Thinking of a Motorcycle...Stupid Decision?

[Engine09]

I've been on dirtbikes since I was a kid and on the street since '93. Are they safe? Depends what kind of a person you are, I never have the urge to show off and rarely go over the speed limit, have not been in any accidents.

You have to ride very defensively, almost pretend that there is a car at every intersection waiting to pull out and cut you off. Keep your eyes open for the idiots and you'll be fine. No one cares to signal anymore so you have to watch everyone and anticipate their ###### behavior. Be very careful around gravel in the Spring.

In the Summer there is nothing better than riding through the mountains with a T-Shirt, wind all around you, the smells of the trees, the heat, the coolness when you pass by a lake.

I fill up with Premium, $14 is the most I have ever paid just this week and that lasts me over a week. Parking is free is you find the right spots.

[MaxPower]

My two cents:
--Take a course. Absolutely. Not for your sake, for mine and everyone else's.
--Calgary drivers are NOT as bad as a lot of other places. I commuted between Memorial and Airdrie for two years on my bike. When people say drivers don't notice bikes on the road, it's usually because the bike is doing 150km/hr+ in traffic. Who can blame them?
--Riding in someone's blind spot will also cause issues. Pay attention to crap like that, don't expect drivers to be aware of you; MAKE them be aware of you. (Loud pipes save lives).
--Just be aware that a cruiser weighs waaay more and has a lot less braking power than a sport bike and will handle similar to a boat in comparison. Riding stupid on a cruiser is a lot slower than riding stupid on a sportbike. Know the limits.
--Get some decent gear

[troutman]

Originally Posted by MaxPower

(Loud pipes save lives).

"Loud Pipes Save Lives"
or
The Madness Behind the Myth
http://virginiawind.com/byways/loud_...save_lives.asp

Loud pipes are illegal, and might draw gunfire from my father, as every weekend in the summer is ruined by the roar of motorcycles on HWY 22.

http://www.noisefree.org/

http://www.noisefree.org/newsroom/no...splay.php?id=1

The motorcycles are back.

Ah, summer. A cold drink on the porch. Birds singing by the feeder. Sunshine filtering through the trees and oh no, here it comes.

VaROOM! VROOMROOM! VAROOOOOM! VAROOOOOOM! VAROOOoooommm

Sorry about that. The motorcycles are back.

"They want to be seen," Dodge said. "They're saying, 'Look at me! Look at what I'm driving!'"

In other words, they see their motorcycle as an extension of their VaROOM! What they don't see are the multitudes of upraised fingers in their wake.

Still, don't these morons mind their own racket? Don't they give themselves headaches?

"No," Dodge said, "because the sound is behind them."

And here's the worst part. Short of laying out a spike strip and flattening a few overinflated egos, there's not much the rest of us can do about it.

[Burninator]

I've thought about getting a bike, but l have reservations as well. This is what I have thought about.

Are they safe? Well...not as safe as a car. What would be a fender bender in a car could be life threatening on a bike. And no matter how safe and defencive you drive lots is still out of your hands.

Would I drive it like a idiot? I've toned down my driving in my car a lot since I was younger. I am someone who drives 10kph over the limit most of the time, and very rarely do I put the pedal to the metal. I am a more aggressive driver than most, which is not good, but I think if I got a bike I would tone that down (for fear of dying).

I would probably buy a bike that wouldn't encourage me to go fast. If I were to buy a sports bike I would buy the lowest cc (600-650) or a cruiser type bike that isn't built for speed. My primary means for a bike would be commuting, so anything fast or flashing isn't of concern. But I don't want to look like a Euro-trash ###### either by buying a vespa.

Like everyone, I know someone who has been in a crash. A guy a work fell off his bike and hurt his hip, another guys dad smashed up his leg really good, and another person died. But the people at fault in these crashes? The drivers. The first was off roading (which I wouldn't do), the second was going too fast around a corner, and the third was going waaaay too fast.

But bikes do have advantages. They are cheap to buy, they are good on gas, you can park them anywhere, and from what I hear they are fun.

Still, I am holding off on buying a bike for the foreseeable future. Monetary reasons for one, and I'm still worried about the safety aspect and I would like to go on living for a least a little while longer.

[MaxPower]

Originally Posted by troutman

"Loud Pipes Save Lives"
or
The Madness Behind the Myth
http://virginiawind.com/byways/loud_...save_lives.asp

Loud pipes are illegal, and might draw gunfire from my father, as every weekend in the summer is ruined by the roar of motorcycles on HWY 22.

....

"Loud Pipes Save Lives". As indicated by the article it is a popular saying, a part of cruiser (Harley) culture, not something I just made up. I'll start by saying first off, I don't ride a cruiser and guys that do with straight pipes are a special kind of D-Bag. But I won't deny that loud pipes can be safer.

