Medicine Hat pedophile murders 12 year old girlfriend's family

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Delgar

These crimes are so sickening that no punishment short of never seeing the light of day again is suitable.

I'd be quite happy if she never saw the light of day.

It's a shame we don't have the death penalty anymore.

[CrusaderPi]

Originally Posted by FireFly

I don't know... she'll be out when she's 19 and will have had a lot of time to think about what life will be like with no one to lean on. I'm thinking that in this situation, with the ultimate goal being her reform and to be a contributing member of society, I'm okay with the sentence. Only time will tell if she actually does reform, but I'd suggest that a 25 year sentence would harm her more than anything... at least at 19 she still has the ability to learn skills and do something with herself when she gets out rather than being a bitter, middle aged woman.

She'll have time to think about it? Is that was passes for punishment in this country (since we know it isn't about deterrence)? Basically she has been given a timeout and will be allowed out of the corner in time for her to act like an idiot young adult.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by CrusaderPi

She'll have time to think about it? Is that was passes for punishment in this country (since we know it isn't about deterrence)? Basically she has been given a timeout and will be allowed out of the corner in time for her to act like an idiot young adult.

Well if she has 25 years to think about it, that makes it a punishment? She's a kid who screwed up royally. You think she doesn't know that? You think 25 years would be better so by then shes an angry, pissed off, 38 year old bitch who has no hope of doing anything with her life? That would make what she's done go away somehow?

It's not about deterrance OR punishment in this country, it's about reform and rehabillitation. 25 years does neither of those things.

[Jagger]

Originally Posted by FireFly

You think 25 years would be better so by then shes an angry, pissed off, 38 year old bitch who has no hope of doing anything with her life? That would make what she's done go away somehow?

It's not about deterrance OR punishment in this country, it's about reform and rehabillitation. 25 years does neither of those things.

The trouble with this from my perspective is that her parent's and little brother are not afforded the opportunity that she is. Her brother was 7 years old for pete's sake. Why is it fair that she as a 'reformed' killer is given the chance to do something with her life but he isn't? There is no rehabillitating him. Yeah, I'm sure she knows it was wrong. I'm sure she knew it was wrong before doing the crimes too. That really doesn't matter. I'm sorry but I have no sympathy for somebody like this. It was a completely ruthless and heartless crime. I simply cannot feel compassion for this individual, regardless of her age.

edit: Sorry for the small text. Not sure what happened there.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Jagger

The trouble with this from my perspective is that her parent's and little brother are not afforded the opportunity that she is. Her brother was 7 years old for pete's sake. Why is it fair that she as a 'reformed' killer is given the chance to do something with her life but he isn't? There is no rehabillitating him. Yeah, I'm sure she knows it was wrong. I'm sure she knew it was wrong before doing the crimes too. That really doesn't matter. I'm sorry but I have no sympathy for somebody like this. It was a completely ruthless and heartless crime. I simply cannot feel compassion for this individual, regardless of her age.

edit: Sorry for the small text. Not sure what happened there.

Ah, so destroying another life is justice. That makes it all okay then. I'm fairly certain her life will not be easy regardless. She could try to atone for her crimes though. Keeping her in jail will not allow her to do that either.

[PYroMaNiaC]

Originally Posted by Jagger

I'm sorry but I have no sympathy for somebody like this. It was a completely ruthless and heartless crime. I simply cannot feel compassion for this individual, regardless of her age.

She's 13 years old! No normal 13 year old does this crime. The wires are not connecting.

I have a 14 year old girl who makes poor decisions fairly regularily. That's the nature of 14 year old girls. We do the best we can to correct the behaviour, show her the possible consequences, and allow her to make a better choice the next time. Sometimes it doesn't happen the way we would like and we try again. Sometimes, more often lately, it does and she gets triumph of her accomplishment.

Now, there has never been anything even sort of remotely close to this magnitude. This is WAY beyond anything I can even understand or imagine. If, however, she made a choice with this terrible, horrific, tragic outcome, I would like someone to have compassion.

