Justice for an idiot driver

[Cube Inmate]

There's another point about speed limits that you young asshats are missing: the person driving 80 on Deerfoot is potentially a hazard to those approaching from behind, whereas the one driving 130 is a hazard to those ahead. In case you've never noticed, your eyes are mounted on the front of your head, which generally faces forward while driving. While a good driver may be aware of everything going on in front and behind, it's simply not possible to be *as* aware of a danger approaching from the rear as danger approaching from the front.

It's ridiculously easy to be caught unaware by a very fast driver approaching from behind. You (the fast driver) may be completely aware of what's going on in front of you, but the relationship is not reciprocal.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Cube Inmate

There's another point about speed limits that you young asshats are missing: the person driving 80 on Deerfoot is potentially a hazard to those approaching from behind, whereas the one driving 130 is a hazard to those ahead. In case you've never noticed, your eyes are mounted on the front of your head, which generally faces forward while driving. While a good driver may be aware of everything going on in front and behind, it's simply not possible to be *as* aware of a danger approaching from the rear as danger approaching from the front.

It's ridiculously easy to be caught unaware by a very fast driver approaching from behind. You (the fast driver) may be completely aware of what's going on in front of you, but the relationship is not reciprocal.

Two points:

1. You have a rear-view mirror for a reason and one should be aware of what's behind them... not as well as in front, obviously, but they should still know. If you see a quickly moving vehicle, one is supposed to move to the slower lane, and let the cops deal with the young asshat or male menopausal 40/50 something or lead footed soccer mom. Thats what we learned in driver education all those years ago.

2. That 130km/hr driver is assuming that everyone else is obeying the speed limit of 100km/hr (assuming optimal conditions)... since that dufus is doing 80km/hr, they are making themselves a dangerous slow moving object on the road. Not that I'm defending the 130km/h driver... i never do that in the city myself... but that 80km/h driver is ALSO a danger and just as guilty of being a self-centered asshat. (again, assuming optimal conditions)

[ken0042]

I think you just made the arguement for both sides, CI.

As a speeder; I only have to worry about the traffic in front of me- the direction my eyes are pointing. If I were to go too slow, then I have to worry about speeders coming up behind me. And because I know that I have above average driving skills, I know that I should be more worried about the people I can't see behind me, as opposed to me being worried about the people in front of me that I can see and use my above average skills to avoid.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Cube Inmate

There's another point about speed limits that you young asshats are missing: the person driving 80 on Deerfoot is potentially a hazard to those approaching from behind, whereas the one driving 130 is a hazard to those ahead. In case you've never noticed, your eyes are mounted on the front of your head, which generally faces forward while driving. While a good driver may be aware of everything going on in front and behind, it's simply not possible to be *as* aware of a danger approaching from the rear as danger approaching from the front.

It's ridiculously easy to be caught unaware by a very fast driver approaching from behind. You (the fast driver) may be completely aware of what's going on in front of you, but the relationship is not reciprocal.

It's rediculously easy to be caught unaware of a slow motorist pulling into your lane just ahead of another car (Slow can also be interpreted as going 80 vs. my nice, legal, and safe 100 km/h). Your arguement has a nice 'they didn't physically see it coming' emotional component to it but there still is no reasonable justification for going either 80 or 130 on the Deerfoot in good road conditions.

[Cube Inmate]

Okay T'ball: I'm driving @ 85 in an 80 zone, in the right lane. Somebody's following me at the same speed. I see someone going 75 ahead of me, so I plan to make a lane change and go around him... check left mirror--lane's clear...check rearview mirror--guy behind me isn't changing lanes...shoulder check...signal...change lanes. Safe, right? Nope! Asshat going at 110 cruised up behind us in the same lane and blew into the passing lane while I was making my move.

Should I have seen him? Nope. Hidden behind other traffic. Should he have seen me? If he's got eyes in the front of his head, you bet your ass he should have. He should also *expect* that others will be going slower...if he can't handle that, then he shouldn't be going so damn fast.

Rearview mirrors are small; You can't control what people do behind you. You can, on the other hand, control the space in front of you and you should be able to see everything important going on for hundreds of metres. If you can't understand the difference here, then just let me know which roads you frequent and I'll change my route.

