Slow the ef down on your crotch rocket

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

I realize you have a superiority complex when it comes to being a biker.

Fact is, I do notice bikers when they cross my path. I do so, and I watch them carefully, because I expect that they are going to do something dumb. I'm not often disappointed.

Usually I'm just happy when they fly up an open lane well above the speed limit. At least when they are driving a straight line it is easier to avoid problems.

It's not a matter of a superiority complex dude, it's a matter of experience and training. When you ride a bike you realize how much drivers ignore you and just out of a sense of pride/community/whatever you want to call it, you notice other bikes, and that mentality makes it's way into your driving.

You say you notice that the majority of bikes are doing stupid things, and I can tell you that as someone who is a part of that community and as a result has a much greater exposure to it than you, that this is simply not the case, which means that you are either not noticing bikes as well as you claim/think, or that you are exagerating.

It's the same as saying all old peole are bad drivers.
Sure you'll notice when you see an old person do something stupid, but how often do old people pass you by and you never notice?
Sure a bike is a little harder to miss than noticing if it's an old lady or a middle age man driving that buick, and you might see them, but seeing and taking note of are entirely different things.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

What, when soemone is speeding dont show them the same courtesy as you would someone who isnt putting yours and other peoples lives in danger?

Get off your high horse, people who speed if they die its their own damn fault and no one elses. If someone is coming up highway 2 in a crotch rocket going 150+ do you really think I am going to show him the same courtesy as other drivers.

Him and is 12K bike vs me and my 40K SUV, if we both obey the rules of the road then no one gets hurt but I wont go out of my way to allow him to rip down the road.

Sure, that's fair, but I think what he was getting at (and me as well) were some of the comments about doing things like sweving in front of them.
And that's what your post about showing couresy came across as.
I realize/hope you probalby meant doing things like getting out of the fast lane quickly or slowing down to give the guy an opeing to merge or pass or something, not intentionally doing something dangerous like cutting the guy off, or slamming on your brakes.

Staying in the fast lane (if you're already there) and driving as you normally would is perfectly reasonable, but doing something to make an already dangerous situation worse, is in my mind worse than what the guy doing the stupid thing is doing (I've said the same in theads about speeding in cars as well).

So sure, don't speed up to pass quicker so the guy on the bike can get by and do 150, but on the same hand, don't put yourself and the biker into an even more dangerous situation by doing something dangerous yourself.

[llama64]

Bike licenses shouldn't be handed out to people under the age of 30. Problem solved.

18 year olds can barely drive 4 wheel cars and we let them drive around things that can hit 200km/h? Once they have kids, then they won't drive around like moronic idiots...

just sayin...

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by Boblobla

What about this a-hole that lives behind me that starts his goddamn diesel truck at 5 in the morning and lets it Idle for about 20mins while he gets ready for work? What about the noise pollution from all of the subs? There are far more cars that 'do whatever they want' than bikers.

A diesel truck idling at 5am is pretty loud. But it is no where near as loud as a Harley at full revs in first gear. It sounds like the world is coming to an end and scares the hell out of you. I do see vehichles driving fast in the city and on the highway. But never at blinding speeds like a motor bike.

[Boblobla]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

A diesel truck idling at 5am is pretty loud. But it is no where near as loud as a Harley at full revs in first gear. It sounds like the world is coming to an end and scares the hell out of you. I do see vehichles driving fast in the city and on the highway. But never at blinding speeds like a motor bike.

Huh? World coming to an end? I was just pointing out that bikes are not the only thing that makes noises at unfair hours. Sucks that it is loud but I bet there are far more cars passing your house making loud noises than there are bikes. Is it just because it is a bike that it pisses you off? If it happened every night I could understand you frustration, that is pretty rude.

Sure some bikers go fast but I have for sure been passed by people driving at least 200kph coming back from Banff. You know what I do when I see someone coming at me that fast, bike or car? I GTFO of the lane and let them blow by me.

