Personal Dilemma

[corporatejay]

Don't blow the good thing you've got now. Take your current girlfriend out on the best date she's ever had, and don't look back.

bang on!

people have doubts, that's natural...people want things they can't have, and that's natural, but in the end you'll realize that your current gf is the one for you and you might have thrown it away for some "fling".

the idea that 'you either know or you don't' is kinda mythical, relationships are hard work. You'll know whether you love her and whether she's worth it, but things don't just "fall" into place.

[FireFly]

When all else fails, hookers and blow.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Watch High Fidelity.

There are always going to be new women in your life, some you might have a crush on, that's pretty natural. But for the most part there is a reason you're still in love with the girl you're with. The new girls always seem more exciting, dangerous, fun then the ones we're with, and sometimes they are, but for the most part they wear the same boring cotton white panties that your girlfriend wears when she isn't trying to impress anyone.

[gallione11]

Thanks for all the replies guys (and gals). It's given me a lot to think about, which is a good thing. I will respond directly to some of the last posts when I get a chance tomorrow, but the GF is walking in and out of the room so it's not exactly a good time to post about this .

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by gallione11

Thanks for all the replies guys (and gals). It's given me a lot to think about, which is a good thing. I will respond directly to some of the last posts when I get a chance tomorrow, but the GF is walking in and out of the room so it's not exactly a good time to post about this .

You now realize you can't ever show her your username now right?

One bored afternoon.. you leave Calgarypuck open... post history.. busted.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Maybe the admins can grant an exception to the name change rule, assuming that it's his last name. Call it the CP Poster Protection Program. Might ward off an accidental discovery.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

You now realize you can't ever show her your username now right?

One bored afternoon.. you leave Calgarypuck open... post history.. busted.

Nah. Give it two days, and this thread will be gone off the front page. If his gf is going on his computer and searching his post history without reason, that would be a pretty good sign its time to cut her loose.

[Flames09]

Temptations will always come your way, you need to talk to your girlfriend and work through this, don't throw away a year and half for temptation. Working through this will probably bring you and your girlfriend closer... especially if you trust her enough to tell her this.

[icarus]

I know how complicated situations like this can be--especially when it is a coworker situation (believe me I know, oh Lord do I know) So everyone will advise you but no one truly knows the details of the situation and the feelings involved.

Anyway, I think the first thing you need to do is sort out whether you truly want to be with your current gf. Do some soul searching, then get back to us.

[gallione11]

Ok, got the house to myself this morning, so here goes:

For those who said do not talk to the GF about this, I totally agree. I can't see anything good coming from that. She would feel highly insecure, and I don't want that. I spent the first six months of our relationship rebuilding her shattered confidence from her last relationship, and one conversation would bring her back to the beginning. No thanks. I would feel the same way too. I really do not want to know if there's a guy she's tempted by, unless, like someone said, she was going to act on it. I just really hope she doesn't flat out ask me, because I don't lie to her. We've both had trust issues in previous relationships due to exes cheating, so we agreed to answer every question honestly. That kind of question would lead to this talk.

We've reminded each other at that time though of the old saying, "Don't ask any questions you don't want to hear the answer to." And it's true. I'm not sure if she's asked me anything she really didn't want to know, but I know I have asked her the odd thing. Some things you are better off not knowing.

Some of you have suggested moving to a new job since the situation is very odd at work. And while I wish it was possible, it won't happen for a little while. My GF is looking, but wants to stay there through November to get her 2 weeks paid vacation. I'm staying until January so I can have my associates degree before I move on. (I make $16/hr and that's not necessarily easy to find). J, well, not sure on her, but I don't think she has plans to move on.

Another suggested that my GF are dead on the J is a threat, and while it may be true, it's not because of anything I have done. We've known J for about a year, and my GF was on the path of becoming good friends with her but said she had that instinct of her being a threat early on ... months before I even really looked at J in that light. Since then, my GF has been convinced J would take me if she could get me, and I've asked why she's so sure. She said it was just a feeling. I don't know if something was said or what, but yeah.

I have maybe made that worse, by talking about J now and then, BUT I did so because I thought they were friends. I just recently found out that my GF was viewing her more as an enemy now. Bah.

For those of you (somewhat jokingly) suggesting threesome, we have talked about that, but given my GF's requirements for the third, J would not fit. Too bad too, because that might quell this temptation quite thoroughly.

