The exodus begins

[Red]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

The problem is though, even a place for 250-350 is completely unaffordable for a person like myself. I make about 50,000 a year, but being a single income guy, I can't afford anything in Edmonton, let alone Calgary. I dropped the ball by not buying something last year...anything.

I agree, paying a $1500 morgage can't be fun.
I remember when I bought my first house 6 figure mortgages were considered huge, mine at $82K was a hefty one. Now people are looking at getting 4X that and I don't think many people take home 4X the money they did in the early to mid 90s.

It's rough out there, no doubt about it. I have two boys and and I'd like to get them started out for when they are old enough, but at these prices I can neither justify it or afford it. The one option is to buy 2 houses in Winnipeg now and hope that they will have enough value for a decent downpaymet in Calgary in 15 - 20 years

[Incinerator]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

The problem is though, even a place for 250-350 is completely unaffordable for a person like myself. I make about 50,000 a year, but being a single income guy, I can't afford anything in Edmonton, let alone Calgary. I dropped the ball by not buying something last year...anything.

Assuming you have a 5% downpayment (and if you don't you can borrow from family/your own RRSP), how can $1620 a month in mortgage payments be classified as unaffordable for a guy making $50K a year? (for a $250K property) As a single guy you can even rent out a bedroom or two to cover some expenses. It's cheaper than renting a 2 bedroom condo in downtown Calgary! Unless you got credit card debts up the wazoo.

Besides, if you're a single guy you can even lower your budget to below $250K since you'd only need 1 bedroom or even a studio bachelor suite will do. There are often inner-city bachelor pads for $210K or less if you bothered to look.

[metallicat]

50k before taxes...that is 2000 per month cleared. A 1620 mortgage payment is completely out of the question. Let alone the fact that the banks didn't qualify me for anything even CLOSE to that.

[Incinerator]

Originally Posted by Red

I agree, paying a $1500 morgage can't be fun.
I remember when I bought my first house 6 figure mortgages were considered huge, mine at $82K was a hefty one. Now people are looking at getting 4X that and I don't think many people take home 4X the money they did in the early to mid 90s.

It's rough out there, no doubt about it. I have two boys and and I'd like to get them started out for when they are old enough, but at these prices I can neither justify it or afford it. The one option is to buy 2 houses in Winnipeg now and hope that they will have enough value for a decent downpaymet in Calgary in 15 - 20 years

Depending where you are and what type of property you are in right now, I have a list of people who would give their left arm for that $1500 mortgage, if you actually have one. People do indeed take home much more than you think today vs. the mid 90s. Average homebuyer's individual income today is $60K, get a couple together that's $120K.

[Incinerator]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

50k before taxes...that is 2000 per month cleared. A 1620 mortgage payment is completely out of the question. Let alone the fact that the banks didn't qualify me for anything even CLOSE to that.

Like I said if you're single you should be looking at something smaller in size & $ figure. A couple making 50K each gross can manage that easy. And what the banks can't do the mortgage brokers will make it happen 90% of the time.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Incinerator

Assuming you have a 5% downpayment (and if you don't you can borrow from family/your own RRSP), how can $1620 a month in mortgage payments be classified as unaffordable for a guy making $50K a year? (for a $250K property) As a single guy you can even rent out a bedroom or two to cover some expenses. It's cheaper than renting a 2 bedroom condo in downtown Calgary! Unless you got credit card debts up the wazoo.

Besides, if you're a single guy you can even lower your budget to below $250K since you'd only need 1 bedroom or even a studio bachelor suite will do. There are often inner-city bachelor pads for $210K or less if you bothered to look.

1620 a month is nearly 20 grand a year. After taxes it's more than half the income of a guy making 50 grand a year. Tack on the other stuff (property taxes, condo fees, utilities) and that guy is spending a huge chunk of his income just on housing.

