physical body and he needed to hide and rebuild. It offers better stories than what the cartoon offered because of it.
I have to admit that I also much prefer the cartoon origin of Unicron to the comic book one. The idea of him being a "god" or whatever that means is pretty silly to me. Unicron devours robotic worlds and adds the material of those worlds to himself. It makes sense that he stated out very small at one point and under the control of another.
Not only that, the comics tied the origin of the transformers into that same primus origin, also kind of silly in my opinion. The slave rebellion against quintessons was a much cooler and more creative origin IMO.
Unicron will definitely not be in the movie. There was talk of a transforming aircraft carrier but they scrapped that idea since it would cost way too much money and computer processing time to do that. However, the consctructicons will most likely make an appearance. I can't wait to see how that will look, having the merge into one giant robot. Michael Bay also wanted Grimlock in the movie but there is no logical way to introduce a dinosaur into the movie.
For a good laugh check out this clip. This guy did his own voice-over and it is hilarious. Warning, there is some foul language in the clip.
I have to admit that I also much prefer the cartoon origin of Unicron to the comic book one. The idea of him being a "god" or whatever that means is pretty silly to me. Unicron devours robotic worlds and adds the material of those worlds to himself. It makes sense that he stated out very small at one point and under the control of another.
Not only that, the comics tied the origin of the transformers into that same primus origin, also kind of silly in my opinion. The slave rebellion against quintessons was a much cooler and more creative origin IMO.
He doesn't eat robotic Worlds. He eats Worlds to survive. He was at no point 'small'. He was built that size by a giant monkey.
In the comics he comes to this plane chasing Primus and once he gets into this realm, he finds he needs a physical body like Primus. So they both jump into giant Space Rocks, not knowing what they are, trapping themselves for eternity thus needed to find a new way to exist. In Unicron's case he became a giant robot. In Primus' sake he became a planet that gave rise to a race of sentient beings to do battle against Unicron, and gave them his pure essence as their torch and final weapon. Primus originally creates 13 original transformers. I know they haven't named all of them BUT some of them are Liege Maximo, The Fallen, Alpha Trion in DW continuity. The Fallen falls to Unicron and Liege Maximo helps start what is the beginning of the Decepticons. Originally Autobots and Decepticons reproduce together but eventually it leads to war since they were created for different purposes (Decepticons to seek out and Destroy Unicron, the Autobots to defend Primus). Decepticons are conquerers and want to fight and the Autobots are more concerned with saving themselves and Cybertron by nature.
The Quintesson origin is weak. "K...k...so...like they're two types of robots. And like.... they'd hit them with there magic-o whip thingy and then chuck them in the soup and pull out a robot. And... like... so... they keep doing this... and then the two sides... like rebel and then.... fight eachother... and yeah... and then some where, along the way, the Matrix some how is made... cause Primus doesn't exist... but the matrix totally appears and is the only thing that can stop him... and then it's forgotten until the movie. Yeah... makes sense."
Made by Space Squid who got lucky by gettng a plot device, or the final defense against a chaos entity bent on destruction. Hmmmmmmmmmm, which is cooler.
Most Transformer fans I knew when I used to talk about these things on newsgroups like 10 years ago all preferred the cartoon origins to the comic ones. It seems that way on CP too oddly enough. I don't want the Transformers origins to be by some cosmic deities fighting each other. That's just ridiculous. That also gives them too much importance. That they were consumer and military robots enslaved to perform work... that gained sentience to rebel against their masters and creators...eventually turning on each other is so much better science fiction. They are just another race out there in a universe where there strangely happens to be a lot of machine life - explained perhaps by Primacron whose own origins are good to remain murky because the best sci-fi never explains the full origins of things and leaves you with mystery.
Sorry, but sci-fi that ends up with you finding some sort of god(s) who creates some pseudo-religious pantheon is often quite terrible and too much based on our human mythologies instead of being unique or creative or well-written.
Call of the Primitives was very well written and the best animated episode in the cartoon. I guess you missed the entire point of the episode that intelligence does not always beat instinct. The most intelligent creature in the universe (who was eccentric anyway) was so smart, he didn't realize the benefits of the so-called "dumb, animalistic" Transformers who functioned on much baser instintual programming. Also, Matrix was either another one of Primacron's creations or the remant of his assistant who fled after Unicron destroyed his planet and his original robotic body (the Matrix leaving from it). It shows that even if you are on such an epic scale, that you are dealing with someone who has created alot of the technology in the ancient universe...that he too makes mistakes and you can all be humorous and have a laugh. Transformers is for kids, you can't take it too seriously. A lot of the new stuff, the DW stuff, etc. that tries to write for a grown-up TF audience makes it much too serious and complicated...forget all the charm and humor.
Most Transformer fans I knew when I used to talk about these things on newsgroups like 10 years ago all preferred the cartoon origins to the comic ones. It seems that way on CP too oddly enough. I don't want the Transformers origins to be by some cosmic deities fighting each other. That's just ridiculous. That also gives them too much importance. That they were consumer and military robots enslaved to perform work... that gained sentience to rebel against their masters and creators...eventually turning on each other is so much better science fiction. They are just another race out there in a universe where there strangely happens to be a lot of machine life - explained perhaps by Primacron whose own origins are good to remain murky because the best sci-fi never explains the full origins of things and leaves you with mystery.