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by Boblobla

Huh? World coming to an end? I was just pointing out that bikes are not the only thing that makes noises at unfair hours. Sucks that it is loud but I bet there are far more cars passing your house making loud noises than there are bikes. Is it just because it is a bike that it pisses you off? If it happened every night I could understand you frustration, that is pretty rude.

Sure some bikers go fast but I have for sure been passed by people driving at least 200kph coming back from Banff. You know what I do when I see someone coming at me that fast, bike or car? I GTFO of the lane and let them blow by me.

I live in a Close so most vehicles passing by are going about 30-40km an hour. A lot of diesel trucks come and go but they are usually just idleling on the way by. The Harleys are very loud especially when, like I stated before, they rev them as hard as they will go in a low gear. You must know what I'm talking about? Have you ever been to a mud bog or monster trucks in an enclosed building like the Saddle Dome? That is how loud it is. If my car was that loud, I guarantee I would be given a ticket.

[arsenal]

Originally Posted by llama64

Bike licenses shouldn't be handed out to people under the age of 30. Problem solved.

18 year olds can barely drive 4 wheel cars and we let them drive around things that can hit 200km/h? Once they have kids, then they won't drive around like moronic idiots...

just sayin...

No, we should adopt a more German type license system, where it costs around 1000 euro to get your licence if you are new driver.

Many schools have set up simplified courses for experienced drivers, which will cost you about €200 as opposed to the over €1,000 that a beginner would have to pay.

From these 2 sites:
http://www.howtogermany.com/pages/driving.html
http://trust7faq.wik.is/German_Drivers_license

Then people would appreciate the time and money it takes, and be more wary of driving like idiots and getting their licenses revoked.

[Boblobla]

Oh, I know how loud they are. It doesn't really bother me though, they are gone quickly. If there was someone outside my house reving one for a while at night I would want to end their life. Honestly, as far as noises, the one that gets me the most is loud stereos that rattle pictures at 3 in the AM. It could be the seedy condo complex nearby, or the fact that I hate hiphop but I have tons if those little rice rockets with their pop cans on the exhaust ripping around playing their rap music.

Kids these days. GET OFF MY LAWN.

I like bikes and as I said earlier I am going to be doing my training and getting my license at some time this summer. I want a hog so bad. Wow, that sounds terrible. I want a Harley so bad...

I just want to be able to rip to Banff with the g/f on the back of the bike for a day. I think that would be so much fun.

I would never buy a crotch rocket because I would be a smear on the asphalt in a week.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Boblobla

Oh, I know how loud they are. It doesn't really bother me though, they are gone quickly. If there was someone outside my house reving one for a while at night I would want to end their life. Honestly, as far as noises, the one that gets me the most is loud stereos that rattle pictures at 3 in the AM. It could be the seedy condo complex nearby, or the fact that I hate hiphop but I have tons if those little rice rockets with their pop cans on the exhaust ripping around playing their rap music.

Kids these days. GET OFF MY LAWN.

I like bikes and as I said earlier I am going to be doing my training and getting my license at some time this summer. I want a hog so bad. Wow, that sounds terrible. I want a Harley so bad...

I just want to be able to rip to Banff with the g/f on the back of the bike for a day. I think that would be so much fun.

I would never buy a crotch rocket because I would be a smear on the asphalt in a week.

Okay, just a little off topic, but why a Harley?

Why not just buy a Honda, put some really old worn out spark plugs in, detune the engine, losen half of the bolts and then tear up $10000 in hundred dollar bills?

At heart I'm a crusier guy, but I never understood the facination with paying twice as much for a bike that is half as reliable because Harely hasn't done an signifigant R&D work on their engines in the last 20-30 years.

[Boblobla]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Okay, just a little off topic, but why a Harley?

