Really the last word on the election

[lucid]

That first map is turning into the "Help a hockey player" e-mail... I've lost track how many people have sent it to me!

And then there's the Sorry Everybody website.

[Incinerator]

Originally posted by Agamemnon+Nov 5 2004, 06:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Agamemnon @ Nov 5 2004, 06:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Hmmm, I was raised Catholic and never heard that other Christians don't consider Catholics as Christians. Since "Christian" only means "followers of Christ", I don't see how they can deny it. The problem many non-Catholics have with Catholicism is the idea of the "Trinity", and the veneration of the Virgin Mary. Some people who do not understand the concepts feel that Catholicism in not monotheist.

I agree with the second part though. Catholics are often unfairly painted as hardcore fanatics which really isn't the case. They take their religion seriously, but are not nearly as confrontational or militant as some protestant groups; like Puritans and Southern Baptists who make up much of the conservative Christian crowd.

I recently found out dating a pretty fundamental protestant chick that my Catholicism meant I was going to hell (despite the fact that I'm far from a believer). Apparently a lot of us living in the backwoods corner of the world (Alberta... Canada) forget about some pretty deep historical divides between Protestants and Catholics. Even Kennedy was called a Papist and people believed he would take orders from the Pope.

Catholic is a dirty word to a whole lot of other Christian denominations. Not too surprising they wouldn't consider 'us' true-Christians. [/b][/quote]
Catholics don't consider Christians as true followers of Christ, and most Christians thinks Catholics are too backwards and radical.

[Igottago]

Originally posted by arsenal+Nov 5 2004, 04:56 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (arsenal @ Nov 5 2004, 04:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Flame On@Nov 5 2004, 10:09 AM
reducing crime by banning most types of guns

I agree with some of what you said, but I completely disagree with this. You forget that most criminals are criminals for a reason. Banning a firearm for use by an educated law abiding citizen, will not keep said firearm from the hands of a criminal. If you want a firearm, you will get a firearm. Which is why things like the gun registry are dumb. No one is going to register an illegal gun, which is the point of the gun registry.

Also, there are lots of other weapons available. If you do happen to get rid of all gun, you would see a sharp increase is crimes commited using knives, or bats or what other weapon seems to be available. [/b][/quote]
But shouldn't you make it as hard for people as possible? I mean, I'd rather have someone come at me with a bat than a gun...at least I'd have a somewhat improved chance of survival..

[Thunderball]

I hate to rip that joke too, but there's no way if all those States left "Jesusland" that it would be the United States of Canada... it would still be the US of A... wishful thinking guys.

[Flame On]

Originally posted by Thunderball@Nov 5 2004, 03:47 PM
I hate to rip that joke too, but there's no way if all those States left "Jesusland" that it would be the United States of Canada... it would still be the US of A... wishful thinking guys.

To me that seems like quite an obnoxcious remark. Am I the only one?

[arsenal]

Originally posted by Igottago+Nov 5 2004, 04:44 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Igottago @ Nov 5 2004, 04:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

I agree with some of what you said, but I completely disagree with this. You forget that most criminals are criminals for a reason. Banning a firearm for use by an educated law abiding citizen, will not keep said firearm from the hands of a criminal. If you want a firearm, you will get a firearm. Which is why things like the gun registry are dumb. No one is going to register an illegal gun, which is the point of the gun registry.

Also, there are lots of other weapons available. If you do happen to get rid of all gun, you would see a sharp increase is crimes commited using knives, or bats or what other weapon seems to be available.

But shouldn't you make it as hard for people as possible? I mean, I'd rather have someone come at me with a bat than a gun...at least I'd have a somewhat improved chance of survival.. [/b][/quote]
The whole point is that if you are purchasing or obtain an illegal gun, for the purpose of committing a crime, no amount of legislation is going to stop you. Legislation only covers the guns that the governement knows about. Not the ones they don't know about.

[Flame On]

Originally posted by arsenal+Nov 5 2004, 04:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (arsenal @ Nov 5 2004, 04:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

But shouldn't you make it as hard for people as possible? I mean, I'd rather have someone come at me with a bat than a gun...at least I'd have a somewhat improved chance of survival..

