Multiculturalism not working...Part II

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

it just gets tiresome. if you immigrated from china and you really really need to identify yourself as chinese-canadian....fine. but when your grandparents were the ones that immigrated over and both your parents and you were born here: drop the chinese already, you're canadian just like the rest of us!!

Well then why do people always ask me where I'm from, and when I say "Canada", they say "no, i mean where are you really from?"

I would love it if I could describe myself simply as Canadian...a lot of the white majority don't seem to want to accept that as an answer though.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Igottago

I would love it if I could describe myself simply as Canadian...a lot of the white majority don't seem to want to accept that as an answer though.

It's especially funny with Chinese Canadians because many Chinese families have been here almost as long as Canada has been a country.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by HOZ

You have to be very silly to believe he was saying that. Again, you cherry pick the pieces, without really ever trying to comprehend what he said, that allow you to get on your podium and look down on the great unwashed.

Actually you cherry picked that point...were'nt you the one who quoted it in your post? As far as i'm concerned, he compared the perception of race in Mubai to Canada. Why even bring it up as an example if that's not a direct comparison?

And this thread has been ripe with HOZ's inferiority complex from the get go, maybe you can drop it for once and just argue the points?

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Well then why do people always ask me where I'm from, and when I say "Canada", they say "no, i mean where are you really from?"

I would love it if I could describe myself simply as Canadian...a lot of the white majority don't seem to want to accept that as an answer though.

so just tell them you were born in calgary (or whichever city you were actually born in). that'll usually shut them up. and to really drive the point home, ask them where their grandparents immigrated from (assuming they're not native).

to me it seems the opposite. its the asian minorities that care which specific country your origins are from. to the majority of the white majority all them countries are the same - they're all chinese over there anyway. this is not always caused by ignorance but a general apathy to the distinction.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

s
to the majority of the white majority all them countries are the same - they're all chinese over there anyway. this is not always caused by ignorance but a general apathy to the distinction.

I disagree on two points. To most white people, all them countries are not the same, and the belief that they are all the same is always caused by ignorance.

I mean really, you don't think Cambodia and Japan are "all the same", do you?

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

I disagree on two points. To most white people, all them countries are not the same, and the belief that they are all the same is always caused by ignorance.

I mean really, you don't think Cambodia and Japan are "all the same", do you?

i know that there are differences between china and japan and their cultures for example. i meet someone that is of asian decent. do i really care if they came from china or japan or korea or where ever? not really. would a person of japanese decent care more? from my experience, yes - at least more than i do.

another example: my family has their roots in sweden. if someone was to generalize those roots as scandinavian, it won't bother me at all. if someone was to mistake that for say... norweigen roots, i would continue to not care. there are some fairly big differences between sweden and norway but if someone made a mistake between where i come from does that make them ignorant? a jerk? insensitive to my heritage? i'd answer no to all 3 and this generally seems to be the way most of the white majority view the issue but hooo-boy do some of those asians get touchy over this subject.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

i know that there are differences between china and japan and their cultures for example. i meet someone that is of asian decent. do i really care if they came from china or japan or korea or where ever? not really. would a person of japanese decent care more? from my experience, yes - at least more than i do.

Oh okay. Fair enough. From my experience I would have to agree with you.

[Devils'Advocate]

Well, much of that is because of deep political, cultural and in some cases, military differences. I'm not sure when the last Sweden-Norway war was but I can assure that there were no border skirmishes last week.

If I was travelling in Europe I'm not so sure I'd be happy about people assuming I was American.

[Phaneuf3]

the last war sweden was involved in was against norway.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by Igottago

As far as i'm concerned, he compared the perception of race in Mubai to Canada. Why even bring it up as an example if that's not a direct comparison?

Yes he compared their perception to race when it comes to dealing with and doing business one another to the Canadian way.

You on the other hand brought up Hindu caste system and poverty level in India. Which is entirely separate from race or race relations. The Strawman.

If you are going to disagree with someone try and actually argue the points he was ACTUALLY making and not make them up.

