x92.9 Calgary's New Rock Alternative?

[Kipper is King]

fredr123-you made some good points. Maybe niche stations just are not viable.

[foofighter15]

Originally Posted by fredr123

There's a rap niche that begs to be filled too. Wait. We tried that already? Oh. We had two rap stations at the same time? Hmm.

I don't think running a radio station is cheap. That means, it takes money to make it work. Someone needs to pay the bills and that someone is usually sponsors.

The price for radio ads varies but, in large part, is based on the number of potential customers that ad can hit. Ads on stations with powerful signals that can be heard for dozens or hundreds of kilometers will, all things being equal, cost more than ads on a station with weak signals. Along the same lines, radio stations with more listeners can demand higher prices for ads than radio stations with fewer listeners. None of this has to be explained; it's pretty self-explanatory.

All this being said, I don't think niche radio stations can survive in a market as small as Calgary on the FM dial. There's a lot of pressure to make money and the easiest way to do that is to get your ratings up by appealing to the widest audience possible. A true alternative station may very well have a loyal and devout following but I'm not sure it would be of sufficient size to make make the numbers work.

We've probably seen this same thing happen on satellite radio too. How many oddball niche stations were promised or actually available at launch that have since changed formats? The pressure to appeal to the masses and be everything to everyone is undeniable.

Undoubtedly, someone on CP must've had something to do with CJSW and can comment on the business side of things with a station like that better than I ever could.

RE: Same songs over and over again
Most, if not all, radio stations play the same hit songs over and over again. I bet if you look at the numbers, the average listener only has their radio tuned to any particular station for an average of X minutes. Perhaps it's the drive home or the morning commute. Sure there are exceptions like people who leave the radio on all day at work but the vast majority of listeners probably don't listen for an extended period of time. Because of this, there is less incentive to mix up the play list at the risk of detracting from the aura of being the station that is always playing the hits you love whenever you tune in.

So for the most part you said obvious things such as money is important, and keeping listeners brings money. Sounds like regular business stuff to me.

Yes, we had two rap stations at once in Calgary and it didn't work out. How that could surprise anyone is beyond me. When they came out, Calgary was still a very conservative and older town. Now that Calgary has become much more urban and diverse I think one would have a better shot.

In Calgary country wouldn't be considered niche, but it sure is in other places. If Chicago can have a country station I think that pretty much shows that any major city can have niche stations.

I also have to disagree with your comment on people not listening all day. I think you would be surprised how often people listen to the radio all day. I've never worked in a kitchen that didn't have a radio, never seen a construction site without at least one. I know of 7 out of 16 people in my office alone who listen to a radio station all day and the list goes on and on.

And the reason I original mentioned how X plays the same songs all day is because they original based their platform on not being CJAY, and IMO they are CJAY without the classic rock, and with Indie.

[FireFly]

I'm a Fuel listener. I LOVE their mix of music. I don't listen to radio to hear the DJs, so mostly I tune them out except when the weather is on.

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by foofighter15

So for the most part you said obvious things such as money is important, and keeping listeners brings money. Sounds like regular business stuff to me.

Exactly.

Originally Posted by foofighter15

Yes, we had two rap stations at once in Calgary and it didn't work out. How that could surprise anyone is beyond me. When they came out, Calgary was still a very conservative and older town. Now that Calgary has become much more urban and diverse I think one would have a better shot.

That part was meant to be hilarious. FAIL! I would argue that in the past 3 or 4 years since the rap stations failed, the City hasn't changed that dramatically. One station may be able to survive for a while but I still don't think the urban population is there to support a rap station in Calgary long term.

Originally Posted by foofighter15

In Calgary country wouldn't be considered niche, but it sure is in other places. If Chicago can have a country station I think that pretty much shows that any major city can have niche stations.

The population of Chicago, according to wikipedia, is 2,873,000+ which is more than twice the size of Calgary. Also, according to that chart it looks like Chicago might be the third largest city in the USA. I see your point and I know what you're trying to get at but I don't think Chicago is a good illustration.

Originally Posted by foofighter15

I also have to disagree with your comment on people not listening all day. I think you would be surprised how often people listen to the radio all day. I've never worked in a kitchen that didn't have a radio, never seen a construction site without at least one. I know of 7 out of 16 people in my office alone who listen to a radio station all day and the list goes on and on.

