Suggestions to stimulate GM activity

[nyrcrisfer]

The UFA thing is tricky...

If we had more more players going to UFA every summer there would be more trading during the season. These UFA's would move from the bad teams to the good near the deadline. And the teams who are going to lose some players will make trades to strengthen their depth for next season.

But then again, once the finals are over there would be a lot less trading. Why would big names be traded in May or June when teams can wait until July 1st to see if they have a shot to land a good player or two without giving up any talent?

Overall I just think there's only so much trading that can go on. This league has a ton of trading and at some point most teams will just hit a wall. Either they can't improve because they don't have youth to trade or cap space available... or they can't "sell" because they don't have any vets that they don't want for the near future. Or some teams unfortunately just don't have many talented players that have value.

[Antithesis]

I'd like to ask something completely counter to what Rob has asked about the Cheese rule: why is there a limitation on the amount of money a team can trade away or trade for at all? I had a couple million in cap room left over but no Cheese rule room, which did hamper my ability to make some (not huge piles but some) moves. Why is there this constraint?

Looking at cap room, I think ideally it would be a case of "if you have it, you can trade it", but that's just me.

[Beerfund]

Originally Posted by Antithesis

I'd like to ask something completely counter to what Rob has asked about the Cheese rule: why is there a limitation on the amount of money a team can trade away or trade for at all? I had a couple million in cap room left over but no Cheese rule room, which did hamper my ability to make some (not huge piles but some) moves. Why is there this constraint?

Looking at cap room, I think ideally it would be a case of "if you have it, you can trade it", but that's just me.

I'll jump in here. The Cheese rule was added because some GMs felt it was unfair that Cheese would trade for players with big salary (also had good ratings) and a huge suitcase full of cash. By the end of the season his payroll was astranomical. Gms felt that it was unfair, so the limit was installed. The limit completely wiped out trading well before the deadline. Mostly because the cheese rule was not a net situation but an absolute value. ie we could trade away up to 12M in cap and trade for up to 12M in cap, the two were calculated independantly. Thus trading away 1m did not wipe out 1m traded for. The rule was changed to a "net cap movement" to a max of + or - 18M. That added better flexibility in trading.

So, lowering the cheese limit IMO would stiffle trading as GMs would then take a build internally mentality. Draft smart, develop and build talent. There would be no way to assemble talent quickly. But removing the limit also leads to GMs that amass a large stockpile of cash, tipping the scales to the point where other GMs can't compete.
Personally, I like the limit and I think we've found a good balance. Yes I had to make some moves to get myself with in the limits, that I would have not made if I could have just added more cash. But it does allow for more teams to stay competative.
If there are any changes, I would like to see the ability to move next season cap taken away. That way teams that amass players and salary commitments would be forced make those players available and create more opportunity for turn over as the seasons changed.

[MJK]

Protto, building a team like mine is easy you say? Who over the past two years has put more time and effort into their team than I have? Who is #1 in the CPHL right now? Who has been able to stay at #1 while having tons of great young assets? I have worked very very hard to get where I am and it was NOT easy. I took this team when they had just finished DEAD LAST, setting a CHPL record low for points in a season. In just over two years I kinda like what I have done with this team. If you goal isn't to have the best team and a farm load of prospects, what the heck is it!?!?

Let me finish by sayin this. People can speculate all they want as to why I am in the CPHL but to say the only reason is to "be the best" is a farce.

I like the challenge of building a solid team and prospect base at the same time, it is difficult to do and at least some GM's here appreciate that. I like talking strategy with GM's. I like experimenting with line combinations. The thing I like most, IT IS FUN!

Now that I have said what I needed to say, here is how we can generate more trading. It's easy and I have already mentioned some of this to Grant in the past.

#1 Fix the ratings. Right now 90% of the ratings are from 70OV to 80OV. Why not make it 65OV to 85OV or 60OV to 90OV. Spread the players out! Too many junk players with 70OV ratings are close to being scoring champs.

#2 Sim games earlier. I know it will be difficult but it does help trading. There is a reason why this year has been one of the worst ever for trading and it is becuase the games are now simmed later in the evening. Sim games earlier somehow and more GM's freak out and want to trade! It might sound silly but it's how it use to be!

[Antithesis]

I don't understand your point #2, Dave, the two don't seem to be related at all, but I don't have the body of knowledge of how the league works or its history to comment beyond that.

I don't see how the suggestion is constructive, either. I've been around long enough to see the complaining about games being simmed when they are on multiple occasions and what people need to understand is that personal lives do (and should) come first for the commishes who invest a great deal of time in this as is. There is simply nothing that can be done about this issue, at least, not until the people who run the league start getting paid to do so.

