Tory ads coming to a gas station near you

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by octothorp

On a slightly different topic, I absolutely cannot stand the Tories' perpetual election campaign approach. It's bad enough that about half of our nightly news is filled with meaningless political rhetoric (not just from the conservatives but from all sides). If you want to call an election, go ahead. But until then, get on with the business of running the country, rather than wasting time and resources on delivering hypothetical arguments to the public.

^^^^

It should be illegal to engage in political advertising (such as this campaign, but I don't want to single out just the the Conservatives) unless it's conducted within an actual election. All political advertising ought to be banned except between the time the writ is dropped and the day of the vote.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by octothorp

On a slightly different topic, I absolutely cannot stand the Tories' perpetual election campaign approach. It's bad enough that about half of our nightly news is filled with meaningless political rhetoric (not just from the conservatives but from all sides). If you want to call an election, go ahead. But until then, get on with the business of running the country, rather than wasting time and resources on delivering hypothetical arguments to the public.

It is a minority goverment....pros and cons to everything!

[old-fart]

Originally Posted by octothorp

On a slightly different topic, I absolutely cannot stand the Tories' perpetual election campaign approach. It's bad enough that about half of our nightly news is filled with meaningless political rhetoric (not just from the conservatives but from all sides). If you want to call an election, go ahead. But until then, get on with the business of running the country, rather than wasting time and resources on delivering hypothetical arguments to the public.

The Conservatives can't call an election until next year as they brought in the law for fixed election dates. The only way we have an election before then is if the opposition parties get together to defeat the government on a confidence motion, which the Liberals have been threatening to do since they elected Dion 18 months ago. Don't you remember his acceptance speech when he said "we have to get back to power as soon as possible"?

Of course, even though the Liberals have been threatening to do so, and have been talking about made up scandal after made up scandal as well as telling anyone who will listen how evil Harper and the Conservatives are, they have been unwilling to actually cause an election. Why is that I wonder? If the Conservatives are so bad, so evil, so harmful to the country... why let them continue to govern?

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by old-fart

The Conservatives can't call an election until next year as they brought in the law for fixed election dates. The only way we have an election before then is if the opposition parties get together to defeat the government on a confidence motion, which the Liberals have been threatening to do since they elected Dion 18 months ago. Don't you remember his acceptance speech when he said "we have to get back to power as soon as possible"?

Of course, even though the Liberals have been threatening to do so, and have been talking about made up scandal after made up scandal as well as telling anyone who will listen how evil Harper and the Conservatives are, they have been unwilling to actually cause an election. Why is that I wonder? If the Conservatives are so bad, so evil, so harmful to the country... why let them continue to govern?

I think you missed roughly 100% of my point. I'd be just as critical of this regardless of whether it was the Tories, Grits, Greens or NDP putting forth these ads. I'm not saying there should be an election. Infact, I'd prefer it if there wasn't for as long as possible, and I don't care who ends up forcing it. But until there's an election out there, I don't want to see any political ads by anyone. What good does it do me as a consumer or participant in the political process to see these ads? It's not like I can go and vote for or against Dion tomorrow. It's not as though I can change my buying habits based on the Conservatives' characterisation of Dion.

[old-fart]

Originally Posted by octothorp

I think you missed roughly 100% of my point. I'd be just as critical of this regardless of whether it was the Tories, Grits, Greens or NDP putting forth these ads. I'm not saying there should be an election. Infact, I'd prefer it if there wasn't for as long as possible, and I don't care who ends up forcing it. But until there's an election out there, I don't want to see any political ads by anyone. What good does it do me as a consumer or participant in the political process to see these ads? It's not like I can go and vote for or against Dion tomorrow. It's not as though I can change my buying habits based on the Conservatives' characterisation of Dion.

Apologies if I missed the point - I was responding to the "force an election" part not necessarily the "sick of the ads" part.

Anyway, I'd still disagree (it is Monday and I haven't had enough coffee ). Voter turnout in this country is, frankly put, crap. Post election, every election, I'm sickened at the lack of will for people to exercise their very basic right to vote. People, it would seem, don't care about politics which means they don't care about who governs our lives; makes decisions that affect everything we do / can do. Perhaps a communist state without any elections is what people would prefer. Personally, no thank you.

Anything that raises the level of awareness of the political climate and gets people out to vote and/or take part in the process is a good thing. I'm not saying these ads will or won't, but something has to be done to get us (collectively "us") to care enough to get off our asses and vote!

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by old-fart

Anything that raises the level of awareness of the political climate and gets people out to vote and/or take part in the process is a good thing. I'm not saying these ads will or won't, but something has to be done to get us (collectively "us") to care enough to get off our asses and vote!

I agree with this point, but I'm not sure attack ads, especially outside of an election, will do that.

If anything, I wonder if the perpetual electioneering that goes on - municipal, provincial, federal, not to mention the coverage American election get - may tend to numb people to the political process. And election style ads outside of the election period would make that effect even worse.

I agree with your sentiments about voter apathy. In my own case, I have voted in every election I have been eligible for, but then the last few elections I haven't been happy with the options, and it feels like voting for the least harm as opposed to the most good.

But that is waaayyy off topic.

[EddyBeers]

Well typical of Harper, he is not governing and wasting my tax dollars on this junket by using government staff to pass out the brochures in Ottawa. But I am used to that as an Albertan I guess

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

^^^^

It should be illegal to engage in political advertising (such as this campaign, but I don't want to single out just the the Conservatives) unless it's conducted within an actual election. All political advertising ought to be banned except between the time the writ is dropped and the day of the vote.