I read through the article above and have a few issues. In the third paragraph he outline four "rather risky" assumptions that motorcycles make:

"These statements seem to presuppose several assumptions that; 1) the other driver is not only going to hear the biker, but take the time to identify their actual location, 2) drivers in general rely on sound as much as vision to locate and avoid obstacles (in this case the motorcyclist), 3) the other driver gives enough of a damn about motorcyclists in the first place to do (1) and (2) above, and 4) that sounds emanating from a motorcycle's exhaust travel equally in all directions from the source."

Before I go on, I'll note that believers in the statement "Loud Pipes Save Lives" do not assume statements 2 or 4 to be true. The author is making wild assumptions of his own here. He goes on to attempt to debunk these "assumptions":

Think about the last time you heard a siren, were you able to identify the location of the approaching vehicle by the sound alone or did you not in fact have to wait to make visual contact with it before you could precisely identify its location relative to you?

I had to make visual contact myself. However, the siren (sound) before anything else, alerted me to the presence of the vehicle. The author fails to outline how this would be any different for a motorcycle. He continues on to attempt to disprove #3:

Do proponents of loud pipes really believe that other motorists are going to concentrate on locating the approaching motorcycle and keep it in view till it is well past them and out of harms way? Where is the evidence to support such a claim?

Most motorists (motorcyclists included) drive with the assumption that other motorists want to protect their own interests and will not wantonly drive into/through/over other vehicles. Not true 100% of the time but it's pretty close.

If the author were successful in disproving assumption #3, that is, that not a single driver "gives enough of a damn about motorcyclists" to avoid hitting them, he would have concurrently proved that ever driver on the road is a murderer (or at the least vehicular manslaughter-er). But loud pipes is his biggest concern? If loud pipes alert only one driver to a motorcyclist's location, the safety benefit is apparent. The author cannot proves that loud pipes DO NOT raise awareness.

From here the author goes on a little tangent about loud pipes giving the public a negative view of motorcyclists (which I agree with, but is not the discussion) before he jumps into his attempt to disprove #4:

"that sounds emanating from a motorcycle's exhaust travel equally in all directions from the source."

As I said above, no one believe #4 to be true. The author continues,

What's interesting here is that motorcycle pipes direct the vast majority of sound backwards where the least danger is

That is a true statement, most sound goes backward but not all. The rest goes sideways and even forwards. The fact that a non-zero sound level travels forward means that louder pipes can only raise other drivers' awareness of an approaching vehicle.

A point the author never considers is the sideways emanation of sound. He only outlines the situation where some dork is approaching from behind at a rapid speed. What about responsible riders cruising at near same speeds as other vehicles? They will constantly hear the sound, be aware of the presence of "something" is the next lane, and won't (hopefully) change lanes right into you. He continues,

The other serious problem I have with this supposition is that it is, at best, a secondary safety measure, not a primary or proactive measure..... That's like assuming that if you were to wear a bright yellow safety vest, or full riding gear, you can relax because now you're protected!

How does the author suppose that a "secondary safety measure" is not useful? It's better than nothing, is it not? Is he also advocating the boycott of full riding gear? He says,

Lets face it, the best protection you have is that 3 pounds of grey matter between your ears

I disagree. The best protection is a combination of using your head along with any other "secondary safety measure" available.

Relying on the other guy to act reasonably or safely just because you're making more noise than those around you is just asking for trouble!

So true, but he's making a baseless assumption that LPSL advocates, as he calls them, put their fate entirely in the hands of other drivers. They believe loud pipes are useful as an additional safety measure.

He basically continues to show that he understands ther reasons for loud pipes, but declares no one actually believes they're safe,

So if you want loud(er) pipes, go ahead put them on, give 'em nice high polish shine and give that throttle a twist and revel in the sound of that deep, throaty rumble, just don't try to tell me you're doing it because "Loud Pipes Save Lives" 'cause dude, now I know better!

The burden is on him to prove that he knows better. He can't.

I am not a firm adherent of the LPSL lifestyles, but that article is so baseless I had to say something. I would be embarrassed to let that article be representative of my stance on the issue.

[JohnnyB]

I have read plenty of stuff about how there appears to be no significant connection between having loud pipes and being less likely to get into an accident, but as a guy with straight pipes on my bike, I can also say that I noticed a significant difference in how aware of me other drivers were after switching my pipes. Also, when riding with my dad, who has quiet pipes, he notices how much more aware of us people are than when he is riding by himself. No scientific study or anything, but I sure feel people are more immediately aware of my coming around.

And I wouldn't tell people I have loud pipes for safety, cause I don't. I have loud pipes cause I love the sound and the experience of riding with them. I can also ride my bike without being a ###### about it. Not everyone with loud pipes is out cracking their throttle all the time, though I certainly do it sometimes.

[Fozzie_DeBear]

My $0.02...

