Thirtysomething to Thirtynothing

[Dion]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

Article hits kind of close to home. And Firefly's/others testimony of her success with her BA doesn't exactly make me too enthusiatic for the future for myself when I graduate in 4 weeks.

Definately not where I pictured myself at 25

When I graduated from college in the mid 80's the economy was in the tank and I couldn't get a job in my field. What I ended up doing had nothing to do with my education. Sure it sucked, but I made the best of what I had. It wasn't a great job, still it paid the bills.

Maybe i'm different from most, but a career doesn't define who I am.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Dion

When I graduated from college in the mid 80's the economy was in the tank and I couldn't get a job in my field. What I ended up doing had nothing to do with my education. Sure it sucked, but I made the best of what I had. It wasn't a great job, still it paid the bills.

Maybe i'm different from most, but a career doesn't define who I am.

Very true, well put. And with age and maturity, most will come to realize that how much money you have does not define who you are either.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Originally Posted by HelloHockeyFans

One outrageous expectation I find from upcoming university grads is that once they graduate, they'll have an awesome 70K/year job right away. I've gotten to know a few recruiters on a more personal level and they've all told me that many new, fresh graduates out of university, when asked what the minimum salary they would take is, answer with 60K... sadly, most of these people end up waiting for that job that will never come, until they adjust their expectations to something a little more realistic, which to them, when it happens, is quite shocking.

Totally agree with you. I've had a co-op position on my team for 4 years, and worked with new grads for 5 years before that while articling for my CA. In the past, 1st year salary was about $35K, while the average non CA accounting salary was more like $45-50. Instant hate from many new grads who figured they'd try and drink their lost wages back from the firm at any function.

Worst of all, is the "I'm a Jr Executive" mentality the Business Schools are promoting. I also blame shows like the Apprentice. I find many grads have this expectation they're going to be doing cool exotic stuff at high wages right out of the gate. Much to their horror, they'll learn they're at the bottom of the totem pole when I get them to do goomba work. That sense of working to get somewhere just isn't there in many new grads.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by redforever

Very true, well put. And with age and maturity, most will come to realize that how much money you have does not define who you are either.

Exactly! Money isn't always a gaurentee of happiness.

Choose a career that you will be happy doing day in and day out.

Far too often a career is chosen on the basis of how much money they can make.

[Sparks]

"Generation Me"? Well, that's nice, isn't it? Are we sure we don't want to call the consumeristic, self-obsessed baby boomers "Generation Me" instead? You know, while we're generalizing?

It seems people like to point fingers at younger people and shake their heads. I've done it myself. And I'm sure I'll do it even more when I'm old.

That said, anyone my age who expects anything on a silver platter is just an idiot. The good news is that life will hammer that home if they don't smarten up on their own.

On a more serious note, thanks for your post Redforever - fantastic stuff. You summed up what I was going to say better than I could.

Frankly, you have more in common with the people in that photograph, now your grandfathers and grandmothers, than you might think . . . . .

Really minor point, but for the majority of the people on this board, those people would almost certainly be our parents, not grandparents.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Dion

What about the rich/upper class families in this city that can afford to spoil their kids rotten? Go buy a HS parking lot and look at the vehicles some teens are driving today.

Sure, but this thread isn't about rich kids being spoiled, its about this generation having a greater sense of entitlement/narcissistic tendancies than last generation. I'd wager spoiled brats in the 50's weren't that different than spoiled brats now.

You can't point out spoiled brat Paris Hilton and say 'she represents today's youth'... I could just as easily find some rich young moron from the 50's and say the same.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Sure, but this thread isn't about rich kids being spoiled, its about this generation having a greater sense of entitlement/narcissistic tendancies than last generation. I'd wager spoiled brats in the 50's weren't that different than spoiled brats now.

You can't point out spoiled brat Paris Hilton and say 'she represents today's youth'... I could just as easily find some rich young moron from the 50's and say the same.

You can't point out spoiled brat Paris Hilton and say 'she represents today's youth'... I could just as easily find some rich young moron from the 50's and say the same.

Isn't the article guilty of what you are accusing me of?

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Dion

Isn't the article guilty of what you are accusing me of?