Because it is a Harley, it adds to the adventure if you are not sure you will make it where you are going :P

A buddy of mine has a yamahahog and I might look into getting one of those. It boils down to me wanting to be loud and obnoxious on the highway.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Wow, that is so far off base it isn't even funny.
Boblobla already mentioned it, but the VAST majority of bike accidents are caused by drivers not paying attention and hitting a guy on a bike.

Says who? Just curious where you are getting that from. I only have anecdotal evidence, but everyone that I know who has been in a bike accident it was there own stupid fault. Off-roading, illegal u-turn, speeding, and really speeding.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Burninator

Says who? Just curious where you are getting that from. I only have anecdotal evidence, but everyone that I know who has been in a bike accident it was there own stupid fault. Off-roading, illegal u-turn, speeding, and really speeding.

Everything I've ever read, including info I got when I was taking the motorcycle course, has been pretty clear that the majority of accidents for bikes are caused by other drivers. I don't have a link to anything so you'll just have to take me at my word. If you really want to see some data on this, just call any of the motorcycle schools in town as I'm sure they'll have it.

Add to that my annecdotal evidence based on a pretty wide range of bikers (you tend to meet a lot when you're one yourself) indicates the same. Is that annecdotal evidence worth anything? No more or less than yours.

[lifer]

As for the argument about it usually being a cars fault when bikes get in an accident, here is what I think is a reasonable explanation.
It's likely that many accidents are stictly caused by recklessness on the part of the driver, many others are probably strictly the bikers fault; I expect that most accidents are both people's fault. Drivers are looking for cars, and expecting other vehicles to behave like cars and trucks. Many bikers do not behave like cars and trucks, so they'll fill a gap in traffic that may have been open a moment before, and would still be open, if not for a bike manouvering faster than a different vehicle would. Example, driving south on crowchild, just after you pass the downtown exits and another lane opens up to the left. A car in the middle lane wants to pull into the left lane to pass the car in front of him, so the driver shoulder checks and sees that the lane is open. he starts to switch lanes. Unfortunatley, behind the truck that is behind the car is a biker. The biker shoots into the left lane to pass everybody, painfully unaware that 80 feet ahead of him another car in entering that lane. The biker moves up and bam, the car and the bike are occupying the same spot at the same time. Who's fault is this? The car could have shoulder checked again, but the biker could have accelerated more carefully.
I've had a few instances like this (I drive a car), I've never hit a motor biker, never even really been close, but if I didn't double shoulder check I could have killed the guy.
All bikers are likely aware of the fact that many drivers don't pay enough attention to them, and aren't watching closely enough...all the more reason for the bikers to be very careful. Most seem to get it, a large enough proportion to be very noticeable and problematic don't seem to.

You know what they say, they elephant doesn't have to look out for a squirrel...
Careful bikers = living bikers.


edit: I just wanted to add this about not showing respect on the road to bikers who are acting like idiots.
Get out of their way. You are not teaching them a lesson, you are making them angry and increasing the odds of them making stupider decisions. Let the guy go past you and enjoy your day, he'll be gone and you'll be happy. Same goes for cars, people are going to drive how they want. Unless you're a police officer, your goal when driving should be to get where you're going while being as minor of an inconvenience to other drivers as possible.

[Boblobla]

Originally Posted by Burninator

Says who? Just curious where you are getting that from. I only have anecdotal evidence, but everyone that I know who has been in a bike accident it was there own stupid fault. Off-roading, illegal u-turn, speeding, and really speeding.

I went digging and most of the info I can find is for personal injury lawyers so the data is obviously a little biased. I know I have heard it on the news and I will try to find some reasonable data to back it up.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Everything I've ever read, including info I got when I was taking the motorcycle course, has been pretty clear that the majority of accidents for bikes are caused by other drivers. I don't have a link to anything so you'll just have to take me at my word. If you really want to see some data on this, just call any of the motorcycle schools in town as I'm sure they'll have it.

Add to that my annecdotal evidence based on a pretty wide range of bikers (you tend to meet a lot when you're one yourself) indicates the same. Is that annecdotal evidence worth anything? No more or less than yours.