The whole point is that if you are purchasing or obtain an illegal gun, for the purpose of committing a crime, no amount of legislation is going to stop you. Legislation only covers the guns that the governement knows about. Not the ones they don't know about. [/b][/quote]
It also stops as many guns being in the system from which to purchase illegally. It also makes it easy to take on a charge if even found with one under inspection by police. Kinda hard to confiscate one if it's illegal. I'd rather a flawed system and a few criminals get there guns taken away and it's harder to obtain them than just hold up our hands and say, ok it doesn't work. Use what ever you want.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally posted by FlamesAddiction@Nov 5 2004, 03:50 PM
South of Nebraska and north of Oklahoma.

What's the gray mean anyway?

I'm not sure, but I think it might mean that everything isn't counted yet. There were a large number of provisional votes in the county 8000+ and the arena issue is still not officially passed for that reason.

I like our 5000 vote cushion though.

and just between you and me....when I posted the assuming you know which one is Kansas part....you weren't somebody I thought might not know. :wave:

[nfotiu]

Originally posted by Displaced Flames fan+Nov 5 2004, 03:32 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Displaced Flames fan @ Nov 5 2004, 03:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Mike F@Nov 5 2004, 01:23 AM

Are you saying that there is no truth to the stereotype that the "red states" are more religious? Because there is a reason both sides refer to much of the south as the Bible Belt.

People's Exhibit A

And in particular

There is no 1:1 correspondence, but the overall trends are revealing.

That's not what I said.

I'm saying there is no truth to the popular belief on this site that this country is full of fanatical Christians. Full to the point that they dominate society. [/b][/quote]
After spending the last 3 years in NC, and VA, I'd have to disagree. I mean there is a strong contingent of non-religious/less-religous, but the Babtists definitely dominate society in both places. They make the rules, they run the satanic influences out of town, make sure evolution is not taught in school, make sure none of the kids are reading Harry Potter you name it. I enjoy living here, but it is definitely something you have to learn to put up with.

[Thunderball]

Originally posted by Flame On+Nov 5 2004, 05:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Flame On @ Nov 5 2004, 05:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Thunderball@Nov 5 2004, 03:47 PM
I hate to rip that joke too, but there's no way if all those States left "Jesusland" that it would be the United States of Canada... it would still be the US of A... wishful thinking guys.

To me that seems like quite an obnoxcious remark. Am I the only one? [/b][/quote]
... looks like it.

All I said is 100 million odd people are not gonna join Canada, its more like us joining them... and that comment is definitely not as obnoxious as all the "The US is gonna split up" and "The US is going to hell in a handbasket" and "all the Democrats will join Canada." US Dems are more like the modern Canadian Conservatives than the Liberals...so maybe we should merge with them so that the Liberals will get punted for good.

Come on, some people recognize this as a joke, but some people wear this crap like a badge of honor. I think its a very safe bet that our country falls apart long before the United States.

[arsenal]

Originally posted by Flame On+Nov 5 2004, 05:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Flame On @ Nov 5 2004, 05:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

The whole point is that if you are purchasing or obtain an illegal gun, for the purpose of committing a crime, no amount of legislation is going to stop you. Legislation only covers the guns that the governement knows about. Not the ones they don't know about.

It also stops as many guns being in the system from which to purchase illegally. It also makes it easy to take on a charge if even found with one under inspection by police. Kinda hard to confiscate one if it's illegal. I'd rather a flawed system and a few criminals get there guns taken away and it's harder to obtain them than just hold up our hands and say, ok it doesn't work. Use what ever you want. [/b][/quote]
Last time I check, narcatics where pretty illegal. You can pick those up in any major city. Even the smaller ones. If you know a drug dealer, the chances are he will know how to get a gun.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

arsenal that is entirely correct, in fact when I have looked at the gun control legislation, it really doesn't make any sense other than the fact that it can inconvenience someone so much so that they decide to turn in their gun rather than register it, and that can limit the number of spur of the moment, I was p*ssed off at my wife type of gun murders. Although as you pointed out, there are many other ways of killing someone.