Given how the relationship has been pretty good so far, I'm liable to think I should just stay. However, this experience has made me look somewhat objectively on it, and I've recognized two or three "future" issues that could become gamebreakers. One is we don't really like each other's family. Both of our parents are divorced and remarried so that's 4 sets to deal with. She likes my Mom pretty good, really doesn't like my dad. I can't stand her mom. She has a lot of traits that are just...yikes. And while I've been trying to ween my GF away from those traits, I'm not sure how successful it can ever be. Her dad is ok, but lives 4 hours away, and lastly, her sister.

Her sister's place is where all their family gatherings occur. I don't mind her sister, but she's got three young kids (<6) and her husband is a touchy-feely ahole that nobody in her family can stand. And honestly, that branch of the family is white-trash, with a couple dogs and guns in the house.

That presents major problems for me. I don't really like kids, I'm used to not white trash, I hate dogs, her brother-in-law likes to touch my GF a lot (nothing obscene, but still areas and in ways I feel are out of bounds) and I reallly don't like being around guns. And on top of that, I hear horror stories about the brother-in-law's family who will be there at these gatherings FROM my GF. And, um, I'm supposed to go? No thanks. My GF actually came up to me a couple days ago, and said, "The kids three birthdays are coming up (one in November, December and January), our Thanksgiving thing is 11/24 and Christmas at some undecided time in December. All will be at my sister's. I don't expect you to go to a couple, but the rest yes." My head reaction was like..."f*** this". The situation is reversed when it comes to anything at my dad's (which is like a dinner once every four months.) This to me is a big problem. I know (would-be)in-laws aren't always the greatest experience in the world but you should at least be able to tolerate them, right? My GF has even said "Marry the guy/girl, marry the family." This...scares me to some degree. I have gotten out of most of these in the last year, but I don't think I will be fortunate enough this year unless I get really stubborn about it, and thus the problem explodes.

I know some will say, it's only fair. But, with the list I gave in the last paragraph, that's a lot of concessions to deal with. Especially for a potential five nights in the next three months. Chop off two or three things off that list, I wouldn't be so vehemently against it.

The other issue is kids. She's been waffling back and forth. She's young (21) and doesn't want kids now which is good. But, she keeps changing her mind on whether she wants them or not and when she does want them, whether to have one to four. I've been - traumatized is not the best word, but it's all I can think of -- regarding kids. My first real GF had three when I got together with her. I was 18. I think that experience scared me away of ever wanting them. I'm on the fence currently, but I think if I had to make a choice today, I'd say no.

I know it's not realistic/nor fair to have her make a choice now on this issue, but at the same time, I don't want to spend 4-5 years with someone and then break-up over an issue like this. If I had to guess, though I think she will eventually want them, and probably two. That's a conflict right there.


I may have missed some points in there, but there's my novel for now. I'm going to reread the thread and see if I missed anything though.

My current plan of action, is at some point in the near future, when I can find a good time and method to go about it, is talk to my GF. Not about J, but about the rather large doubts I have, and see if there's a way to work through it or not. It's very difficult for me to do something like this, however. I know the results could end up in a lot of hurt, and I really don't like hurting people, especially those that don't really deserve it. Meanwhile, on the J front, I think business as usual for now. I don't think I'm doing anything wrong by just talking to her. I might and that's a big might, try to discreetly find out if there would be anything between us, without taking any actions that would be considered unfaithful. Or maybe even just get confirmation of what my GF suspects. I don't know.

I do know that this experience has given me some doubts, and I believe they are valid. ... Thanks for the responses and the suggestions. I needed somewhere where I could get a decent number of object opinions and experiences. I cannot do this at work, because there are very few people there that know how to keep things in confidence and/or because they like both me and my GF.

Oh yeah, the computer thing. I'm usually very careful about stuff like that. And honestly, I really doubt she would come here. She tolerates hockey for me, but unless she was being snoopy, she has no reason to come here. I don't even think she's knows my user name on here. And, I think that would fall under the "don't ask questions you don't want to hear the answers to" category, Albiet, slightly altered. More like don't go looking for stuff you may not want to find.

[gallione11]

Holy lord that was a long post. Lol.

I did miss one point in that novel.

I'm what you would call a half-believer in that you will know it if she's the one for you theory. And I say that because I believe that does happen from time to time, but not everybody. And just because it doesn't happen, doesn't mean you are with the wrong person. It takes time to make connections sometimes, especially when dealing with people that are cautious to open up at first.

Secondly, if I ever did come across a situation like that, where I felt she was the one, there's a few things she could do that I could never forgive or forget and that would be the end of it. Cheating, is obviously the big one.