[housejunk]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

i know that there are differences between china and japan and their cultures for example. i meet someone that is of asian decent. do i really care if they came from china or japan or korea or where ever? not really. would a person of japanese decent care more? from my experience, yes - at least more than i do.

another example: my family has their roots in sweden. if someone was to generalize those roots as scandinavian, it won't bother me at all. if someone was to mistake that for say... norweigen roots, i would continue to not care. there are some fairly big differences between sweden and norway but if someone made a mistake between where i come from does that make them ignorant? a jerk? insensitive to my heritage? i'd answer no to all 3 and this generally seems to be the way most of the white majority view the issue but hooo-boy do some of those asians get touchy over this subject.

Good grief, your ignorance is absolutely astounding. Mind-boggling, really. How can you be oblivious to the cultural differnces and the deep-seeded history between two ancient civilizations such as China and Japan? The Rape of Nanjing? Japanese occupation of China? Anything? Although you may not care if someone sees you as Swedish, that does not necessarily hold true for "some of these Asians". Do you want another historical analogy? Try telling a Serb or a Croat that they're "all the same" and see where that gets you....then fall back on your "Sweden-Norway" defence. Good lord.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by housejunk

Good grief, your ignorance is absolutely astounding. Mind-boggling, really. How can you be oblivious to the cultural differnces and the deep-seeded history between two ancient civilizations such as China and Japan? The Rape of Nanjing? Japanese occupation of China? Anything? Although you may not care if someone sees you as Swedish, that does not necessarily hold true for "some of these Asians". Do you want another historical analogy? Try telling a Serb or a Croat that they're "all the same" and see where that gets you....then fall back on your "Sweden-Norway" defence. Good lord.

ok - fine - maybe i am completely ignorant and it'll boggle your mind. but 20 year old asian's throwing a hissy fit cause you thought their grandparents came from for the sake of argument china rather than japan is a bit mind-boggling to me and yes i have seen this happen. ok - bad stuff happened in the past. your rape of nanjing example happened nearly 80 years ago. a good 60 years before some of these people were born in a country that neither them nor their parents lived in.

a more recent example. american forces abusing prisoners in iraq and killing civillians in afghanistan. yea, it sucks and i don't exactly agree with all the stuff that's been going down. however, i have absolutely nothing to do with it. if someone mistook me for an american - something that wouldn't be all that outlandish; i.... wouldn't care. good lord.

[housejunk]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

a more recent example. american forces abusing prisoners in iraq and killing civillians in afghanistan. yea, it sucks and i don't exactly agree with all the stuff that's been going down. however, i have absolutely nothing to do with it. if someone mistook me for an american - something that wouldn't be all that outlandish; i.... wouldn't care. good lord.

Man, you just do not get it. With your above "example".....of COURSE you wouldn't care if someone mistook you for an American in the above scenario. The reason? The Americans did nothing against Canadians...their actions were against a third party. Japanese forces slaughtered millions of Chinese people and vice-versa. Blithely comparing the two is a powder keg. True, these incidents happened in the past, but old wounds run deep. Japan has yet to apologize for many of their war crimes, and if someone of Chinese descent is insulted if they are called Japanese, who are you to say that they are being overly sensitive?

I'm not even Asian, I just understand why Asians are insulted when they are mistaken for other races. You may not care if someone mistakes you for -fill in Caucasian/Nordic/Western European background-, but you and I are privleged to be in the majority. There is a histroic prejudice against Asian people, in that they "all look the same". Perpetuating that stereotype is something which I can clearly understand why they would take insult over. How can you not acknowledge that? The Holocaust occurred over 60 years ago, but do you think a Jewish person would be insulted if they were called German? Its not just political correctness. Its a matter of respect and education.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by housejunk

The Holocaust occurred over 60 years ago, but do you think a Jewish person would be insulted if they were called German? Its not just political correctness. Its a matter of respect and education.

if a 15 year old jew (obviously not alive during holocaust times - but even then....) that was born and raised in austria and had a pretty thick accent that sounded very close to german, moved to canada and was mistaken for a german (called german in a completely non-derogatory context), do you think he has the right to flip out and bitch and moan about how ignorant and insensitive you are?

