By-election results

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by Zarathustra

This is hilarious. You are simply grasping at straws and looking for conflict. Please do yourself and me a favour, and relax. This is a message board, you really don't need to get so defensive. I'm not even going to address your emotional driven points for it will only get you more upset. I however, will leave you with a few simple truths that any logical rational person would agree upon.

People move to bigger towns and cities to become educated. Unlike America, there are very few "college towns", and in most cases the respected universities are found in the big city. Educated people find better paying jobs in the city. Educated and intelligent are not exclusively synonymous, but any reasonable person would agree that it takes a certain level of intelligence to get a university degree.

There is a reason small towns get smaller and big cities bigger. Please, think more and use less emotion when debating, it will help you a lot. I can see that you are relatively intelligent yourself, but allowing emotion and personal bias to seep into your logic flaws it slightly.

Wow ... I guess I've sure been told. Actually, I'm not looking for conflict. I just cannot let your unfounded and incorrect assertions about rural Alberta slide by unchallenged. You have not backed up any of your statements with anything remotely resembling fact or evidence.

I'm not really as upset you seem to think. I was more curious to see how you would defend your view points (note view points, not facts or truths). Unfortunately, you seem unable to do so.

One point you made above that I have to respond to is that there are in fact colleges and satellite university campuses in small town Alberta, amazing as that may seem. Plus, there are many web-based distance learning degree programs available, not only from Alberta universities, but also foreign universities from as far away as Australia and the UK. One does not have to go to a big city to receive a post secondary education.

You also make the claim that small towns are getting smaller. Check the latest census figures. That is not true. In fact, the fastest places in Canada are places like Cochrane, Sylvan Lake, and Strathmore. In fact, small towns all over Alberta are growing, not just those near large urban centres.

One more point I'd like to respond to ... I cannot be intelligent, as you asserted above. I am a third generation Albertan and currently reside in a small town. So by your definitions I'm double disqualified from possessing any intelligence. I actually chose to move back to a small town after 20 years of living in an enlightened city, so I'm really a basket case. (The preceding paragraph was meant as sarcasm, in case you have trouble identifying sarcasm.)

Out of curiousity, where are you from ... place of birth that is.

[Zarathustra]

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

One more point I'd like to respond to ... I cannot be intelligent, as you asserted above. I am a third generation Albertan and currently reside in a small town. So by your definitions I'm double disqualified from possessing any intelligence. I actually chose to move back to a small town after 20 years of living in an enlightened city, so I'm really a basket case. (The preceding paragraph was meant as sarcasm, in case you have trouble identifying sarcasm.)

The same pattern holds true throughout this post, and you continue to grasp straws, with this paragraph being the epitome. Throughout your post you came to understand the flaws in your own argument and started qualifying your opinion with weak examples, again lacking logic. Please, stop looking foolish.

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by Zarathustra

The same pattern holds true throughout this post, and you continue to grasp straws, with this paragraph being the epitome. Throughout your post you came to understand the flaws in your own argument and started qualifying your opinion with weak examples, again lacking logic. Please, stop looking foolish.

You are a real piece of work my friend. It is, however, time to practice catch and release. You are no longer amusing.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by Zarathustra

This is hilarious. You are simply grasping at straws and looking for conflict. Please do yourself and me a favour, and relax. This is a message board, you really don't need to get so defensive. I'm not even going to address your emotional driven points for it will only get you more upset. I however, will leave you with a few simple truths that any logical rational person would agree upon.

Mr. Educated (read: elite) looking down his nose at someone. Nice.

People move to bigger towns and cities to become educated.

Actually, people move to bigger towns and cities to find jobs. Big difference.

Please, think more and use less emotion when debating, it will help you a lot.

Mr. Elite showing himself again.

I see a real bias against people in a rural setting. I've lived my whole life in Calgary, but I do know and appreciate those living in the countryside. They are a lot smarter than you give them credit for, and are educated in many different ways than you'd ever know.