You're probably right. My statement was based on my experience only so YRMV. However, whenever a station is going to be played all day and more than two or three people are going to be listening chances are the station will usually have a broad appeal. That often means soft rock or top 40. You don't often hear CJAY or Vibe in elevators or when you're on hold (at least I don't). Most often, it's some easy listening stuff that probably doesn't top most people's list for Awesomest Music Genre Evar but is also least likely to offend anyone.

Originally Posted by foofighter15

And the reason I original mentioned how X plays the same songs all day is because they original based their platform on not being CJAY, and IMO they are CJAY without the classic rock, and with Indie.

Fair comment. Most stations seem to categorize songs as either light-, medium-, or heavy-rotation and play accordingly. It's not a practice exclusive to crappy rock or pretend alternative stations.

I wonder if CanCon rules play into this at all? How many true alternative Canadian bands are out there that can help fulfill the Canadian Content requirements?

[troutman]

Originally Posted by fredr123

I wonder if CanCon rules play into this at all? How many true alternative Canadian bands are out there that can help fulfill the Canadian Content requirements?

There are literally thousands of Canadian bands that never get any attention outside of campus stations like CJSW.

CanCon has an effect opposite of what was intended - it props up lowest common denominator bands that don't really need the support. There are only a handful Canadian bands that get played, and they get played over and over on commercial radio.

Check this site out if you are truly interested in Canadian bands:

http://radio3.cbc.ca/

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by troutman

There are literally thousands of Canadian bands that never get any attention outside of campus stations like CJSW.

CanCon has an effect opposite of what was intended - it props up lowest common demoninator bands that don't really need the support. There are only a handful Canadian bands that get played, and they get played over and over on commercial radio.

Check this site out if you are truly interested in Canadian bands:

http://radio3.cbc.ca/

You're not the first person who recommended that station to me and, for the record, I agree with the effect CanCon has had on Canadian artists.

If the only organizations willing (or able) to support alternative music are universities and the CBC, then that probably says a lot about the economics behind this genre.

I listen to a lot of different stations, X929 being just one of them. It would be fantastic if a station would only play stuff I like and keep stuff I don't like off their playlist. Probably never going to happen. Everyone's probably in the same boat. My only point is, and this is based on a lot of speculation and my opinion only, that unless the economics change I don't think you're going to see a successful alternative station in Calgary anytime soon.

[foofighter15]

I love the convenient breaking up of thoughts!

Originally Posted by fredr123

Exactly.

That part was meant to be hilarious. FAIL! I would argue that in the past 3 or 4 years since the rap stations failed, the City hasn't changed that dramatically. One station may be able to survive for a while but I still don't think the urban population is there to support a rap station in Calgary long term.

I would say that Calgary has changed that much. When I moved to Seattle, and yes eventually Chicago, those stations were just getting started.
When I moved back I saw such a different in Calgary.

Originally Posted by fredr123

The population of Chicago, according to wikipedia, is 2,873,000+ which is more than twice the size of Calgary. Also, according to that chart it looks like Chicago might be the third largest city in the USA. I see your point and I know what you're trying to get at but I don't think Chicago is a good illustration.

I know that was coming. I was going to say Seattle but couldn't remember if they had a country station and was to lazy to look it up

Originally Posted by fredr123

You're probably right. My statement was based on my experience only so YRMV. However, whenever a station is going to be played all day and more than two or three people are going to be listening chances are the station will usually have a broad appeal. That often means soft rock or top 40. You don't often hear CJAY or Vibe in elevators or when you're on hold (at least I don't). Most often, it's some easy listening stuff that probably doesn't top most people's list for Awesomest Music Genre Evar but is also least likely to offend anyone.

I agree that soft rock and all that stuff is more likley to be in the elevator or in the office, but my main focus of that point was more blue collar jobs like construction sites, truckers, kitchens and what not.

Originally Posted by fredr123

I wonder if CanCon rules play into this at all? How many true alternative Canadian bands are out there that can help fulfill the Canadian Content requirements?

I think there would be enough. For example my band!
But the issue with this is, if you tried to go local, you'd end up with alot of the Indie style bands again.
Stupid full circle arguments

[Muta]

I really liked X92.9 at one point, but then they started getting all indie / emo, really quick.

Their music changed, and they drifted from playing the music that made them cool in the first place.

I have no problem with indie / emo music, I just don't listen to it. But, I do have a problem when it becomes a radio station's focus when it's not what they're advertising.

If I wanted to listen to Indie music, I'll switch to CJSW - which I don't. This city doesn't need two of those kinds of stations. I just want to hear 90's and alterative music, with as few DJ voices / commercials as possible. Leave the indie / emo stuff for CJSW and the people who want to listen to that type of music. I want my mainstream rock / alternative music, that's all.