Based on my own experience of running a small league - 12 teams - for friends, I can unequivicolly say that the process of downloading lines, putting them in the sim (properly - so people don't gripe about THAT), doing the games, uploading the games, the roster files, processing the number of trades that happen in this league, posting about waived players, checking on the status of those players, etc, etc, etc, is very mundane and time-consuming, and it is a huge pain in the ass. It is an investment of -at least- 30 minutes a night. It is simply not a matter of popping on, opening some program, and poof, everything is done. Whether anyone else chooses to take my testimony on this matter to heart is one thing, but I guarantee you, it is true, and for the most part, the games are done at fairly regular times, and you can count the number of times games were not played at all - almost certainly for VERY valid reasons that are almost certainly none of our business - on one hand. That is to be applauded when you consider all of the factors I've discussed. Trust me when I say that the regularity of game simming and the stability of this league is an anomoly in the FHL community.

To bring this back on track, I would be really interested in matters that remove obstacles to trading that can be removed. As I said before, I currently have at least 2.0 million in salary cap room that I could have used in deals, but was unable to because of the limits of the Cheese rule. Thanks to Troy for the history lesson on the reasoning for this rule being the way it is, but I am wondering if this can be something that is open to discussion.

[HelloHockeyFans]

^

I agree Steve. I have no problems whatsoever with the time games are simmed and totally agree with you about the facts that this is a free game with KG, Grant, and Jeff doing all the work they do for free, during times which they could spend doing things more important in their lives.

A 7PM EST time for SIMing will not spark more trading than an 11PM EST time. Makes no difference IMO.

[MJK]

I know personal lives come first but thats not my point. A thread is started and I gave a suggestion. Let me spell it out easier for you.

I know of a dozen or so GM's who constantly check the site to see if games are simmed. When games are simmed earlier in the day, GM's sometimes decide to trade right away if they don't like the outcome. When games are simmed late, most gm's can't check until morning and then have to go to work. By the time they get home the loss has settled in and trading becomes less attractive.

I ain't complaining, IT's A SUGGESTION, one I am fully aware that might not be able to be solved for obvious reasons. Frig.

I traded a whole lot more when games were simmed early becuase I had the whole night ahead of me to be mad about a loss...so I would trade! I am not making this up, it happens.

[Goffie]

Originally Posted by MJK

I know personal lives come first but thats not my point. A thread is started and I gave a suggestion. Let me spell it out easier for you.
I know of a dozen or so GM's who constantly check the site to see if games are simmed. When games are simmed earlier in the day, GM's sometimes decide to trade right away if they don't like the outcome. When games are simmed late, most gm's can't check until morning and then have to go to work. By the time they get home the loss has settled in and trading becomes less attractive.

I agree with this, it is not a shot at any of the commishes by any means, the fact is and 2 other GM's just told me the exact same thing, if someone loses a game early in teh night, they are gonna be thinking about it while they are online and look to make changes. When people check it in the morning before work, they settle down and forget about it by the time they get home, and don't feel the urge to trade.

[notoepik]

I agree with Dave, not that it matters what my opinion is but simming done late does affect trading. I have been known to get so irritated at a player that he gets traded withing the next 30 mins. But when it is later, screw it, I just go to bed.

Sure it is hard when there are so many time zones to consider, but the majority lives in the Mountain time zone.

And sorry Steve, but I hate the *this is a free game card* To that I say "So What!" The GMs also put in a huge amount time on the teams, posts, lines etc. I also know first hand how much work it is to run a leauge. It takes time. Leagues need good solid leaders to do the work, and they have to WANT to do it. And for nothing. It must be done for the love of the game, because once you start to charge, you are then accountable to the wishes of those that pay you. Yes it is free, but the GMs that play with you are just as important as the guy that clicks the Run Games button. Success of the league takes both dedicated commishes and dedicated GMs.

[HelloHockeyFans]

Originally Posted by notoepik

I agree with Dave, not that it matters what my opinion is but simming done late does affect trading. I have been known to get so irritated at a player that he gets traded withing the next 30 mins. But when it is later, screw it, I just go to bed.

Sure it is hard when there are so many time zones to consider, but the majority lives in the Mountain time zone.

And sorry Steve, but I hate the *this is a free game card* To that I say "So What!" The GMs also put in a huge amount time on the teams, posts, lines etc. I also know first hand how much work it is to run a leauge. It takes time. Leagues need good solid leaders to do the work, and they have to WANT to do it. And for nothing. It must be done for the love of the game, because once you start to charge, you are then accountable to the wishes of those that pay you. Yes it is free, but the GMs that play with you are just as important as the guy that clicks the Run Games button. Success of the league takes both dedicated commishes and dedicated GMs.