[Cube Inmate]

Originally Posted by ken0042

I think you just made the arguement for both sides, CI.

As a speeder; I only have to worry about the traffic in front of me- the direction my eyes are pointing. If I were to go too slow, then I have to worry about speeders coming up behind me. And because I know that I have above average driving skills, I know that I should be more worried about the people I can't see behind me, as opposed to me being worried about the people in front of me that I can see and use my above average skills to avoid.

Well damn...you're right! All you have to do is ensure that you're the fastest person on the road, and then you can just rip your mirrors right off!

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Cube Inmate

Okay T'ball: I'm driving @ 85 in an 80 zone, in the right lane. Somebody's following me at the same speed. I see someone going 75 ahead of me, so I plan to make a lane change and go around him... check left mirror--lane's clear...check rearview mirror--guy behind me isn't changing lanes...shoulder check...signal...change lanes. Safe, right? Nope! Asshat going at 110 cruised up behind us in the same lane and blew into the passing lane while I was making my move.

Should I have seen him? Nope. Hidden behind other traffic. Should he have seen me? If he's got eyes in the front of his head, you bet your ass he should have. He should also *expect* that others will be going slower...if he can't handle that, then he shouldn't be going so damn fast.

Rearview mirrors are small; You can't control what people do behind you. You can, on the other hand, control the space in front of you and you should be able to see everything important going on for hundreds of metres. If you can't understand the difference here, then just let me know which roads you frequent and I'll change my route.

We're working with different variables here, the argument was someone going well under the speed limit v. well over the speed limit, to which we (should) both agree are dangerous.

You are absolutely right... in that scenario... because we were assuming the asshat speeding lacks the foresight/control to avoid impact with you... he may very well have seen you starting to change lanes and slowed to 85... but that was not quite the scenario we were discussing. To make it more in line with what I assumed we were discussing the pitfalls of... if that car in front of you was doing 55 in an 80 zone, you're doing a reasonable 85, and that passing car was doing 115... who was really more dangerous? In a way... all of you.

You were the least dangerous, but still were to a degree for losing patience with the moron doing 55.
The dufus doing 55 was dangerous for creating a situation where it is dangerous for anyone else to do anything and impeding the flow of traffic.
The asshat doing 115 was dangerous for being a human bullet.

[Cube Inmate]

Ok... I got my point out, whether it's accepted or not.

To conclude, I can say only this: the only way to drive safely is to assume that every other driver on the road IS an asshat, one way or another.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Cube Inmate

Okay T'ball: I'm driving @ 85 in an 80 zone, in the right lane. Somebody's following me at the same speed. I see someone going 75 ahead of me, so I plan to make a lane change and go around him... check left mirror--lane's clear...check rearview mirror--guy behind me isn't changing lanes...shoulder check...signal...change lanes. Safe, right? Nope! Asshat going at 110 cruised up behind us in the same lane and blew into the passing lane while I was making my move.

Should I have seen him? Nope. Hidden behind other traffic. Should he have seen me? If he's got eyes in the front of his head, you bet your ass he should have. He should also *expect* that others will be going slower...if he can't handle that, then he shouldn't be going so damn fast.

Rearview mirrors are small; You can't control what people do behind you. You can, on the other hand, control the space in front of you and you should be able to see everything important going on for hundreds of metres. If you can't understand the difference here, then just let me know which roads you frequent and I'll change my route.

Say that car behind you is a truck and you're a car on a flat road. He wouldn't see you just as you couldn't see him in your rear view due to the truck between you two. Also you're talking about doing 85 in an 80 zone as opposed to doing 80 in a 100 zone like everyone else is talking about. Yeah speeding is unsafe, no one is arguing that it is safe. We're only arguing that going too slow for the flow of traffic (plural as in more than one asshat on the road) is also unsafe. Using Deerfoot as an example the left lane primarily goes at 120. Yes those in the left lanes are unsafe and illegally speeding, but once again your job is to navigate our roads as safe as possible which means staying away from danger (Ie those in the left hand lane speeding.)

[Bobblehead]

I think the issue comes down to weaving.

Following a white knuckle drive going 10-20 clicks below the limit, you can see the drivers following getting fed up then doing what the need to (sometimes dangerously) to get around that person. Especially if they are in the "fast lane". On the other hand, the speeder is often forced to switch lanes so that they can maintain this speed.