Their whiny DJ's are really annoying, too. I don't give two craps what you do outside of work, or what you think about people in general... I want to hear Scott Weiland's voice or Maynard James Keegan's voice, not yours... so do me a favour, and shut the f* up.

Alas, I'll keep listening to it. Alteast I know that I can hear Tool on the station from time to time, and that makes it worthwhile. Lord knows no other radio station in this crummy radio scene would play them.

BTW, anyone want a decent mainstream rock radio station, tune into KCLB 93.7 in Palm Springs, CA.... prolly the best radio station I've heard in a long time. Haven't listened to it for a while, but I was blown away by the content they played - and content they didn't play!

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by Muta

BTW, anyone want a decent mainstream rock radio station, tune into KCLB 93.7 in Palm Springs, CA.... prolly the best radio station I've heard in a long time. Haven't listened to it for a while, but I was blown away by the content they played - and content they didn't play!

http://www.937kclb.com/justplayed.html

Aaaaaahhh! Nickelback!

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Muta

If I wanted to listen to Indie music, I'll switch to CJSW - which I don't. This city doesn't need two of those kinds of stations. I just want to hear 90's and alterative music, with as few DJ voices / commercials as possible. Leave the indie / emo stuff for CJSW and the people who want to listen to that type of music. I want my mainstream rock / alternative music, that's all.

What is Indie music too you? Or Alternative? Emo? Can you provide examples of each?

Alternative used to have a different meaning - you seem to equate it with mainstream music, when it originally meant the opposite.

All these labels can get confusing.

http://wc10.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=77:367

Alternative Pop/Rock is essentially a catch-all term for post-punk bands from the mid-'80s to the mid-'90s. Though there is a variety of musical styles within Alternative Rock, they are all tied together since they existed outside of the mainstream. In some ways, there are two waves of alternative bands, with Nirvana's success in 1991 acting as a dividing point. In the '80s, most alternative bands were on independent labels; if they were on majors, they didn't receive as much support as most of the label's mainstream acts. During the '80s, alternative included everything from jangle pop, post-hardcore punk, funk metal, punk pop, and experimental rock. After Nirvana's popularity in the '90s, alternative included all of these subgenres, but many of the edges were sanded off because the music was now being marketed as part of the mainstream. Hard rock and punk-derived music were more commercially successful than the left-of-center pop that dominated late-'80s alternative pop/rock, so alternative lost some of its quirkier tendencies in the '90s. Most experimental bands were relegated to indie rock.

http://wc10.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=77:4525

Originally an arty outgrowth of hardcore punk, emo became an important force in underground rock by the late '90s, appealing to modern-day punks and indie-rockers alike. Some emo leans toward the progressive side, full of complex guitar work, unorthodox song structures, arty noise, and extreme dynamic shifts; some emo is much closer to punk-pop, though it's a bit more intricate. Emo lyrics are deeply personal, usually either free-associative poetry or intimate confessionals. Though it's far less macho, emo is a direct descendant of hardcore's preoccupations with authenticity and anti-commercialism; it grew out of the conviction that commercially oriented music was too artificial and calculated to express any genuine emotion.

http://wc10.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=77:2687

Indie rock takes its name from "independent," which describes both the do-it-yourself attitudes of its bands and the small, lower-budget nature of the labels that release the music. The biggest indie labels might strike distribution deals with major corporate labels, but their decision-making processes remain autonomous. As such, indie rock is free to explore sounds, emotions, and lyrical subjects that don't appeal to large, mainstream audiences — profit isn't as much of a concern as personal taste (though the labels do, after all, want to stay in business). It's very much rooted in the sound and sensibility of American underground and alternative rock of the '80s, albeit with a few differences that account for the changes in underground rock since then. In the sense that the term is most widely used, indie rock truly separated itself from alternative rock around the time that Nirvana hit the mainstream.

http://wc10.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=73:20

My next band (The Handsome Gadabouts) will be specifically a Lo-Fi Indie Cowpunk Post-Grunge Underground Math Rock band.

[looooob]

Originally Posted by troutman

What is Indie music too you? Or Alternative? Emo? Can you provide examples of each?

Alternative used to have a different meaning - you seem to equate it with mainstream music, when it originally meant the opposite.

All these labels can get confusing.