That doesn't mean I feel that this girl should be let off easy. And this doesn't express how I feel about her sentence. I'm not convinced that 6 years is enough. And it doesn't mean I feel empathy for her. But I can have compassion for a child, any child, that now faces a past and a future that may be long and bleak.

[octothorp]

I certainly don't feel sympathy for her (sympathy and compassion are overrated forces in our justice system), and generally I feel that people don't change their stripes, with few exceptions. Yet she still has some formative time ahead of her and is likely a better candidate for rehabilitation than most murderers; certainly moreso than her boyfriend. Rehabilitation is only part of the equation as certainly punishment needs to play a role in the judicial system, and in the case of any young offender, balancing those two priorities is difficult. A verdict like this pisses me off at first as it's so light on punishment, but if there's any chance that this girl can be rehabilitated, I imagine that's what her family would want.

[CaptainCrunch]

I would be fine with the penalty if this wasn't such a cold hearted crime. She basically particapted in the planning, involved her friends in trying to cover it up, and to top if off she stabbed her youngest brother.

Make no mistake here, this isn't a girl that made a mistake or a bad decision, she's a killer plain and simple, and this is where the YJA is failing society.

She's no better then Karla Homolka, except she got an earlier start, but she's the same kind of personality, and nobody here was calling for a light sentence for her.

Hopefully the crown appeals this sentence, somebody has to speak for the dead.

[Ford Prefect]

If she ever has any kids of her own, it would be interesting to hear what she tells them about why they don't have any grandparents on her side of the family. That will be part of her punishment too, whether she tells them the truth or not.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by FireFly

Ah, so destroying another life is justice. That makes it all okay then. I'm fairly certain her life will not be easy regardless. She could try to atone for her crimes though. Keeping her in jail will not allow her to do that either.

I understand what your saying, but she planned this crime, she tried to involve her friends in covering up, and tried to shift the blame to her boyfriend (who is going to probably get the max sentenc).

do you really think she's earned a light sentence. I'd rather reserve those for people that truly made a mistake. She didn't make a mistake, her plan went off without a hitch.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I would be fine with the penalty if this wasn't such a cold hearted crime. She basically particapted in the planning, involved her friends in trying to cover it up, and to top if off she stabbed her youngest brother.

Make no mistake here, this isn't a girl that made a mistake or a bad decision, she's a killer plain and simple, and this is where the YJA is failing society.

She's no better then Karla Homolka, except she got an earlier start, but she's the same kind of personality, and nobody here was calling for a light sentence for her.

Hopefully the crown appeals this sentence, somebody has to speak for the dead.

Perfect summation!

Well stated!

[Dion]

Originally Posted by FireFly

Ah, so destroying another life is justice. That makes it all okay then. I'm fairly certain her life will not be easy regardless. She could try to atone for her crimes though. Keeping her in jail will not allow her to do that either.

So, Paul Bernardo should be allowed to atone for his crimes too?

Justice is not served by keeping him locked up?

[Jagger]

Originally Posted by FireFly

Ah, so destroying another life is justice. That makes it all okay then. I'm fairly certain her life will not be easy regardless. She could try to atone for her crimes though. Keeping her in jail will not allow her to do that either.

No, nothing makes this sordid crime "okay". It's far from ok. It's despicable, hateful, and sickening in the extreme. This young person planned this murder from the outset. She really does deserve what she gets and then some. I don't see why we should feel bad because her life will not be easy now. Are you kidding me? I don't know her name, do you? She could move anywhere in the country after her sentence and not be known. Yes, she will have to live with what she's done and that is the how it should be. She should suffer for her crime. The dead deserve justice not just a rehabilitated killer.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I understand what your saying, but she planned this crime, she tried to involve her friends in covering up, and tried to shift the blame to her boyfriend (who is going to probably get the max sentenc).

do you really think she's earned a light sentence. I'd rather reserve those for people that truly made a mistake. She didn't make a mistake, her plan went off without a hitch.