Both behaviours involve weaving, and both are dangerous. Just go with the flow.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Cube Inmate

Ok... I got my point out, whether it's accepted or not.

To conclude, I can say only this: the only way to drive safely is to assume that every other driver on the road IS an asshat, one way or another.

###

I never feel safe riding with a driver who assumes everyone around them will do the right thing.

[ericschand]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

###

I never feel safe riding with a driver who assumes everyone around them will do the right thing.

It's not my driving I'm worried about when on the road. It's everyone else.

ers

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Bovine fecal matter.


Speed limits are designed to accomidate the lowest common denominator.

100 on Deerfoot on a nice day is like walking.
Ditto for 80 on Glenmore, Sarcee, Stoney Tr, Crowchild...

Agreed. The only reason to do the limit on those roads is because going the same rate of speed as the rest of traffic is safer. That said, the safest speeds are probably 110 on Deerfoot and 90 on the others, as if you are going the limit there is a speed differential between you and the rest of traffic.

[ericschand]

You can speed all you want, but really the time you save is very little.

Let's say you are on Deerfoot and have a 15km drive.

@100km/h it would take you 9 minutes
@110 : 8m 10s
@120 : 7m 30s
@130 : 6m 55s
@140 : 6m 25s

So, for the difference of 2m 35s, it is worth it to speed, perhaps cause
an accident, perhaps pick up a speeding ticket, perhaps pick up other
tickets? Is that 2:35@140 really going to make a huge difference on
your 45 minute trip around town?

ers

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

Agreed. The only reason to do the limit on those roads is because going the same rate of speed as the rest of traffic is safer. That said, the safest speeds are probably 110 on Deerfoot and 90 on the others, as if you are going the limit there is a speed differential between you and the rest of traffic.

I once heard that (at least in Alberta) the speed limits are 10-15km/h below what the roads are actually designed for. The idea is that the speed limit keeps drivers within the safety limitations of a said road since most people are likely to drive between 0 and 15km/h over a speed limit regardless of enforcement. So even though they are "speeding" and have the psychological benefit of that, they are not technically moving at a dangerous speed for that road.(And is also a primary reason why police tend to spot people 9km/h before handing out tickets).

I can't verify the accuracy of this claim, but it makes a lot of sense.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by ericschand

Is that 2:35@140 really going to make a huge difference on
your 45 minute trip around town?

ers

I thought you said the 2:35 time saving was on a 9 minute trip; as opposed to a 45 minute trip. On a 45 minute trip you are now talking about saving almost 13 minutes.

[Barnes]

Driving is pretty simple.

Keep up with the flow of traffic. If you can't, don't use the road.

Be predictable when driving. You're not the only one out there.

If you miss a turn, take the next one.

A merge is not a yield. You do you honestly think your going to be able to merge when you're going 20km/h slower than traffic.

When merging have some balls. They will make room.

On free flowing roads, the left lane is for passing. Don't drive in it.

You don't have to pass me just to go the same speed.

No random highway breaking.

Don't be a ######.

[ericschand]

Originally Posted by ken0042

I thought you said the 2:35 time saving was on a 9 minute trip; as opposed to a 45 minute trip. On a 45 minute trip you are now talking about saving almost 13 minutes.

I'm talking 45 min trip, with 15km of it on Deerfoot. Rest is tied up sitting
on 16th or Southland or somewhere.

Vip

[Frank the Tank]

Originally Posted by Barnes

A merge is not a yield. You do you honestly think your going to be able to merge when you're going 20km/h slower than traffic.

Good god. I got stuck behind a guy doing this while trying to get on the QEW when we were leaving Oakville Saturday night. So dangerous. Get through the sharpest part of the curve of the on ramp and hammer it people!! Its not rocket science!!

[Jagger]

Under any scenario that has been mentioned here the speeder is the most dangerous person in that situation period. I've taken numerous defensive driving courses with relation to my job and speed really does kill. There are no excuses for it and, to be perfectly honest, some of the comments here are downright scary if not altogether unexpected given what I see out there.

Cube Inmate has made, without doubt, the most sensible comments I've read on this thread.