Greatest living intellectual?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by troutman

...no one would want to get in a verbal debate with him. That is where he impresses me. And I often disagree with him. Politician? He is never afraid to make an unpopular argument.

Fair enough. But if this is a barometre for how one rates as an intellectual, whuy not nominate Phillip Johnson while we're at it?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by troutman

I suppose I have not read enough of him to comment on his writing, but no one would want to get in a verbal debate with him. That is where he impresses me. And I often disagree with him. Politician? He is never afraid to make an unpopular argument.

TV preachers can spin it off on TV too.

Doesn't make them 'great' by any means.

I'd call Hawkins a political commentator. Nothing more.

[troutman]

Has there ever been a survey on celebrity intellectual IQ scores?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by troutman

Has there ever been a survey on celebrity intellectual IQ scores?

Not that I know of, but some of what I have seen are quite surprising. Mira Sorvino is a graduate from a very prestigious programme at Harvard, and a certifiable genius.

[Delthefunky]

Originally Posted by Kipru

Trey Parker and Matt Stone

Important points made into a understandable form (cartoon). From cigarettenazis like Rob Reiner to catholic priests, they point out weird things in our world (well, mainly USA) and make me laugh. I can't succest Stephen Hawking, Shuji Nakamura or Muhammad Yunus since i have not a dimmest idea what they have really done and what good has it done to me.

haha, couldn't agree more... I used to think South Park was kinda funny in my teens, i'm not sure if it's me or the cartoon, but the last few seasons have been GOLD. Oprah's Midge and the Cartman - Nintendo Wii episodes are sooo funny

[MelBridgeman]

wow how can you define this? ....dawkins? lol..

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Not that I know of, but some of what I have seen are quite surprising. Mira Sorvino is a graduate from a very prestigious programme at Harvard, and a certifiable genius.

I have heard Madonna and Sharon Stone have very high IQs. I find this hard to believe once I hear them speak.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by troutman

I have heard Madonna and Sharon Stone have very high IQs. I find this hard to believe once I hear them speak.

Goldie Hawn, the mother of Kate Hudson and logtime companion of Kurt Russell is a member of MENSA.

Steve Martin is a a member of Mensa.

The IQ Scores of Famous Celebrities


Albert Eeinstein
IQ Score 160

Andy Wharhol
IQ Score 86

Bill Clinton
IQ Score 137

Bill Gates
IQ Score 160

Christopher Langan
IQ Score 195

Geena Davis
IQ Score 140

George W. Bush
IQ Score 125

Hillary Clinton
IQ Score 140

James Woods
IQ Score 180

Jodie Foster
IQ Score 132

Judith Polgar
IQ Score 170

Kim Ung Yong
IQ Score 210

Madonna
IQ Score 140

Marilyn Vos Savant
IQ Score 186

Nicole Kidman
IQ Score 132

Philip Emeagwali
IQ Score 190

Quinton Tarantino
IQ Score 160

Shakira
IQ Score 140

Sharon Stone
IQ Score 154

Stephen Hawking
IQ Score 160

More....

[FireFly]

I'm having a hard time believing that Sharon Stone is smarter than I.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by FireFly

I'm having a hard time believing that Sharon Stone is smarter than I.

Having a high IQ doesn't mean you are wise.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by FireFly

I'm having a hard time believing that Sharon Stone is smarter than I.

I'm having a hard time believing that they have an accurate IQ score for a guy who has been dead for 2400 years.

Plato was quite prolific, having written ~30 odd Philosophical dialogues and his series of letters, but the genuineness of some of those letters is in question to this very day. I can only assume that whoever "measured" his IQ could only do so by reading his work and contemplating the biographical facts, which I suppose could be remotely valid if we have all the facts and all the writing, but we don't. We know very little about his childhood and early life and we don't know if he actually wrote everything that has been attributed to him.

But he was no doubt a smart guy.

From the My Favorite Plato Facts File: Plato hung out with a guy named Dion quite a bit.

As for living intellectuals, that's a tough one, but off the top of my head I would suggest we consider Notre Dame philosopher Alvin Plantinga, English playwright Allan Plater, South African sportsman Gary Player and German philosopher Helmuth Plessner. I've admired their work for years.

And from a historical perspective, I think we would be remiss if we didn't mention the poet Sylvia Plath.

[alltherage]

Oprah.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

I'm having a hard time believing that they have an accurate IQ score for a guy who has been dead for 2400 years...

This is what I find so unbelievably ridiculous about the link: does someone honestly expect us to believe that they can actually know the IQ of so many people who have been dead for so long since intelligence quotients began to be calculated only 100 years ago? Seriously.

Especially considering the cultural and social baises inherent in intelligence testing, coming even remotely close to accurate figures for Plato or even Copernicus or John Locke or Beethoven is nothing more than a crap-shoot.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by alltherage

Oprah.