A) I'm not 'accusing you' of anything, I'm saying (repeatedly) that you can't use Paris Hilton as an example of this generation arbitrarily. I could just as easily find the same type of person in a different generation and draw the same conclusion.
B) I didn't say I agree with the article... I think its pretty much just an opinion piece, you agree or you don't.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

A) I'm not 'accusing you' of anything, I'm saying (repeatedly) that you can't use Paris Hilton as an example of this generation arbitrarily. I could just as easily find the same type of person in a different generation and draw the same conclusion.
B) I didn't say I agree with the article... I think its pretty much just an opinion piece, you agree or you don't.

What I described was my experiences from my work situation and used Paris Hitlon as a comparison. Those were the teens and young adults I had contact with. Using a work experience hardly qualifies as me saying the whole generation is like that.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Dion

What I described was my experiences from my work situation and used Paris Hitlon as a comparison

Yep, that's pretty much what I'm talking about... I don't see the comparison between your co-workers and Paris Hilton... or either of those things to broad factual generalizations about this generation.

Those were the teens and young adults I had contact with. Using a work experience hardly qualifies as me saying the whole generation is like that.

I don't think single person is really qualified to objectively make these kinds of conclusions... that's why I'm not really a fan of the article.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Yep, that's pretty much what I'm talking about... I don't see the comparison between your co-workers and Paris Hilton... or either of those things to broad factual generalizations about this generation.

The comparison is in the attitude they showed. I managed a night shift and these co - workers came from upper class families. A lot of them had cars their parents bought them. In a short period of time it was apparent they had no work ethic. They'd miss a shift to spend a night in bar and made no apologies about it. If they lost the job, no problem, mommy and daddy will support them.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Dion

The comparison is in the attitude they showed. I managed a night shift and these co - workers came from upper class families. A lot of them had cars their parents bought them. In a short period of time it was apparent they had no work ethic. They'd miss a shift to spend a night in bar and made no apologies about it. If they lost the job, no problem, mommy and daddy will support them.

And you believe this might be a different attitude than spoiled brats held 30 years ago? Now they're super-brats? I don't really see how a few lazy teenagers at Safeway is indicative of a lazier/entitled generation compared to the previous one.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Dion

The comparison is in the attitude they showed. I managed a night shift and these co - workers came from upper class families. A lot of them had cars their parents bought them. In a short period of time it was apparent they had no work ethic. They'd miss a shift to spend a night in bar and made no apologies about it. If they lost the job, no problem, mommy and daddy will support them.

10 or 15 years ago when I was working "Safeway Night Shift Equivalent" jobs, the exact same thing happened. It wasn't necessarily rich kids with nice cars either, but young people in general, myself included. If I missed a shift I would lie about it instead of being unapologetic though.

[octothorp]

The measurements have changed, but has the quality of life? Is anyone in our generation actually prohibited from doing the things that our parents did at the same age? So we have kids later, rent rather than own, change jobs frequently, and accumulate debt. The actual living of life has not really changed that much. Perhaps this is the problem: we tend to be listening to all these depressing stats and using them as a way of quantifying our own lives.
If you absolutely must quantify your success, it's far better to do it against your peers than against your parents. Maybe you don't have nearly the financial freedom that your parents did, but it's probably pretty close to the average situation of people your age.

It's also puzzling to me that almost all of the supposed experts interviewed in this piece are women. I think that the tendency is for men to carry on pretty much as we always have; facing the same crossroads and conflicts as our fathers. The roles, expectations, and self-images of women have changed drastically over the last couple generations, and I think they're more likely to feel a sense of panic over what they imagine as undeveloped personal lives.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

And you believe this might be a different attitude than spoiled brats held 30 years ago? Now they're super-brats? I don't really see how a few lazy teenagers at Safeway is indicative of a lazier/entitled generation compared to the previous one.

The attitude is about the same.

What I see today is those spolied brats being spoiled a lot more than the ones I grew up with in the early 80's.

[halibut]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

This only makes too much sense. My generation will be the end of civilization. I've met too many people my age that need to be reminded that all they are is 1 of 6 Billion people on Earth and nothing more.

It's closer to 7 billion now.

[flamesfever]

Thanks Redforever, as an oldie I also enjoyed and appreciated your post.

I think the 20 to 30 year olds in North America are exposed to a number of traps and developed a number of mindsets that tend to keep them poor. Of course these things were present in the past, but not to the degree that they are today.

1. Rampant consumerism. It always amazes me when I see crowds, at Walmart and the various malls, spending like crazy. It's like they have lost their feeling for the value of money. The constant bombardment by advertising in the mass media is certainly doing its job. A sudden drop in housing prices may slow things down, as in the US.