Then you don't know much about the Fandom. Almost everyone hates the original cartoon these days. Infact, I'm usually one of the people defending it for what it is. And what it is is not as great and amazing as you remember it. And no, people who like that origin are in the strict minority. The Comic origin is viewed as the official origin by most.
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Originally Posted by Hack&Lube
Sorry, but sci-fi that ends up with you finding some sort of god(s) who creates some pseudo-religious pantheon is often quite terrible and too much based on our human mythologies instead of being unique or creative or well-written.
There was nothing original about the cartoon.. at all. Well unless you consider the plot holes original. Like the Constructicons building Megatron, who was the one who turned them evil before he built them on Earth. The Primus origin was fairly original and I can't think of any other fiction where a god took over a planet and made a race to defend against another god.
How ever I can think of many instances where robots rebelled against their masters.
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Originally Posted by Hack&Lube
Call of the Primitives was very well written and the best animated episode in the cartoon. I guess you missed the entire point of the episode that intelligence does not always beat instinct. The most intelligent creature in the universe (who was eccentric anyway) was so smart, he didn't realize the benefits of the so-called "dumb, animalistic" Transformers who functioned on much baser instintual programming. Also, Matrix was either another one of Primacron's creations or the embodiment of his assistant. It shows that even if you are on such an epic scale, that you are dealing with someone who has created alot of the technology in the ancient universe...that he too makes mistakes and you can all be humorous and have a laugh. Transformers is for kids, you can't take it too seriously. A lot of the new stuff, the DW stuff, etc. that tries to write for a grown-up TF audience makes it much too serious and complicated...forget all the charm and humor.
The Call of the Primitives was shoddy writing for a kids cartoon. You're right. This is why people loved Beastwars, the comics, Batman: TAS. Because they were for kids but were actually enjoyable 10/20 years later when those kids are adults.
Most people who are or were transformers fan only having a passing remembrance of the old cartoon and thus only recall the good times from when they were kids, and not how bad it is. The original Transformers cartoon has aged most poorly compared to a lot of cartoons that came out at the same time. I love it, and do watch it on occasion, but when I watch something else from the 80s like Robotech, it becomes apparent that all I was watching was a 30 minute commercial when I watched Transformers.
Then you don't know much about the Fandom. Almost everyone hates the original cartoon these days. Infact, I'm usually one of the people defending it for what it is. And what it is is not as great and amazing as you remember it. And no, people who like that origin are in the strict minority. The Comic origin is viewed as the official origin by most.
Well I'm glad I don't know much or don't follow the fandom. Even then, it was full of idiots who just towed the line or bought everything new that came out regardless of quality.
It's just a kids show with good childhood memories and nostalgia as you said. I'd like for that nostalgia to remain intact and I'll stick with that. None of the newer stuff ever interested me though I am aware and knowledgable about it (sadly). Perhaps that's why the view has changed, none of the new comics which expanded the origins had come out back then.
I think the whole idea of cartoons that must be tailored that adults can also enjoy is somewhat of a sham. If you are going to create a cartoon that is adult oriented with a strong story. Something like Macross (Robotech was terrible, great music though) has a much more plausible reality than a show that is nominally about a bunch of Transforming characters that suspiciously look like they are still acting out a toy commercial despite better writing...or a guy running around in a mask and cape fighting bizarre gimmick criminals, none of which can aim a gun.
You can always do both and do a great job if you just remember to have humor and fun (BTAS did for awhile). Don't take it too seriously. That's why the 2007 movie was good and audiences liked it. Plausibility, plenty of humor spirit, and it was just fun and looked nice.
Well I'm glad I don't know much or don't follow the fandom. Even then, it was full of idiots who just towed the line or bought everything new that came out regardless of quality.
It's just a kids show with good childhood memories and nostalgia as you said. I'd like for that nostalgia to remain intact and I'll stick with that. None of the newer stuff ever interested me though I am aware and knowledgable about it (sadly). Perhaps that's why the view has changed, none of the new comics which expanded the origins had come out back then.
For pure nostalgia, it's amazing. I watch it when I want to feel like a little kid again, and it usually succeeds. I really only got into Beastwars a few years ago and, like you, have no interest in the newer cartoons.
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Originally Posted by Hack&Lube
I think the whole idea of cartoons that must be tailored that adults can also enjoy is somewhat of a sham. If you are going to create a cartoon that is adult oriented with a strong story. Something like Macross (Robotech was terrible, great music though) has a much more plausible reality than a show that is nominally about a bunch of Transforming characters that suspiciously look like they are still acting out a toy commercial despite better writing...or a guy running around in a mask and cape fighting bizarre gimmick criminals, none of which can aim a gun.
The thing about Batman: TAS, was it was a very dark show. If you rewatch it, they did some pretty great things which make it still watchable. Though judging how you described it, I get the feeling you just don't like Batman. There's a reason Batman: TAS won an emmy, and it wasn't for animation. It was for writing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hack&Lube
You can always do both and do a great job if you just remember to have humor and fun. Don't take it too seriously. That's why the 2007 movie was good and audiences liked it. Plausibility, plenty of humor spirit, and it was just fun and looked nice.
I agree. But the original series didn't just not take its self seriously. It would literally forget what happened the previous episode.
Wow..arguements over transformers...you guys ever have GFs? Or go to the bar?
Man, what a creep the internet exposes me for.
Ultimately, I think that what these nerdy childhood discussions that pop up every now and then do is simply expose just how much the things you first experience as a kid stay with you and how everybody seems to defend those things from their particular childhood as best and those of other people's childhoods as wrong.