Well, I'm guessing what Steve said which is getting missed here is that, the comment about the time that games are simmed was not too constructive:

Originally Posted by Antithesis

I don't see how the suggestion is constructive, either.

Didn't we go through something similar to the time games are simmed just like TWO WEEKS AGO?

"They'll get done, when they get done", is what the commishes said, and I think we should respect that, instead of continuously beating down the same door.

[notoepik]

Whatever Kev. I stick with what I said then

[Noops]

Is there a coles notes version of this thread???

Dont reduce the UFA age for players....it'll make most young guys pretty much worthless.

[KevanGuy]

On the topic of the games, Grant and I sim them as soon as we can and that wont change. Neither of us are going to leave work earlier just to sim the games. Also keep in mind that we live in Calgary, not Ontario. It is what it is. I know it was a suggestion Dave and I appreciate your frustration but that is the way it is.

And if the fact that this is just a free league isnt good enough for any of you I highly encourage you to leave.

[MJK]

NOOOB, you are missing the point. This isnt a crapping on commish thread it is a suggestion thread. I posted mine now deal with it.

[Flickered Flame]

Originally Posted by notoepik

And sorry Steve, but I hate the *this is a free game card* To that I say "So What!" The GMs also put in a huge amount time on the teams, posts, lines etc. I also know first hand how much work it is to run a leauge. It takes time. Leagues need good solid leaders to do the work, and they have to WANT to do it. And for nothing. It must be done for the love of the game, because once you start to charge, you are then accountable to the wishes of those that pay you. Yes it is free, but the GMs that play with you are just as important as the guy that clicks the Run Games button. Success of the league takes both dedicated commishes and dedicated GMs.

I don't agree with all of this Becky. Sure GMs have some work to do but its nothing compared what the commishes have to do. As for GMs, we currently have GMs that hardly exist, they never post, they rarely make trades, and when they do they make a couple and then you don't hear from them for like another month.

[HelloHockeyFans]

Originally Posted by MJK

NOOOB, you are missing the point. This isnt a crapping on commish thread it is a suggestion thread. I posted mine now deal with it.

No, YOU'RE missing the point (as usual).

Yes, it's a suggestion thread, but what's the point in suggesting something that's been covered before? TWO WEEKS BEFORE?

That's the point. Passively-aggressively throwing out a "suggestion" is neither constructive or bright.

[MJK]

Originally Posted by HelloHockeyFans

No, YOU'RE missing the point (as usual).

Yes, it's a suggestion thread, but what's the point in suggesting something that's been covered before? TWO WEEKS BEFORE?

That's the point. Passively-aggressively throwing out a "suggestion" is neither constructive or bright.

Because there is a ton of time before next season starts. It was a good suggestion if I do say so myself. Why not get Flambers to do some games during the week? Hrmmmm, it is something that can be discussed during the off season isn't it?

I am not missing any point, just thinking outside of the box here. Yes, it was covered but not entirely.

[HalifaxDrunk]

Umm, I don't have any suggestions.....

I like the league as is, this may be because I am not a trading dynamo. When I make deals they seem to be on the large side, I get players I like and for the most part stick with them and just juggle lines.

Chances are that any changes made will not encourage me to move players more, but thats just me. If the league doesn't like my lack of trading activity give me the boot, I doubt I'll change.

I enjoy opening game day threads and watching the stats and standings.

Posting silly things is probably my favorite thing to do...BTW have you checked out Old Peg Leg's Biography? LINK

[HalifaxDrunk]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

The game becomes one of just setting lines and watching the sim spit out its drunken results.

I like the sound of that with the playoffs looming!

[notoepik]

Originally Posted by Flickered Flame

I don't agree with all of this Becky. Sure GMs have some work to do but its nothing compared what the commishes have to do. As for GMs, we currently have GMs that hardly exist, they never post, they rarely make trades, and when they do they make a couple and then you don't hear from them for like another month.

You missed my point too. I don't feel it is right asking people to play a game with you ,then when they ask a question or lend a suggestion you don't like, tell them it is a free game, go ahead and leave it you don't like it. We all VOLUNTEER our time here. My point is commishes and everyone else do this because we WANT to, don't use the free game like it or leave it schock.

Yep GMs who don't play the game should go. No lines, no trades, no posts, what are you playing for?? Go. I don't think anyone wants to keep people like that no matter how much they would pay to play

But treat the other people that are playing and trying to enhance the experience of the game with as much respect as you think you deserve.