The Pathetic State of Albertan Universities

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

I'm pretty sure Albertan students consistently rank highest in the country on national standardized tests. I also remember reading that per capita Alberta also has the greatest number of university graduates.

That does sound kind of familiar. Maybe not "consistently rank highest" but I do know they do alright. I can't for the life of me find proof of it though.

Standardized test scores are nice and all that, but there is more to the equation.

[Swarly]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

I'm pretty sure nobody has suggested that we allow failed high school students into university. Failed high school students aren't the ones being turned away.

We should have more post-secondary spots available for qualified students. Period. Education should be accessible to more people, not less.

Alberta should have the best education system in Canada by a country mile and we don't have it. I doubt we are even close and we don't appear too interested in getting there.

my argument is that anyone who wants to go already can, and in fact it is still far too easy to get in and stay in. I know of no one that wanted to go to university/college and couldn't get in. The only ones not getting in are those people with exceptionally crappy marks in HS. So in effect by letting more people in you're not raising the quality you are just letting in more dumb people for lack of a better term.

I know that this year alone I took some 3rd and 4th year courses and I was able to pass only going 3 times, once to get the syllabus then for the midterm and final. You cant tell me that university is too hard to get into. By opening more spots you aren't making the applicants smarter/better just letting more undeserving people in.

[CaptainCrunch]

I don't care as long as my taxes don't go up anymore, I've spent enough money on you punk ass kids, and not one of you has done a thing for me to pay me back.

[MRCboicgy]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

We should have more post-secondary spots available for qualified students. Period. Education should be accessible to more people, not less.

Exactly. My 4 year degree here at Mt Royal had only 60 spots, of which I was lucky to get one. Apparently over 500 people (just word of mouth from an instructor) applied for those 60 spots.

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by MRCboicgy

Exactly. My 4 year degree here at Mt Royal had only 60 spots, of which I was lucky to get one. Apparently over 500 people (just word of mouth from an instructor) applied for those 60 spots.

with some degrees though, no matter how much money you throw at it you cannot increase capacity, there are only so many spots available for training, particularily degrees with a practicum component. It'd be nice to triple the funding, but there wouldn't be any more places for them to get hands on experience.

Alot of these people who are rejected are rejected because there are only so many spots in each field available, it's tough but you cannot always just increase funding to increase enrollment.

I think in sumation, in non-specialized degrees universitys are probably too easy to get into as it is and in alot of the specialized degrees enrollment is limited more by ability give proper training then lack of funding limiting enrollment. Is it such a bad thing that we make people strive to be their best to get into these more limited degrees?

University educations are a priviledge not a right, the most deserving get in.

[MRCboicgy]

Originally Posted by Dan02

University educations are a priviledge(sic) not a right, the most deserving get in.

Not totally true. I know way too many very deservingpeople that want a 4 yr degree that are smart, didn't screw off in high school and because of economics are not able to attend. I have a friend who has his acceptance letter to Harvard framed in his room because he couldn't go. He ended up going to a CC because it's all he could afford. Smartest guy I know, but at the time they wouldn't pay for him to go. The minute you try to make it a privilege, it means only those who can pay truly get that privilege, not the best and the brightest. To me, trying to prevent the masses from getting an education is like feudal lords being afraid of the printing press as it would allow the working class to become educated. (woo extreme examples!)

The US has it right with the old land grant universities (the state schools, like the University of Oklahoma), where you can get a good education and a solid degree for hundreds of dollars a semester because you are in-state. My roomie took advantage of that down there, and said his engineering roommate paid all of 792 bucks a semester for his degree for in-state tuition.

[Thunderball]

I think a lot of people are missing the point here.

We're not talking about applicants, we're talking about QUALIFIED applicants. Empirically speaking, a student with a B average or better (in metriculation subjects in HS or in their undergraduate) is not going to flunk out of nursing school, education, or even law or medicine. Hell, one could probably find evidence to prove the high C student with the right aptitudes could probably continue to find ways to pass, but I'm not as sure about that.