I disagree. The populace is apathetic as it is and I think if these issues are kept in the forefront of peoples minds they may be more willing to get involved.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by old-fart

Apologies if I missed the point - I was responding to the "force an election" part not necessarily the "sick of the ads" part.

Anyway, I'd still disagree (it is Monday and I haven't had enough coffee ). Voter turnout in this country is, frankly put, crap. Post election, every election, I'm sickened at the lack of will for people to exercise their very basic right to vote. People, it would seem, don't care about politics which means they don't care about who governs our lives; makes decisions that affect everything we do / can do. Perhaps a communist state without any elections is what people would prefer. Personally, no thank you.

Anything that raises the level of awareness of the political climate and gets people out to vote and/or take part in the process is a good thing. I'm not saying these ads will or won't, but something has to be done to get us (collectively "us") to care enough to get off our asses and vote!

(No worries, I didn't mean to jump on you with the missing the point bit.)

As for the rest of your email, that is an interesting point. Now I'm really curious about whether non-election political advertising actually can boost voter turn out during the election. I can see it going both ways: it might have a positive effect on apathetic non-voters, but I can also see it as having a negative effect on cynic non-voters, who are already fed up with what they see as endless rhetoric and posturing. I think it's important to raise the awareness of the political climate in a positive way, as opposed to just putting more ads out there earlier. Otherwise, you're just turning up the volume on a station that a lot of these people have already tuned out, and possibly causing more people to tune it out. A genuine demonstration of bipartisanship (again, something that all of our political parties are bad at), for example, would probably convert more non-voters to voters than any gas station ad or impressive website.

edit: okay, I see bobblehead pretty much already stated all of my thoughts on this.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by octothorp

...but I can also see it as having a negative effect on cynic non-voters, who are already fed up with what they see as endless rhetoric and posturing.

And that gets back to a point I made earlier. Rather than doing something positive and promoting it, the Conservatives are doing the exact same thing that the Liberals did so well for years - attack the other parties for being "wrong".

Okay, so under the Liberals the Liberal supporters were happy laughing it up when the Liberals poked fun at Preston Manning or Stockwell Day. Just as the Conservative supporters are happy laughing it up when the Conservatives take a bite out of Dion (like the repeated mockery of his poor english).

These ads here (A) get a guffaw from the people that wouldn't think of voting anything other than Conservative, (B) get Joe Blow who doesn't think about politics one iota and has no idea about the complexity of the issue (carbon tax vs cap/trade) to dislike Dion.

I would think such a smear campaign would be more likely to turn people OFF of politics than turn them ON to politics.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

And that gets back to a point I made earlier. Rather than doing something positive and promoting it, the Conservatives are doing the exact same thing that the Liberals did so well for years - attack the other parties for being "wrong".

Okay, so under the Liberals the Liberal supporters were happy laughing it up when the Liberals poked fun at Preston Manning or Stockwell Day. Just as the Conservative supporters are happy laughing it up when the Conservatives take a bite out of Dion (like the repeated mockery of his poor english).

These ads here (A) get a guffaw from the people that wouldn't think of voting anything other than Conservative, (B) get Joe Blow who doesn't think about politics one iota and has no idea about the complexity of the issue (carbon tax vs cap/trade) to dislike Dion.

I would think such a smear campaign would be more likely to turn people OFF of politics than turn them ON to politics.

It's a minority government, it's one of the evils of our structure. The conservatives can't just sit back and let everyone find a chink in the armour then call an election 15 seconds later.

And yea its a smear campaign, but so is the carbon tax initiative. It's plan is to put a black hat on those evil conservatives who don't care about those damn ducks in northern Ab. Dion is here to save the planet from the mean oil companies and save the ducks while they are at it. Doing nothing to quell demand or promote alternatives. The liberals aren't incumbered with the need of being pragmatic, Kyoto proved that.

Harper is poor with the media but the one thing he knows how to do is ensure others cannot debate issues on others terms. He jumps out in front and manages issues well.

BTW what good is a green party? What if they ever won power then what? There are about a million issues to deal with and pretty much all their time and platform is on one of them.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

BTW what good is a green party? What if they ever won power then what? There are about a million issues to deal with and pretty much all their time and platform is on one of them.

First, the Green Party isn't about taking power at this point... it's about bringing new ideas to the table.

Secondly, the Green Party has a platform as comprehensive as any of the major parties. It is a myth to say that the environment is the only plank in their platform, though it is a common misconception.

Dion's carbon tax initiative can't be considered a smear campaign until he, at some point, releases his plan. And how you compare "putting forth a policy proposal" vs "mocking someones english" is beyond me. Categorizing both as "smear campaigns" puts them on equal footings, but IMO one is of more low class than the other.

[Caged Great]

This whole Tory ad campaign is just a smokescreen to divert attention away from the Maxime Bernier scandal. Mme. Coulaird (sp) is supposed to testify today at the inquiry.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

This whole Tory ad campaign is just a smokescreen to divert attention away from the Maxime Bernier scandal. Mme. Coulaird (sp) is supposed to testify today at the inquiry.

Yup, they wiped up those commercials in 1 week to use as a smoke screen. They didn't have them planned months ago at all.

[peter12]

Golly, I saw Warren Kinsella debating the carbon tax with Elizabeth May on Duffy the other day.

May was such a bad choice for Green Party leader. She's abrasive, naive, rude, and guilty of repetitive alarmism. I will not ever cast a vote for the Greens while her personality exists as leader.

[old-fart]

You are correct that May was a horrible choice for the Greens. She is abrasive and would get eaten alive in the debates. Right now she is basically irrelevant as she is not a sitting MP, nor is she likely to become one anytime soon.