[Antithesis]

I'm only saying this because you posted in here asking for advice, and it may come off as a completely a-hole-ish thing to say, but trust me, I'm not saying it to be spiteful:

I think you have already decided that your current girlfriend is not for you, for whatever reason, and are in some ways trying to rationalize it. You've already decided that her family is too big of an issue to deal with. You're willing to bet a couple of thing about children: 1. that she will want them 2. that you will continue not to ... and you're willing to break it off rather than see where things will go there. You said yourself that it's not fair.

I don't know why you're posting all the rationalizations that you have - maybe you feel guilty for wanting to 'test the waters' ... maybe there is more to the J thing than you are letting on (I'm not accusing, just saying) ... whatever - it's obvious you've decided on your course of action when you say something like: "Meanwhile, on the J front, I think business as usual for now. I don't think I'm doing anything wrong by just talking to her. I might and that's a big might, try to discreetly find out if there would be anything between us, without taking any actions that would be considered unfaithful." If you were truly, truly committed to your relationship with your girlfriend, such a thought would never enter your mind.

Here is MY definition of unfaithful - if you can't tell your partner that you are doing it - it is unfaithful. Plain as can be. Would you go to her and say, "So I'm going to ask J if she is interested in me because I think she might be better than you?"

Didn't think so.

ETA: You're really picking nits over the having to visit her family over the holidays thing, in my opinion. There is no way it is unreasonable for her to expect/want you to celebrate the occasions you are quoting with her and her family, were you committed to this relationship. Maybe I'm not reading it right and maybe you didn't explain it properly, but I don't understand why visiting at these times is a problem. My friend has a very similar situation with his in-laws - in fact, I'd say it's worse, because they are openly hostile towards him - but he tolerates it because he loves his wife.

[gallione11]

Originally Posted by Antithesis

I'm only saying this because you posted in here asking for advice, and it may come off as a completely a-hole-ish thing to say, but trust me, I'm not saying it to be spiteful:

I think you have already decided that your current girlfriend is not for you, for whatever reason, and are in some ways trying to rationalize it. You've already decided that her family is too big of an issue to deal with. You're willing to bet a couple of thing about children: 1. that she will want them 2. that you will continue not to ... and you're willing to break it off rather than see where things will go there. You said yourself that it's not fair.

I don't know why you're posting all the rationalizations that you have - maybe you feel guilty for wanting to 'test the waters' ... maybe there is more to the J thing than you are letting on (I'm not accusing, just saying) ... whatever - it's obvious you've decided on your course of action when you say something like: "Meanwhile, on the J front, I think business as usual for now. I don't think I'm doing anything wrong by just talking to her. I might and that's a big might, try to discreetly find out if there would be anything between us, without taking any actions that would be considered unfaithful." If you were truly, truly committed to your relationship with your girlfriend, such a thought would never enter your mind.

Here is MY definition of unfaithful - if you can't tell your partner that you are doing it - it is unfaithful. Plain as can be. Would you go to her and say, "So I'm going to ask J if she is interested in me because I think she might be better than you?"

Didn't think so.

ETA: You're really picking nits over the having to visit her family over the holidays thing, in my opinion. There is no way it is unreasonable for her to expect/want you to celebrate the occasions you are quoting with her and her family, were you committed to this relationship. Maybe I'm not reading it right and maybe you didn't explain it properly, but I don't understand why visiting at these times is a problem. My friend has a very similar situation with his in-laws - in fact, I'd say it's worse, because they are openly hostile towards him - but he tolerates it because he loves his wife.

Hey man, no offense taken. I never said I wanted everyone to tell me every thing is rosy and such.

You might be right about me rationalizing things. One thing I did in my last relationship when I knew it was on its last legs was make preparations to move on, and scout out the next one. Maybe I'm doing this now because even though things are good right now, I think like you said, maybe deep down, I know eventually it will not all work out. Note, I did say maybe when I was talking about J, it's not a sure thing. Right now, all we do is talk, and only at work. We have never exchanged e-mails, IMs, phone calls. So, in your definition of unfaithful, I'm not being so. I can and do tell my GF this.

The family thing... I guess I'm a little spoiled by my family. They are not rich, but not white trash. I'd have to say probably upper-mid middle class if that makes any sense. So white trash and hicks are very hard for me to deal with. But my point is, and one I failed to make in my last post is, I'm not even really there to a lot of people, nor do they take into account my feelings / opinions on stuff. I know some of you will think "Well, you're the 'outsider' so why should they?" But my parents have always tried to accomodate my girlfriends and their preferences and removed or stopped things that are uncomfortable. Do I expect this from them? Not really, because that's unrealistic. They can't hide the kids, and the dogs and stop being trashy. However, intent does count too. And from everything I've witnessed, and everything I've heard about them from my GF, they just don't care about anyone else. It's all about them.