The point is, universities are not rejecting massive numbers of bums, they are rejecting unacceptable numbers of good people who could more than likely complete their degree and enter the workforce in those desired and understaffed jobs.

If what I remember from being in U of C senate is correct, Alberta essentially needs two more U of C sized universities to supply the amount of spaces needed. One full university alone pretty much devoted to churning out doctors, teachers, nurses and engineers. Apparently we're short at least 200 seats in Law school too (U of C has 75, U of A around 100)... this was from 2005.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by MRCboicgy

Exactly. My 4 year degree here at Mt Royal had only 60 spots, of which I was lucky to get one. Apparently over 500 people (just word of mouth from an instructor) applied for those 60 spots.

I thought you weren't special?

[llama64]

Not sure why this would be surprising to anyone. Alberta has been ruled by a political party and more importantly, a leader who did not value higher education in the slightest. Klein did a lot of damage the education system, starting with kindergarten all the way up to the PhD level. It will take decades to recover.

Access to university needs to be opened and made more attainable to a broader range of classes (as in lower income). Saying that, requirements to pass must be raised. I watched too many complete idiots walk across that stage to pick up there Bachelor degree to believe that it has much credibility anymore.

[Thunderball]

I should add, if we weren't in such a rural, hillbilly dominated province starting with Klein and continuing "nicely" with Special Ed... this would constitute a crisis on a greater level than transportation infrastructure, and rivalling the healthcare sector.

(of course, this crisis is one of the root causes of the healthcare issue too)

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by llama64

Access to university needs to be opened and made more attainable to a broader range of classes (as in lower income).

Despite what the SUs try to sell the public, tuition cost is not really much of a stumbling block. $20-25k for a bachelor's degree over 4 years, and $15-40k over 2-4 for a graduate degree is not a tall order and will reap dividends over time. Student loans are easily available, as are financial aid scholarships. The average undergraduate student should be able to work fulltime in the summer, and part-time during the school year, and earn enough money for tuition, books, and living expenses for the year. They just can't go to the bar 5 days a week.

Solve the problem of not enough room for qualified applicants, then try and make it more accessible. I would even support raising tuition if it meant more qualified applicants could be educated.

[MRCboicgy]

Originally Posted by Azure

I thought you weren't special?

I'm not special, we all know that.

Lucky and Fabulous, I am.

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by MRCboicgy

Not totally true. I know way too many very deservingpeople that want a 4 yr degree that are smart, didn't screw off in high school and because of economics are not able to attend. I have a friend who has his acceptance letter to Harvard framed in his room because he couldn't go. He ended up going to a CC because it's all he could afford. Smartest guy I know, but at the time they wouldn't pay for him to go.

Now how did heck the absurd cost of going to Harvard pop into this thread. Education in Canada is not out of the reach of anyone financially, if you're willing to put the work in.

My parents worked to put themselves through school, why shouldn't I need to? To many people have their hand out expecting things on a silver platter these days.

[Swarly]

Originally Posted by MRCboicgy

Not totally true. I know way too many very deservingpeople that want a 4 yr degree that are smart, didn't screw off in high school and because of economics are not able to attend. I have a friend who has his acceptance letter to Harvard framed in his room because he couldn't go. He ended up going to a CC because it's all he could afford.

Someone couldnt afford to go to harvard? well then something has to be done about this university crisis in Alberta.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Mount Royal has been waging a huge campaign for years to become a university. The article was just another stop on the PR trail.

Are any of the oh woe is me stats different in the rest of the country? I think not. It's pretty tough to look at the massive amounts of contruction ongoing and recently finished at U of C and Mt. Royal and think the government is ignoring education.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally Posted by Dan02

My parents worked to put themselves through school, why shouldn't I need to? To many people have their hand out expecting things on a silver platter these days.

Exactly. The 'problem' is people want the ability to take whatever they want, wherever they want, and all at low or no cost.

Remove any one of those and the 'problem' dissapears. Esp the low or no cost part.