Just think of it this way if that murderous bitch in Calgary that shot her abusive husband something like 5 times and then stands over his dying body and says "I hope you die" can get a gun on the street, anyone can

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally posted by arsenal@Nov 6 2004, 02:41 AM
Last time I check, narcatics where pretty illegal. You can pick those up in any major city. Even the smaller ones. If you know a drug dealer, the chances are he will know how to get a gun.

So what's the argument about keeping narcotics illegal then? The one I always here is that if they made them legal, there would be even more of them on the street. If that is a legitimate argument, then surely the same principle applies to guns.

I would like to see some hard data about countries where guns are legal, and countries where they are illegal and compare it. I also heard before that most guns that are illegally purchased were at one time purchased legally by someone else and stolen. If true, that would mean that legal gun sales are partly responsible for crimes committed by black market guns.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by Mean Mr. Mustard@Nov 5 2004, 08:45 PM

Just think of it this way if that murderous bitch in Calgary that shot her abusive husband something like 5 times and then stands over his dying body and says "I hope you die" can get a gun on the street, anyone can

This is the strangest thing I've come across in a while. What case are you talking about?

[Thunderball]

Originally posted by RougeUnderoos+Nov 5 2004, 11:30 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (RougeUnderoos @ Nov 5 2004, 11:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Mean Mr. Mustard@Nov 5 2004, 08:45 PM

Just think of it this way if that murderous bitch in Calgary that shot her abusive husband something like 5 times and then stands over his dying body and says "I hope you die" can get a gun on the street, anyone can

This is the strangest thing I've come across in a while. What case are you talking about? [/b][/quote]
I believe he is referring to the Dorothy Joudrie case that happened a while ago

[arsenal]

Originally posted by FlamesAddiction+Nov 5 2004, 08:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (FlamesAddiction @ Nov 5 2004, 08:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-arsenal@Nov 6 2004, 02:41 AM
Last time I check, narcatics where pretty illegal. You can pick those up in any major city. Even the smaller ones. If you know a drug dealer, the chances are he will know how to get a gun.

So what's the argument about keeping narcotics illegal then? The one I always here is that if they made them legal, there would be even more of them on the street. If that is a legitimate argument, then surely the same principle applies to guns.

I would like to see some hard data about countries where guns are legal, and countries where they are illegal and compare it. I also heard before that most guns that are illegally purchased were at one time purchased legally by someone else and stolen. If true, that would mean that legal gun sales are partly responsible for crimes committed by black market guns. [/b][/quote]
Those are valid arguments. But it still isn't going to keep guns out of the hands of people that want to get them. Just like, current anit-drug legislation isn't keeping drugs out of the hands of people that want them. What it will do, is lower the rate of murders/crimes of passion where firearms are involved. But that wont lower the rate of murders/crimes of passion. They will just use what is handy. IE: Axe, butcher knife, golf club, etc.

Yes, legal guns which are purchased and stolen do add to the problem. OTOH I don't beleive that there is a huge black market for weapons right now, but it still exsists. Which IMO is a good thing. There is already a huge black market for narcotics, and the drug lords are getting stupid rich off of. You make guns illegal, you are going to make a huge black market for guns. They will get shipped over (in greater numbers, as i am sure it already happens) from other countries to be sold illegally. You are just going to make the bad guys richer. And when the bad guys have the guns, and you don't, bad guys win.

[Mike F]

Originally posted by arsenal+Nov 6 2004, 01:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (arsenal @ Nov 6 2004, 01:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> And when the bad guys have the guns, and you don't, bad guys win. [/b]

Yes, because as we all know there are stories on the news every day where homeowners are winning machine gun battles with criminals trying to steal their silverware.

<!--QuoteBegin-arsenal @ Nov 6 2004@ 01:34 PM
But that wont lower the rate of murders/crimes of passion. They will just use what is handy. IE: Axe, butcher knife, golf club, etc.[/quote]

I can just see it now: a group or young kids is mowed down by a gang driving by and hurling golf clubs from their car

[Displaced Flames fan]

Would that be a drive by driving?

[Mike F]

Originally posted by Displaced Flames fan@Nov 6 2004, 02:09 PM
Would that be a drive by driving?

My uncle spent time in prison for being the driver in a drive-by driving