[V]

That was one of the worst attempts at a debate that I've ever seen. Sliding from accepted fact to logical assertion to completely abandoning the point. I'm impressed, Zara.

[McG]

i forget. maybe someone can remind me.

are there many places to deploy your agriculture degree in downtown?

of course, if i was in step with the arguments in this thread, i would assume that all of the highly educated albertans (what with alberta being one of the highest educated provinces) live in cities.

a shame all of those vet and medical degrees don't live in the country. i'm sure that they could use some of them right smart edumacated people.

[Azure]

Cowperson lives in the country....is he uneducated too?

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Azure

Cowperson lives in the country....is he uneducated too?

The plural of anecdote is not "data".

While there are certainly educated people living in rural areas and moronic people living in cities, Zarathustra's point (even if he didn't pick the best words with which to express it) is entirely valid. A greater percentage of people with higher education live in urban areas than rural communities by a ratio of over 2-to-1.

As of 2001, 19.0% of urban Canadians had a university degree compared to only 8.3% of those residing in rural zones.

http://www.rural.gc.ca/research/profile/nat_e.phtml

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

While there are certainly educated people living in rural areas and moronic people living in cities, Zarathustra's point (even if he didn't pick the best words with which to express it) is entirely valid. A greater percentage of people with higher education live in urban areas than rural communities by a ratio of over 2-to-1.

"As of 2001, 19.0% of urban Canadians had a university degree compared to only 8.3% of those residing in rural zones."

Are university degrees the only kind of education that are worthwhile? What about SAIT, MRC, Olds College, etc? Useless as far as being "educated"?

I'll extend this to "formal education"... Is this the only way to be "educated"?

Zarathustra's point was that unless you're "educated" then you're hickish and only go with the old-boy's club. This is not valid what-so-ever. You've just chosen to pick up one small part of his point and run with it.

[McG]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

The plural of anecdote is not "data".

While there are certainly educated people living in rural areas and moronic people living in cities, Zarathustra's point (even if he didn't pick the best words with which to express it) is entirely valid. A greater percentage of people with higher education live in urban areas than rural communities by a ratio of over 2-to-1.



http://www.rural.gc.ca/research/profile/nat_e.phtml

Were there any statistics for Alberta only? Albertans have a much higher average education than many other provinces.

[McG]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

The plural of anecdote is not "data".

While there are certainly educated people living in rural areas and moronic people living in cities, Zarathustra's point (even if he didn't pick the best words with which to express it) is entirely valid. A greater percentage of people with higher education live in urban areas than rural communities by a ratio of over 2-to-1.



http://www.rural.gc.ca/research/profile/nat_e.phtml

This is one of the problem with quoting statistics. Here is the entire paragraph:

Educational Attainment
A marginally higher percentage of rural and small town Canadians than urban Canadians had earned a post‑secondary certificate or diploma in 2001 (28.5% compared to 27.8%). The urban population surpassed rural Canadians, however, in the highest educational category. As of 2001, 19.0% of urban Canadians had a university degree compared to only 8.3% of those residing in rural zones. Within rural Canada, residents in Strong MIZ zones were the most likely to have earned a certificate, diploma, or degree from an institution of higher learning (39.9%) and No MIZ residents were the least likely (30.1%). The nation‑wide trend of decreasing educational attainment as metropolitan influence decreases also generally applies to the provinces and territories.

So, while it is indeed correct that a university degree is over 2 to 1 urban to rural, rural dwellers have a higher post secondary certificate or diploma than urban dwellers. Trends being what they are...and this study being 6 years old...who knows what the actual numbers really are?

Unfortunately, the study needs to provide more detailed statistics so that internet debates (such as this one) can be accurately resolved.

btw, i loved your quote about the plural of anecdote not being data. that is a great quote. nicely put.

[Slava]

The plural of anecdote is not "data".

True, and hilarious on so many levels!