I suppose it would be helpful to define what is meant when we speak of "intellectuals." Because there are so many measures for how to determine what is intelligent vs. what is not, some form of standardization is required in this discussion. Education? publication? influence? recognition? Each of these are important factors—in my estimation—and I am not altogether certain that Oprah Winfrey satisfies enough criteria at a high enough level to be considered anything more than an influential celebrity. I certianly would not consider her an "intellectual".

[Savvy27]

John Ralston Saul is my favourite. He is wonderfully eloquent and experienced in several different fields.

This is a great thread idea, I've never heard of many of the names mentioned here so thank you to everyone who replied!

Alain de Botton is another philosopher that I recommend for anyone looking for some new reading material.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by FireFly

I'm having a hard time believing that Sharon Stone is smarter than I.

And you shouldn't believe it--at least not based on I.Q. scores. A common misconception about I.Q. is that it's a raw measure of intelligence. I.Q. was originally an age-based quotient designed to measure how children compared to the mean intelligence expected in a normal child of their age. Scores above 100 indicated above average intelligence, those below indicated below average intelligence. In adults, a different test is used, but it's been essentially discredited, for many reasons--one being that "intelligence" turns out to be a far more slippery concept than we think. Until you know what it is, you can't measure it. More critically for this discussion, I.Q. is unreliable in very intelligent people, because I.Q. tests don't contain enough difficult questions anyway. There's some useful information about this here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ

I.Q. is not a reliable metric in this or any case in my view. The results speak for themselves: George Bush is smarter than Andy Warhol? Please.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

And you shouldn't believe it--at least not based on I.Q. scores. A common misconception about I.Q. is that it's a raw measure of intelligence. I.Q. was originally an age-based quotient designed to measure how children compared to the mean intelligence expected in a normal child of their age. Scores above 100 indicated above average intelligence, those below indicated below average intelligence. In adults, a different test is used, but it's been essentially discredited, for many reasons--one being that "intelligence" turns out to be a far more slippery concept than we think. Until you know what it is, you can't measure it. More critically for this discussion, I.Q. is unreliable in very intelligent people, because I.Q. tests don't contain enough difficult questions anyway. There's some useful information about this here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ

I.Q. is not a reliable metric in this or any case in my view. The results speak for themselves: George Bush is smarter than Andy Warhol? Please.

We tend to elevate political commentators/philosophers we agree with to unreal heights while denigrating those we philosophically disagree with to unreal depths.

As an example, I think Chomsky, as a political commentator, is a pretty good linguist.

Your example of Andy Warhol is interesting. From The Philosophy of Andy Warhol, in his own words,art is:

"Making money is art, and working is art and good business is the best art."

Warhol also said, "When you think about it, department stores are kind of like museums," which some observors also use as an excellent summary of his philosophy.

Obviously, there would be an enormous number of wonderfully talented artists who would disagree with him - in fact, probably think of him as an idiot - and an enormous number of wonderfully talented CEO's who would think him an eccentric genius.

My point is, that anytime we attempt to measure intellectual prowess we are likely limited in our appreciation by our own point of view.

What I've found through time is that some people are just really good at taking tests. And others, some whom I've encountered who never finished high school, are just really good at being successful.

The greatest intellectuals? A fairly impossible task.

Cowperson

[Kipru]

I think there is intelligence that builds us a better world: mathematical abilities and ability to make decisions logically. This is measured by I.Q tests.

Then there is intelligence that leaves your name into history: social intelligence and ability question everything in the world around you. This is measured on how many years you have been unemployed after university, where you studied some feminology and history of french language. Or maybe you lived 2500 years ago in a barrel and mastubated in the middle of the town square, thus writing your name in the great book of intellectuals.

I thought that I had a point when I started writing this, but naturally my social intelligence wasn't sufficient.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by Kipru

I think there is intelligence that builds us a better world: mathematical abilities and ability to make decisions logically. This is measured by I.Q tests.

Then there is intelligence that leaves your name into history: social intelligence and ability question everything in the world around you. This is measured on how many years you have been unemployed after university, where you studied some feminology and history of french language. Or maybe you lived 2500 years ago in a barrel and mastubated in the middle of the town square, thus writing your name in the great book of intellectuals.

I thought that I had a point when I started writing this, but naturally my social intelligence wasn't sufficient.

You've actually made the most sense of anyone in this thread.

Cowperson

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

Your example of Andy Warhol is interesting. From The Philosophy of Andy Warhol, in his own words,art is:

"Making money is art, and working is art and good business is the best art."

Warhol also said, "When you think about it, department stores are kind of like museums," which some observors also use as an excellent summary of his philosophy.

Warhol was a genius--but his observation that department stores are like museums is stolen from Walter Benjamin, a Frankfurt-School Marxist who meditated at length on the effect of commodity culture on our notions of history and the work of art. But it's not such a crazy thing to say, really--and what I like about Warhol is summed up pretty well in these two quotes.

In the end, my point wasn't that Warhol is clearly "smarter" than George W. Bush--more that they're so different that to compare them using a single metric is silly. For the record, I think Bush is smarter than he lets on.