.

indeed similarly in this thread we've heard that indie and mainstream are essentially becoming the same, which strikes me as counter to at least the original definition of indie

labels are confusing

what I gather from this thread is that many agree that a truely alternative/indie station (use University radio as a starting point) is unlikely to be financially succesful in Calgary...but a station playing 'alternative' music in the sense of " was covered in Spin magazine in the 1990s" (and I don't use that as a completely derogatory term as I certainly did like/ do like that 'scene' ) would have a following

[troutman]

Sometime in the mid-90s "alternative" rock got stolen from us. Bob Mould wrote a song about it, "I Hate Alternative Rock":

I knew you when you had something to say . . .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_rock

By the mid-90s, alternative was synonymous with grunge in the eyes of the mass media and the general public, and a supposed "alternative culture" was being marketed to the mainstream in much the same way as the hippiecounterculture had in the 1960s (the existence of any such culture is debatable, and is often seen by some fans of the music to have been a creation of the media). Thus, many wildly popular post-grunge bands such as Third Eye Blind and Matchbox Twenty were labeled as "alternative" rock. Nevertheless, alternative bands who were leery of broad commercial success developed indie rock, a genre that espoused a return to the original ethos of alternative music

So to summarize, X.92.9 is mainstream music, played by Emo DJs.

[Flames_Gimp]

i liked it, until i heard the tragically hip played...I'd rather hear nickleback

[Deelow]

Originally Posted by foofighter15

In Calgary country wouldn't be considered niche, but it sure is in other places. If Chicago can have a country station I think that pretty much shows that any major city can have niche stations.

The Country format is not a niche format. It is big, big business all over North America.

[Sainters7]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

From the start they felt like Cjay minus the classic crap.

I'm fine with it, though I wish they would alter their playlist to be more like Sonic in Edmonton.

Sonic's awesome! One of the few things that helps me to put up with living in this Godforsaken city. Since I got Sirius radio in June I've hardly touched the local channels, but the last few months before I got it I noticed Sonic was starting to get quite repetative itself. Still a great channel though, the morning guy(can't even remember his name anymore, man its been awhile since I listened to local radio) is the tops.

[gildo]

I used to like Energy 101.5 when it first came out but then they started playing crap and it got shut off in a hurry....plus Sundays it's devoted to some nut job of a lady who is psychic and can solve your problems by hearing your voice. About DJ's have you ever heard Beezly on Jack (love him in the dome) but come on Beezly time to let go of the taped little bits of the internet you have got to be more creative than that. Richards of the fan is falling fast, I listen from 8:10am when Maher starts to about 8:20am when Maher ends.

[bradster57]

Originally Posted by Sainters7

Sonic's awesome! One of the few things that helps me to put up with living in this Godforsaken city. Since I got Sirius radio in June I've hardly touched the local channels, but the last few months before I got it I noticed Sonic was starting to get quite repetative itself. Still a great channel though, the morning guy(can't even remember his name anymore, man its been awhile since I listened to local radio) is the tops.

It's Garner Andrews on the Sonic. Amazing how you can be so funny and not have to revert to fart and "morning wood" jokes. Not the type of thing I'm into at 6:30am! I listen to that station at work on their internet feed- worth giving it a try forsure! Their DJs are the least annoying I've heard.

[Sainters7]

Originally Posted by bradster57

It's Garner Andrews on the Sonic. Amazing how you can be so funny and not have to revert to fart and "morning wood" jokes. Not the type of thing I'm into at 6:30am! I listen to that station at work on their internet feed- worth giving it a try forsure! Their DJs are the least annoying I've heard.

Yes! Garner Andrews, thank you! For some reason he's got a name that just won't stick in my head. Yeah he's awesome, he's got a great, sarcastic-witty, kind of dorky sense of humour, which suits me just fine. I love how he makes cracks about the seedy area the station's in "The glamorous used hubcap district is how he refers to it", and he was actually a little upset when he found out someone had finally taken down the tower of mattresses that used to stand proud a few doors down for awhile haha. I drove down that street once, its even worse than it sounds.

[stuck_in_chuk]

Add me to the list of fans of Sonic. It was one of the few good things about the dark years in Edmonton. Entertaining DJs and good music, with better variety than x92.9 has.

I am thankful for the Alan Cross show, as I have been a fan of the show since it started back when I lived in Toronto. I always made sure to listen to the show on Sunday nights.

I am also a big fan of radio3.cbc.ca - you can make your own playlist, download podcasts, and generally check out artists that you would never hear anywhere else.

[calf]

Thing I liked about Sonic that I noticed when I was there in September was when the played "Furious" Frank Sinatra at 5...simply fantastic.