I think I have a different understanding of the crime than you do... my understanding is that the boyfriend was the one who encouraged the whole thing, not the other way around. She said "I loved him and I thought it would bring us closer together"... there's a lot of stupid stuff I've done in the name of 'love' and it was generally encouraged by the other party. Even instigated by the other party. Now, I'm not trying to say she isn't guilty at all. That's not it at all. (I accept full responsibility for the things I did which were encouraged by others, and so should she.) However, she's still young and impressionable. She has the opportunity to change. Throwing the book at her will not help her do that, it will make her more angry.

She tried to get her friends to help her cover up? Wouldn't you?! Did you ever steal anything as a kid and had your friends help you get away with it? Different scope certainly, but same principle. Whenever I got in trouble as a kid, I most certainly blamed my brother. Whever I went into a store to steal a chocolate bar, I did so with a group of friends to help cover up what was going on. As a kid, you expect to be able to count on your friends to help you out of rough spots, and if they aren't willing to help, you blame others because you don't want to get into trouble. It's what kids do.

Do I think she's earned a light sentence? No. But I also think knowing that you've killed off your entire family is a sentence in itself. Her plan didn't go off without a hitch... she's going to jail for a very long time. In addition, by statements made, I think when they got to her brother, she realized the scope of what was going on and wanted to stop. She said she couldn't do it (kill him) and gave him a non life-threatening wound. I think at that moment she wanted out. She probably would have let her entire family live if it wasn't for the boyfriend... she didn't actually kill any of them.

I don't think she deserves a 'light' sentence, but I do think she deserves a second chance. I guess I'm just a bleeding heart.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Dion

So, Paul Bernardo should be allowed to atone for his crimes too?

Justice is not served by keeping him locked up?

Do you not see the difference between a fully functional grown adult and a child who is still learning their way through life?

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Jagger

No, nothing makes this sordid crime "okay". It's far from ok. It's despicable, hateful, and sickening in the extreme. This young person planned this murder from the outset. She really does deserve what she gets and then some. I don't see why we should feel bad because her life will not be easy now. Are you kidding me? I don't know her name, do you? She could move anywhere in the country after her sentence and not be known. Yes, she will have to live with what she's done and that is the how it should be. She should suffer for her crime. The dead deserve justice not just a rehabilitated killer.

Everyone in Medicine Hat knows her name. Although she'll get a new name anyways when she gets out, just like Karla did.

Tell me, what purpose would be served by her spending 25 years in jail?

[Dion]

Originally Posted by FireFly

Do you not see the difference between a fully functional grown adult and a child who is still learning their way through life?

I see two cold blooded killers who knew exactly what they were doing.

I have zero sympathy for that teenage girl. She made her choices in life and must deal with the consequences of her actions.

3 innocent lives were snuffed out. They don't get a second chance.

A 7 year old boy will never know what it's like to go on a date, get married, etc.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by FireFly

I think I have a different understanding of the crime than you do... my understanding is that the boyfriend was the one who encouraged the whole thing, not the other way around. She said "I loved him and I thought it would bring us closer together"... there's a lot of stupid stuff I've done in the name of 'love' and it was generally encouraged by the other party. Even instigated by the other party. Now, I'm not trying to say she isn't guilty at all. That's not it at all. (I accept full responsibility for the things I did which were encouraged by others, and so should she.) However, she's still young and impressionable. She has the opportunity to change. Throwing the book at her will not help her do that, it will make her more angry.

She had as much to do with encouraging and planning this act as he did. She told her friends that she hated her parents and wanted them dead. She went to her friends to help her carry out the plan, and also involved her boyfriend in that action to. She also didn't try to stop the killings, or call the police to stop it. instead after the killings she took off with her boyfriend and had sex with him. Going by the trial reports, this girl sounds as cold and self centered as they come. The sentence is a joke. Her little brother that she stabbed dosen't get a chance at life. Her parents who tried to protect her from that scuzz bag didn't deserve it.

This wasn't some crime of passion, she had plenty of time to stop this, but she planned it, watched natural born killers with her boyfriend and went ahead with it.