[housejunk]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

if a 15 year old jew (obviously not alive during holocaust times - but even then....) that was born and raised in austria and had a pretty thick accent that sounded very close to german, moved to canada and was mistaken for a german, do you think he has the right to flip out and bitch and moan about how ignorant and insensitive you are?

Quite simply, YES. Everyone has the right to flip out, and bitch and moan in this country. But on a practical non-theorectical level......YES as well. You are in no position to gauge someone's reaction in these circumstances. Although you may not care, a person's culture and background are integral to an indivdiual's make-up. If you truly do not care where someone comes from (as you have stated), then they have every right to bitch and moan about how ignorant and insensitive you are. Instead of trying to find an analogy where ignorance is passable, why not just accept that some people care about where they're from and who they are. I may not care if someone calls me Scottish vs. Irish, but if a fellow Canadian cares about whether their ancestors are from Vietnam or Cambodia, the more power to them.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by TheCommodoreAfro

Nevermind that Canada, contrary to belief, does NOT accept anyone very lightly. In fact, Canadian immigration is far more strict than that of many other countries, including the one where you reside currently. It took my wife a full year of waiting, a couple of thousand dollars and a couple of interviews before she was granted her permanent residence - and she was a routine case married to a Canadian citizen and from Japan (not a second or third world country). No matter where you come from the key is whether or not you can support yourself financially (or someone can vouch and offer to pay for you) - once you've cleared all the hurdles you can make a go of it in Canada.

One you just hilighted our wonderfully illogical system. My friend got his wife's Landed Immigrant status in 3 months. He was told that it was faster to do if you do it in Japan rather than go to Canada to do it.


And you are wrong. Japan's immigration is not less strict than Canada's. Just ask the Million (or so) of Koreans that have been born and raised in Japan yet must carry a Korean passport. Don't forget to change your name completely! (Site is a little wonkie)

Personal Questions

Being white greases the skids but try it if you are Brazilian, Asian or African!!!


It's also a signator on the UN refugee and asylum agreement. Japan in 1998- 2004 (pdf)

Compare to Canada
1998-2004

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by housejunk

Quite simply, YES. Everyone has the right to flip out, and bitch and moan in this country. But on a practical non-theorectical level......YES as well. You are in no position to gauge someone's reaction in these circumstances. Although you may not care, a person's culture and background are integral to an indivdiual's make-up. If you truly do not care where someone comes from (as you have stated), then they have every right to bitch and moan about how ignorant and insensitive you are. Instead of trying to find an analogy where ignorance is passable, why not just accept that some people care about where they're from and who they are. I may not care if someone calls me Scottish vs. Irish, but if a fellow Canadian cares about whether their ancestors are from Vietnam or Cambodia, the more power to them.

ahhhhahahaha you're a joke. there's a difference between caring about where you're anscestor's came from and politely correcting someone if they made an innocent, honest and understandable mistake and taking offence and tearing a strip off someone. i care about my family roots and all that; i don't care if someone makes a minor mistake.

i don't judge people based on where their grandparents grew up and therefore, for the most part, don't really care and i'm the ignorant one... well, if that's the case, i'll take ignorant over racist any day thank you very much.

[housejunk]

If you're truly satisfied in your ignorance, then all I can do is wish you well. At the very least, maybe the next time you meet an Asian person you'll think twice about making assumptions about their race. What's so difficult with asking? Why do you have to know? Continue blundering on my friend.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by housejunk

If you're truly satisfied in your ignorance, then all I can do is wish you well. At the very least, maybe the next time you meet an Asian person you'll think twice about making assumptions about their race. What's so difficult with asking? Why do you have to know? Continue blundering on my friend.

oh i'm quite satisfied. anyone that uptight i probably wouldn't want to be carrying on a conversation with anyway.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by HOZ

One you just hilighted our wonderfully illogical system. My friend got his wife's Landed Immigrant status in 3 months. He was told that it was faster to do if you do it in Japan rather than go to Canada to do it.

It was a year for my wife and of the literally dozen or so expats that I know who have married non-Canadians, a year is/was pretty standard.

They have supposedly streamlined the process for family members but that means non-sponsored immigrants wait longer.

Canada does not have an open door policy despite what you suggest.