According to this site you are correct. Not sure how accurate the information is, there is no sources to click on.

Approximately three-fourths of these motorcycle accidents involved collision with another vehicle, which was most usually a passenger automobile.

In the single vehicle accidents, motorcycle rider error was present as the accident precipitating factor in about two-thirds of the cases, with the typical error being a slide out and fall due to over braking or running wide on a curve due to excess speed or under-cornering.

In the multiple vehicle accidents, the driver of the other vehicle violated the motorcycle right-of-way and caused the accident in two-thirds of those accidents.

I recall from a book I was reading (blink, maybe?) that people in cars don't see the bikes because their eyes/brain are looking for cars and they actually don't process a bike being there. It's a similar effect to this video, where people don't see the gorilla because they are looking for something else.

But that just makes me want to own a bike even less. Too much of it is out my control and the injuries from accidents are compounded because the only thing to cushion your fall is pavement or metal.

[KTown]

The main point here is that riding a bike in the city is just stupid.

You are risking your life with all the vehicles out there.

I myself have contemplated getting a bike. I trust my riding abilities, but I don't trust the drivers around me. I am the same way in my car. I would only get a bike if I lived somewhere where there is minimal traffic on the roads.

Riding a bike in the city especially in rush hour, you are asking for an accident, but unlike a fender bender, where there is minimal chance of damage to your self in the car on a bike you are at high risk of death.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by KTown

The main point here is that riding a bike in the city is just stupid.

You are risking your life with all the vehicles out there.

I myself have contemplated getting a bike. I trust my riding abilities, but I don't trust the drivers around me. I am the same way in my car. I would only get a bike if I lived somewhere where there is minimal traffic on the roads.

Riding a bike in the city especially in rush hour, you are asking for an accident, but unlike a fender bender, where there is minimal chance of damage to your self in the car on a bike you are at high risk of death.

Why is it only stupid to ride in the city?
I think we all recognize that there is a risk associated with riding a bike, and that you can do your best to mitigate that by realizing that people in cars don't necessarily pay attention to bikes, but never reduce it to zero.

But why is the city worse?
Sure there is more traffic, but the speeds are generally lower than on the highway.
I'd rather crash 10 times at 50kph than once at 100kph.
Seems to me there is a large risk no matter where you ride, so if it's stupid in the city, it's stupid on the highway.

Me I don't think it's stupid in either environment.
Dangerous? Certainly.
But so are a lot of other things I do.

[Jetsfan]

Last Sunday I was driving south on Macleod Trail and this idiot on a motorcycle was doing "wheelies" ie leaning back and driving only on his back tire with his front tire in the air. All I could think of was that he was desparate for attention. I guess his mommy didn't hug him as a child.

[Kerplunk]

Originally Posted by Burninator

I recall from a book I was reading (blink, maybe?) that people in cars don't see the bikes because their eyes/brain are looking for cars and they actually don't process a bike being there. It's a similar effect to this video, where people don't see the gorilla because they are looking for something else.

I could see this as being true. With computer interfaces people build mental models of what they expect to see on a screen or in an application, and it takes extra time to process parts that don't meet that expected model. Applied to driving, people primarily expect to see larger vehicles on the road, so it take extra time to recognize that there is something else there, like a motorcycle.

That being said most bikers I've seen on the road have been decent. Of course there are still the twits doing 140km on Deerfoot or going in and out of cars 3 meters apart, but I'm sure they will get into an accident soon enough; I just hope they don't hurt anyone else.

[Antithesis]

BBS, I understand you're not posting your ideas about this out of any type of spite or to mislead people, but I'm sorry, there are enough dinks driving bikes that I actually do notice when someone is driving one in a courteous or even somewhat normal manner, and the numbers of people doing that are similar to the numbers of those driving like idiots.

I'm sure the statistics about driver fault are true, but that doesn't mean that bikers don't drive like bozos a lot of the time.