2. The throw away mentality. "If it's old, throw it away." I tried to give away a perfectly good set of dishes to some needy young couple for $2.00 at a garage sale. No dice, they'd rather spend several hundred dollars on a new set. I blame this on the planned obsolescence in many of the products these days, especially the high tech items like printers, faxes, etc.

3. "Live for today and to hell with tomorrow." I can see this attitude coming from all the doom and gloom like global warming, pollution, nuclear war, etc. I believe you have to have faith in the future.

4. One upmanship. "He who dies with the most toys is the winner." If you want to create wealth, the bulk of your investment should go on things which you can enjoy while you are alive and which appreciate with time (although remember - timing is everything).

5. Easy money. I blame financial institutions for making it too easy to get money. Credit cards are a scourge. If you can't pay off the balance each month, don't have one.

6. Debt. "Why should we wait to have the American Dream?" North Americans are more in debt than ever before. It seems the upper limit of acceptable debt has risen to an alarming rate. It said on the news last night that anyone under the age of 35 has never experienced a major recession in their lifetime. I know from experience that the good times never last forever. Keep an eye on interest rates.

7. Eating out. "I've worked hard all day and deserve a good meal prepared by someone else." One can save much money by cutting down on this.

8. "If I don't get my University degree, I won't earn that extra million dollars in my lifetime." I always told my kids to find something they were passionate about doing and do it to the best of their ability, whether it involves going to University or not. In so doing they will create a market for their services, and they will probably be never out of work. Hard work is the secret of success, and I think we learn who we are through our work.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

I hope you are wrong. These stupid shows can't last forever, can they? People will eventually get tired of watching Average Joe making an Average Fool out of himself. I hope.

I find it kind of mind-buggering that so many people of a certain age believe it's possible to get rich and famous by going on a reality TV show.

There have been thousands, tens of thousands, of people on those reallity shows. I don't live in a cave, but I can only think of two people who's name I actually remember -- one of them because he went to the slammer for not paying taxes on the winnings. The other guy gained notoriety for being a dork. If this is what "youngsters" are hoping for out of life, we could be in for a bumpy ride.

I think there are some reality shows like "So You Think You Can Dance" that are culturally significant in providing excellent examples of young people with tremendous work habits and dedication applying great talent to a love of their craft.

Its actually a heartening show to watch in terms of giving you confidence about the future.

Reality TV can also mean "Megastructures" where you're watching some very interesting and ingenious engineering issues being resolved.

I actually have no problem with reality TV. Even the Kardashians is really a story about brand-building and creating an empire out of thin air.

The Housewives Of New York or Jersey Shore . . . . . plain ridiculous. There's the downside.

If you're basing your lifestyle choices and career path on "Jersey Shore" you've got big problems anyway. The notion that television or movies are negative influences on youth is as old as the vacuum tube.

EDIT: Narcissism on the rise in America, article in NewsWeek a few weeks ago: http://www.thedailybeast.com/newswee...n-america.html

Cowperson

[chemgear]

Interesting to note this thread considering where household debt has gone since . . .

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by I-Hate-Hulse

Worst of all, is the "I'm a Jr Executive" mentality the Business Schools are promoting. I also blame shows like the Apprentice. I find many grads have this expectation they're going to be doing cool exotic stuff at high wages right out of the gate. Much to their horror, they'll learn they're at the bottom of the totem pole when I get them to do goomba work. That sense of working to get somewhere just isn't there in many new grads.

I couldn't stand this mentality when I was in business school only a couple of years ago. People would think they're going to start out at mid-to-high level positions right away because the economy was so hot. "I'm going to work for Price Waterhouse as a junior associate", or "I'll be in charge of a stock portfolio at Goldman Sachs" they would say, with a huge narcissistic tone in the their voice, almost as if to one-up their peers on which company was more eager to smell their poop.

Positions like "Junior Investment Analyst?" or "business consultant", or anything other arbitrary name they would assign to a paid internship or entry-level position was really just coffee-running and doing admin tasks for a large chunk of it. Then people wonder why they want a career switch in their late 20's already, of which I am seeing numerous examples of now. The delusions of 'glamour' that accompanied these ideal positions (supplemented by a continual waxing from their parents of how great they could be in these positions) was not healthy for recent grads. People are getting burned out, depressed, and having quarter-life crises when in reality, it should be the most exciting time of your life.