That's hard for me to take. Especially when they do that to my GF, and just kind of use her when they want her. She's complained about that many times. All this makes me not want to have anything to do with them. I've tried tolerating them, I really have, but it's not easy, especially when your GF has to try to tolerate them too.

In regards to your friend that just sucks. Good on him for tolerating it, but I think I would expect a little backing up from my GF in a case like that. I've always done that for my GFs if my family becomes hostile with them. In fact, I've "divorced" a set of parents for months at a time because of situations like this. Accept me, accept my GF, if not, you don't see me.

[Flame Of Liberty]

I would say you two break up, by the end of the year latest.

Your gf clearly knows, and is already feeling insecure, sees you and J every day and most likely wont be able to bear it much longer.

As for your long post, dont get me wrong but I think you are already making excusess (or rationalize if you will) in your mind for not being with her anymore - if that happens, its already over.

Finally, I would say J is just flirting and doesnt want any kind of serious relationship - its not her goal - her goal is to prove herself that she is wanted. We have the same girl at our office - flirty as hell, but thats it.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by Antithesis

I think you have already decided that your current girlfriend is not for you, for whatever reason, and are in some ways trying to rationalize it. You've already decided that her family is too big of an issue to deal with. You're willing to bet a couple of thing about children: 1. that she will want them 2. that you will continue not to ... and you're willing to break it off rather than see where things will go there. You said yourself that it's not fair.

I don't know why you're posting all the rationalizations that you have - maybe you feel guilty for wanting to 'test the waters' ... maybe there is more to the J thing than you are letting on (I'm not accusing, just saying) ... whatever - it's obvious you've decided on your course of action when you say something like: "Meanwhile, on the J front, I think business as usual for now. I don't think I'm doing anything wrong by just talking to her. I might and that's a big might, try to discreetly find out if there would be anything between us, without taking any actions that would be considered unfaithful." If you were truly, truly committed to your relationship with your girlfriend, such a thought would never enter your mind.

Here is MY definition of unfaithful - if you can't tell your partner that you are doing it - it is unfaithful. Plain as can be. Would you go to her and say, "So I'm going to ask J if she is interested in me because I think she might be better than you?"

Didn't think so.

ETA: You're really picking nits over the having to visit her family over the holidays thing, in my opinion. There is no way it is unreasonable for her to expect/want you to celebrate the occasions you are quoting with her and her family, were you committed to this relationship. Maybe I'm not reading it right and maybe you didn't explain it properly, but I don't understand why visiting at these times is a problem. My friend has a very similar situation with his in-laws - in fact, I'd say it's worse, because they are openly hostile towards him - but he tolerates it because he loves his wife.

For what it's worth I thought the same thing when reading the conclusions novel. Interesting thread and cool for someone to post it and with the advice may come a few seemingly harsh comments, but what they lack in nice they make for in honesty. Some people, especially when they are young just hang on to relationships, and all the while have a million reasons why hanging on is the right thing. To be honest, you can't say that you are completely upfront about J, just becuase you don't have an actual relationship with you IMing her all the time, you are consumed by her ... and you haven't told the gf. You haven't told your gf that from what I can tell, so to be perfectly honest I don't think you have been completely upfront.

And Antithesis, I totally disagree on the parents thing. I think it's admirable for your friend to deal with openly hostile inlaws, but it's remarkably selfish that his wife to put him in that situation ... presuming they really are married. If you are married your spouse is #1, parents are #2 ... and that never wavers. If my parents were out of line with the life, the parents would get a talking to, and if there is still a problem they'd get cut off.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by fotze

I would probably punch my parents in the face if they were like that, they wouldn't get a second chance, good thing my parents aren't evil. Usually parents like that have something that they are contrlling the child with, like money/big inheritance.

yep or insecurities, I've seen it in other peoples relationships, it's kinda like the parents never grew up to be adults.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by gallione11

My current plan of action, is at some point in the near future, when I can find a good time and method to go about it, is talk to my GF. Not about J, but about the rather large doubts I have, and see if there's a way to work through it or not. It's very difficult for me to do something like this, however. I know the results could end up in a lot of hurt, and I really don't like hurting people, especially those that don't really deserve it. Meanwhile, on the J front, I think business as usual for now. I don't think I'm doing anything wrong by just talking to her. I might and that's a big might, try to discreetly find out if there would be anything between us, without taking any actions that would be considered unfaithful. Or maybe even just get confirmation of what my GF suspects. I don't know.