I'm just starting my second season on my bike and am loving it...the best you can do is risk reduction

take a motorcycle class (toocool is good)...I took two classes years apart and it was worth it...

I also live outside the city and rarely drive much in the city, if I lived in the city I would probably not risk it...

I also have installed a headlight and tailight modulator on my bike...and always drive like I am invisible.

I wear the full armor...pants gloves jacket etc. Joe Rocket makes a line called Alter Ego, which can be layered up/down

Get a little bell for the bottom of the bike...keeps the road gremlins away

Don't buy more bike than you need...

And I never EVER drive even after 1 beer...0%

....And buy as much as you can on Ebay, Canadian bikes/gear are wayyyyy overpriced.

[Vulcan]

In my experience others can only hear loud pipes when you are beside them or the rider is ahead. I'd say they have little effect in saving lifes but sound cool and if you don't have a tach, can help to tell you when to shift. I'd say a big horn off a Semi would work better.

[Berger_4_]

My $ 0.02...if you're are trying to convince yourself (or unconvince yourself) on an internet forum, don't buy one. Having said that, I'm sure they're a lot of fun as long as you drive them properly.

[dionfan]

nm

[Slava]

Thought that I would bump this thread from just over 6 years ago because I bought a motorcycle! So far so good. If anyone on CP wants to go for a ride let me know and we could probably get a few of us together.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by Slava

Thought that I would bump this thread from just over 6 years ago because I bought a motorcycle! So far so good. If anyone on CP wants to go for a ride let me know and we could probably get a few of us together.

Enjoy, but stay safe dude.

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by Slava

Thought that I would bump this thread from just over 6 years ago because I bought a motorcycle! So far so good. If anyone on CP wants to go for a ride let me know and we could probably get a few of us together.

Long weekend coming up. Red Deer, sans wives?

[Table 5]

What did you get?

I like the idea of motorbikes and I'm sure they are fun as hell, but I can just never get over the safety aspect of it to go down that route...so I have to admire from afar. But I'm definitely a little jealous of anyone who does.

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by Table 5

What did you get?

I like the idea of motorbikes and I'm sure they are fun as hell, but I can just never get over the safety aspect of it to go down that route...so I have to admire from afar. But I'm definitely a little jealous of anyone who does.

I've been riding for just over a decade, but I have friends who have a few decades in without incident. There is risk, no doubt, but I and my riding friends are all older and very careful. We ride cruisers and there are no stupid people in the group. I love summer riding (there have been years when our second car has not left the garage) and am willing to accept the risks. I practise defensive driving and don't feel I'm in any significant danger.

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by fotze

Swordfights

Actually, I do own a sword (long story). I can bring it if Slava wants.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

I've been riding for just over a decade, but I have friends who have a few decades in without incident. There is risk, no doubt, but I and my riding friends are all older and very careful. We ride cruisers and there are no stupid people in the group. I love summer riding (there have been years when our second car has not left the garage) and am willing to accept the risks. I practise defensive driving and don't feel I'm in any significant danger.

I know millions of people do it safely every day, but I guess for me, it seems like a matter of time before something goes wrong. It's the same with cars too of course, it's only a matter of time before you get in an accident, but at least with a car there's a ton of safety devices to help you out. Even a minor accident on a bike seems inherently more dangerous. And I'm inherently clumsy and have bad balance, ha.

That and I just don't trust Calgary drivers enough. You can be the safest rider in the world, but still be hit by some inattentive mom in a land barge. Which is exactly what happened to my wifes uncle last year...it cost him one of his legs.

Riding does look stupid fun though and I am jealous (as long as you're not riding one of those obnoxious loud ones).

[Slava]

I got a cruiser, its a Suzuki C50T. Its not obnoxiously loud, but it looks like it would be. Its actually pretty quiet. I was worried about riding in traffic, and I think that is normal, but to be honest now that I've done so a number of times its really not scary at all.

I will definitely go for a ride with you moneyguy. Not this weekend, but we can meet in Red Deer and head out west for a ride for sure!

[Igottago]

There is undeniably something cool about bikes. I've often pondered getting a license to ride. But there are just too many drawbacks to make it worthwhile for me.

-Safety - I get in a minor collision in a car, I take it to the repair shop. I get in a minor collision on a bike, I might be dead, or crippled for life.
- Weather -- Not only am I in tough if the weather changes on me, Calgary only really offers 2-3 months of use per year for a motorcycle.
- Gear - To ride safely you need your gloves, jacket, helmet, pants, etc. Who wants to wear all that in 30 degree weather, and then lug it around when they reach their destination?

I guess it depends how much you crave the thrill and excitement of it.

[DownhillGoat]

Originally Posted by Igottago

But there are just too many drawbacks to make it worthwhile for me.

IMO none of those drawbacks outweigh the pros