But you do have a point with the other stuff -- a single dude can get roommates, rent the basement out or get a cheaper place. But if he wants a modest house to himself, he's hooped. I know it.

[metallicat]

I'm not trying to derail this thread...honestly. But the bank qualified me for a mortgage of 180,000. Last year, I could have bought something such as a nice big condo in Edmonton, but I dropped the ball and didn't buy. This year, you absolutely cannot buy ANYTHING short of a mobile home for less than 180,000. It's actually depressing.

[TheyCallMeBruce]

$250k is a 2 bedroom condo (barely) these days. Condo fees are an average of $250. Property tax...yeah, that too.

Then you factor in some very conservative estimates on food ($300), gas ($400), car insurance ($100), and bills (like cellphone or cable/internet). You're basically living paycheck to paycheck.

It's almost impossible for a single guy making $50k to own property on his own. And what's sad to me is that $50k a year is no longer enough for comfortable living.

So oilers_fan, I really feel for your plight.

[Red]

Originally Posted by Incinerator

Depending where you are and what type of property you are in right now, I have a list of people who would give their left arm for that $1500 mortgage, if you actually have one. People do indeed take home much more than you think today vs. the mid 90s. Average homebuyer's individual income today is $60K, get a couple together that's $120K.

So the family income of 120K now would have to be like 30K back then. I think you could've made that at 7-11 back then. Can two people pull $120K at 7-11 now? Maybe 60? Remember, mortgages then were $400-$500, not $1500-$2500 That's a huge difference.

I can see that people make more money now than ever, but still, for most part people have lost touch with reality. When you are a young person with no equity then the $1500 morgage is a huge liability. What if life happens and you need to live off of one income? It better be a big one or you're in deep.....

Anyways, I was just trying to point out how times have changed in the last 15 years or so. Mentality has changed too, nowdays everyone needs a 2500 sq ft house with all the bells and whistles, after all, what's another $500 or $700 mortgage when you're already paying 2K a month. Can't imagine paying that much $$$ for all these years, yikes, that can buy you so much fun...20K a year gets you two great vacations a year plus all the toys you ever wanted (resonable of course). And people willingly pay that for the roof over their heads....tough life.

[urban1]

Median family income in Calgary is closer to $80,000. I dont have the most recent statcan #s handy but its somewhere around there.

Originally Posted by Red

So the family income of 120K now would have to be like 30K back then. I think you could've made that at 7-11 back then. Can two people pull $120K at 7-11 now? Maybe 60? Remember, mortgages then were $400-$500, not $1500-$2500 That's a huge difference.

I can see that people make more money now than ever, but still, for most part people have lost touch with reality. When you are a young person with no equity then the $1500 morgage is a huge liability. What if life happens and you need to live off of one income? It better be a big one or you're in deep.....

Anyways, I was just trying to point out how times have changed in the last 15 years or so. Mentality has changed too, nowdays everyone needs a 2500 sq ft house with all the bells and whistles, after all, what's another $500 or $700 mortgage when you're already paying 2K a month. Can't imagine paying that much $$$ for all these years, yikes, that can buy you so much fun...20K a year gets you two great vacations a year plus all the toys you ever wanted (resonable of course). And people willingly pay that for the roof over their heads....tough life.

[urban1]

http://www.cnw.ca/fr/releases/archiv...tml?view=print
Reality Bites: Generation Y Moving Home to Break Into the Real Estate Market

[Red]

Originally Posted by urban1

http://www.cnw.ca/fr/releases/archiv...tml?view=print
Reality Bites: Generation Y Moving Home to Break Into the Real Estate Market

I don't think you are allowed to paste the whole article here, some legal mambo jambo....

Just as I thought though, fun, fun, fun, nice car followed by wet dreams and house ownership just happens. No planning needed. That's how our younger generation thinks.