I reread your conclusions post and had one other thought for you.

The words you use suggest to me that it would be unhealthy for you to think of yourself as a long term relationship guy. I go back to a previous post and say probably more of a medium term relationship guy. Again, not an insult, at 25 very very few people are ready for life long relationships, or that they nessesarily should be a long term relationship person. The only thing that is bad is to try and shoehorn long term relationships from things that really shouldn't be long term.

Things like "when there is a good time" translates into I know I should but I don't want to deal with something at this moment ... because what circumstances have to exist to qualify as a good time? A good time is as soon as possible.

The results of a chat resulting in hurt is not a reason to not have the chat right away. The only thing worse than having a bunch of issues is to ignore those issues. No matter what, those issues will manifest themselves somehow, it's just that the longer you wait the worse that manifestation will be.

Lastly trying to read smoke signals from J if there is anything between you means:
1) you have checked out of your relationship, just a matter of when / how you decide to handle that.
2) you are cheating on her ... paying a hooker for a BJ is less impactful to a relationship than living with someone and testing the waters with someone else.

Sorry dude, don't want to be harsh, but it may be good to hear. Another idea for you would be to talk to people who are in a successful marriage, tell them everything you have said about the situation, and then cut and paste your 'novel' and see what they say.

[gallione11]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

For what it's worth I thought the same thing when reading the conclusions novel. Interesting thread and cool for someone to post it and with the advice may come a few seemingly harsh comments, but what they lack in nice they make for in honesty. Some people, especially when they are young just hang on to relationships, and all the while have a million reasons why hanging on is the right thing. To be honest, you can't say that you are completely upfront about J, just becuase you don't have an actual relationship with you IMing her all the time, you are consumed by her ... and you haven't told the gf. You haven't told your gf that from what I can tell, so to be perfectly honest I don't think you have been completely upfront.

And Antithesis, I totally disagree on the parents thing. I think it's admirable for your friend to deal with openly hostile inlaws, but it's remarkably selfish that his wife to put him in that situation ... presuming they really are married. If you are married your spouse is #1, parents are #2 ... and that never wavers. If my parents were out of line with the life, the parents would get a talking to, and if there is still a problem they'd get cut off.

Fair point, but like many have said, it's not really the best thing to talk about, especially if nothing ever happens. I mean, if I told her everyone I thought was attractive, or was at least somewhat interested in, she'd be running in a heartbeat. If it ever gets to the point that things will happen with J by whatever circumstances, I will not do so when I am still with the GF. I will not do that to someone -- I've had it done to me twice, and that makes a breakup so much worse. I've told her before if you ever get tempted to cheat, and you are going to go through with it, break up with me first. And know full well, that you don't get a second chance. It stands to reason the the reverse is true as well. I wouldn't expect a second chance, not would I deserve it.

On the family thing, like I said above, I agree. Even if you are not married, but in a rather serious relationship, significant other comes first, family second.*

*Excepting of course, emergencies and such. But for rudeness and hostility, good bye family.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by LeftWing

This is by far the best advice in this thread.

Originally Posted by LeftWing

... Except for this.

HAHAHAHAHA.

I would say absolutely don't tell your girlfriend. You might feel like telling her to clear your guilty conscience, but all that is going to do is dump the bad feeling from you onto an innocent party. It's up to you to deal with it on your own and decide if you should stay or go. That's a tough question to answer, but make sure you don't cheat yourself and stay just because that's the easiest route. Make sure if you stay it's because she's right. If this whole thing has made you realize she's not right, you should leave her and it shouldn't matter if J ends up wanting to be with you or not, as you'll be better of single than in a relationship going nowhere.

[Winsor_Pilates]

I think you have the right plan.

Alot of people are saying take your GF out and don't look back, but maybe she's not the right one for you. Take your time and think it through more. You don't owe it to your GF to stay with her, you owe it to her to be honest. If leaving is the honest thing to do, then you may have to do it.

Just try not to let J be the deciding factor with your current GF. If your current relationship is or isn't gonna last long term, you need to decide that regardless of J.

You may end up without either girl and that would be ok too. If the current one's not right, you will find another J or K or L along the way.
Treat it as a 2 step process.
step 1)Sort out your current relationship
step 2)Sort out the J situation
don't jump to step 2 until you're sure about step 1