Maybe I'm not as forgiving or as good of a person as you, but the fact that she got a very short jail term for what I consider to be a pre-mediated mass murder is very wrong.

Originally Posted by FireFly

She tried to get her friends to help her cover up? Wouldn't you?! Did you ever steal anything as a kid and had your friends help you get away with it? Different scope certainly, but same principle. Whenever I got in trouble as a kid, I most certainly blamed my brother. Whever I went into a store to steal a chocolate bar, I did so with a group of friends to help cover up what was going on. As a kid, you expect to be able to count on your friends to help you out of rough spots, and if they aren't willing to help, you blame others because you don't want to get into trouble. It's what kids do.

Maybe I was raised different, but I would never use my friends to cover up any crime. That in itself shows what kind of a person she is. Sure she was 12 or 13, but at that point A) You know that murder is wrong no matter what B) Getting her friends to commit a felony crime shows me that she's a little sociopath that is no different from the kids that raped that woman down in the states, then forced her son to rape his mother, then poured cleaning detergent in his eyes. This girl is to me evil, pure and simple. Is she redeemable, maybe, but 6 years isn't punishment enough.

Even though people keep telling me that jail terms should be about rehabilitation and making someone a member of society, punishment has to be more then rehabilitiation or deterent, its about absolute punishment, and this sentence is not punishment.

We'll probably end up paying for this little darlings education, and courses on how to fool the parole boards.

Originally Posted by FireFly

Do I think she's earned a light sentence? No. But I also think knowing that you've killed off your entire family is a sentence in itself. Her plan didn't go off without a hitch... she's going to jail for a very long time. In addition, by statements made, I think when they got to her brother, she realized the scope of what was going on and wanted to stop. She said she couldn't do it (kill him) and gave him a non life-threatening wound. I think at that moment she wanted out. She probably would have let her entire family live if it wasn't for the boyfriend... she didn't actually kill any of them.

If this was a crime of passion, or a crime in the moment, I might agree with you. However she planned it, she had sex with the creep afterwards, and continued to communicate with him afterwards. There's no guilt there. She's not sitting there crying about her crime, this was all about her. Her greed, her self centeredness, her. She's pulled a fast one on the judge who looked at a 12 year old girl and tossed her a life csentence.

I also don't buy the non life threatening role. If she wanted out of this crime, she could have prevented it long before it started, she could have called the police and confessed afterwards if she was so gosh darned sorry. She fricken stabbed her brother, I don't care if it was life threatening or not. She encourage a sick pedophile that they should kill her family because they were interfering in a sick relationship. She planned it, she tried to clean up the mess, she tried to enlist her friends to help her cover it up. There's no guilt there.

Originally Posted by FireFly

I don't think she deserves a 'light' sentence, but I do think she deserves a second chance. I guess I'm just a bleeding heart.

I believe she deserves a second chance in 20 years or so. I'd even be ok, if they had a 20 year sentence but gave her a faint hope possibility.

But this sentence shows why the justice system in Canada is blind, to society and the victims.

[Jagger]

Originally Posted by FireFly

Everyone in Medicine Hat knows her name. Although she'll get a new name anyways when she gets out, just like Karla did.

Tell me, what purpose would be served by her spending 25 years in jail?

The purpose for serving time is that she planned and carried out a vicious, hateful crime. There's no going back. A 7 seven year old, her own brother, will never experience anything that life has to offer. He got much longer than a 25 year sentence and he is the VICTIM. Her parent's were snuffed out. They have no second chances. Honestly, why should she? And please don't think me heartless. I have three small children and am a very compassionate, caring person to those that deserve it. The murdering daughter is the heartless one and it truly bothers me that some people are already seemingly feeling sorry for her. What about the victims?

[FireFly]

I'm sure I told my friends I wanted my parents dead when i was a kid too. Heck, I even planned out the perfect murder. Lock me up and throw away the key!

She's 13, FRY THE LITTLE BIOTCH!