I was reading some job marketplace forums and found a bunch of soon to be graduates looking for 80K starting jobs with huge raises on the horizon. Reminds me of when I was in college and heard all those empty promises.
These kids are in for a surprise.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

But if he wants a modest house to himself, he's hooped. I know it.

Again, my old want vs. need arguement. If you are a single guy with a 50k income do you have a brother, or friend or parents you can partner up with to acquire a place. I mean as much as our society is based on self and making it on your own, theres no shame in looking for help. The really wealthy families often pass their wealth down from generation to generation.

[urban1]

Go to Vancouver and youll find 2 or 3 families living under one roof; whether its 2 generations or brothers/sisters. When housing costs are exceeding 70% of your income, theres no other way to do it.

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Again, my old want vs. need arguement. If you are a single guy with a 50k income do you have a brother, or friend or parents you can partner up with to acquire a place. I mean as much as our society is based on self and making it on your own, theres no shame in looking for help. The really wealthy families often pass their wealth down from generation to generation.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Again, my old want vs. need arguement. If you are a single guy with a 50k income do you have a brother, or friend or parents you can partner up with to acquire a place. I mean as much as our society is based on self and making it on your own, theres no shame in looking for help. The really wealthy families often pass their wealth down from generation to generation.

That's true and if it came down to it I'd go that route. Hell, I'd insist on it. But still, if a guy or gal can't get a down payment from dad or convince someone to sign a 25 year-contract with him, he's screwed.

I know a double-income couple who were bringing in about 55 grand net in 1999 and they were nervous about committing to a house that cost 140 grand. They bought it and are still there now and a few months ago the house next door sold for 400 thousand bucks. Their income has probably gone up by 30-40% in that time but the value of their house has well more than doubled. They'd be laughed out of the bank if they were to try to buy their own house now.

[photon]

Originally Posted by urban1

Median family income in Calgary is closer to $80,000. I dont have the most recent statcan #s handy but its somewhere around there.

I don't recall exactly what it is either, though I do recall that Alberta has the highest median family income of any province.

With over 70% of income going to home ownership in Vancouver, that's one of the reasons some people think Vancouver is unsustainable and is going to have a big correction, while Calgary is still at 45% last I saw (though it's probably over 50% by now).. still too high, but wages are increasing faster in Alberta than anywhere else too.

We're not at the top of housing prices, not yet.

[Incinerator]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Again, my old want vs. need arguement. If you are a single guy with a 50k income do you have a brother, or friend or parents you can partner up with to acquire a place. I mean as much as our society is based on self and making it on your own, theres no shame in looking for help. The really wealthy families often pass their wealth down from generation to generation.

I know a single person who makes less than that 50K a year just bought her own place with no help from anyone other than a 30K downpayment she saved up. Like I said you just have to know where to look and don't expect the moon. Asking price of the pad? Below $180K, no bidding wars, the place was sitting for at least a month before she bought it. Smack in the middle of downtown Calgary (i.e. not a trailer). Moral of the story? Don't believe everything they write in the paper.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Incinerator

I know a single person who makes less than that 50K a year just bought her own place with no help from anyone other than a 30K downpayment she saved up. Like I said you just have to know where to look and don't expect the moon. Asking price of the pad? Below $180K, no bidding wars, the place was sitting for at least a month before she bought it. Smack in the middle of downtown Calgary (i.e. not a trailer). Moral of the story? Don't believe everything they write in the paper.

Well I've been looking for a condo for sometime and haven't found anything like that. Kudos to your friend but let's not pretend that there are a lot of those type of deals out there.

[Incinerator]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Well I've been looking for a condo for sometime and haven't found anything like that. Kudos to your friend but let's not pretend that there are a lot of those type of deals out there.

I would say you haven't been looking hard enough or you were looking for something bigger then. I know of at least 3 similar places sold in the past 3 months.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Incinerator

I would say you haven't been looking hard enough or you were looking for something bigger then. I know of at least 3 similar places sold in the past 3 months.

How big a place did she get?