If you were allowed to carry a concealed gun, would you?

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Originally Posted by worth

I don't see the introduction of additional guns into homes affecting domestic abuse rates.

it may not affect the rate of abuse but I bet it would affect the scope of the abuse...and I doubt that the cops would be thrilled with increased domestic handgun ownership.

For every bit of 'good' a gun can do, I see two bits of 'bad'...

[tussery]

Since I covered one side of this story I will also add with another story from my city.

CORPUS CHRISTI, Texas October 10, 2006-- A 14-year-old boy shot and killed a man who broke into his family's home Monday and threatened to kill him and his mother, Police Chief Bryan Smith said.

Smith said the man, whose name was not immediately known, confronted a woman as she was carrying groceries into her home shortly before 1 p.m.

The man forced her inside and tied her and her son up. Smith said the woman was able to loosen the binding and free her son, who got his father's revolver from a security box beneath a bed.


As the man tried to break into the room where the two were and threatened to kill them both, the teen fired a shot through the door and hit the intruder in the head, Smith said.

[worth]

That is probably very well the case that there are more likley to be homicides in houses with guns, but how will this increase if concealed weapons are now allowed?

I don't think it would really increase handgun ownership either. Pretty much all the people who want to won a handgun do. All that would change is they would be allowed to wear it on their person in a concealed manner.

I guess the point i'm trying to make is that when it comes down to it, the criminals are the ones who acquire guns illegally and use them to commit crimes, no the people who would go through the trouble of acquiring licenses to carry weapons. I feel as though if a person wants to carry a gun for self defense that should be their choice. Perhaps if criminals had the thought that this person may be armed, they may give the crime a second thought.

[worth]

Here's also a topic that just recently came up on a Vancouver woman who is a school board trustee who would like to carry a concealed weapon:

http://www.canada.com/globaltv/bc/ne...a4fc10&k=30788

[RedHot25]

Some interesting qualitative/public opinion stuff from this report:

http://www.norc.uchicago.edu/online/gunrpt.pdf

Its set in an American context, but interesting nonetheless...

People split evenly on whether guns in the home reduce or increase safety (41% believe safer
vs. 43% less safe). However, when asked about six specific events that might occur if a gun was
kept in the home, people thought that the negative occurrences (accidental shootings, domestic
violence, and worry over gun theft and misuse) were more likely than positive outcomes (less
chance of burglary, greater protection from home invaders, a greater sense of security).
The public is also closely divided on whether more permissive concealed-carry laws enhance
safety (44%) or compromise it (45%). People, however, believe that businesses should be able
to prohibit even permit holders from bringing guns onto their premises and prefer to go to stores
and other establishments that ban guns on their premises over those that allowed guns.

I found this part particularly interesting:

Most Americans do not own a gun for the purpose of protection, 60% do not have a gun in their
home, and 23% have a gun but did not acquire it even partially for protection against crime.
Only 17% have a gun obtained at least in part for protection. Likewise, only 10% of Americans
have carried a handgun away from home in the last year and just 6% have carried a weapon for
the purpose of self-protection.

[OilersBaby]

"Guns don't kill people. People kill people". That's all I gotta say. If you have a gun and kids, lock it up in a safe in your house where the kids dont have access. And don't keep the gun loaded, keep the gun and the bullets/ammunition/whatever the **** it's called seperate.

I was anti gun, until I married a criminal prosecutor from Kentucky so now we have 2 guns in our house. We do not keep em loaded..the guns are in this big safe and the bullets are in another safe....It's all about being responsible.

What's funny though is my husband claims its for self defense, but I wondered how the heck he'd be able to get to them in time and get em loaded if someone broke into our house. I guess that's why he keeps a baseball bat on his side of the bed. Hahaha.

He's had these guns for years and hasn't used em once. i know a lot of people in that situation.

[mykalberta]

I would with the exception I would be too jittery about it ging off while still in my pants, that reason alone would likely prevent me from carrying one. I have a butterfly knife I occasianally carry to clubs if I have a bad feeling or something, never had to bring it out.

MYK

[ericschand]

If you are carrying a gun (concealed or not), you had better be prepared
to use it. No if/and/but, once you find yourself threatened (and I don't
mean in a "gimme your money" way), you must use it. After all, that's why
you have it, isn't it?

And you had better be prepared to kill. Take someone's life and then
live with what you have done for the rest of yours.

As for the fool on the beach that got beat up, first, wtf was he shooting
in the air for (how responsible is that?), and second, why didn't he use it
when threatened physically? Or did he carry it for show?

ers

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by worth

That is probably very well the case that there are more likley to be homicides in houses with guns, but how will this increase if concealed weapons are now allowed?

If there's more homicides in houses with guns, isn't it safe to presume their will be more murders on streets with guns?

I understand the whole "you have to be educated and know how to use it before you are allowed" but that doesn't mean those people still aren't as dumb and crazy and apt to fly off the handle as the rest of us.

Someone asked earlier if anybody reading this has ever been in a situation where a gun would have helped them and the answer appears to be "no". Here's another question: has anyone ever been in a situation where the presence of a gun would have made things a hell of a lot worse? I know I have.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by OilersBaby

"Guns don't kill people. People kill people". That's all I gotta say. If you have a gun and kids, lock it up in a safe in your house where the kids dont have access. And don't keep the gun loaded, keep the gun and the bullets/ammunition/whatever the **** it's called seperate.

I was anti gun, until I married a criminal prosecutor from Kentucky so now we have 2 guns in our house. We do not keep em loaded..the guns are in this big safe and the bullets are in another safe....It's all about being responsible.

What's funny though is my husband claims its for self defense, but I wondered how the heck he'd be able to get to them in time and get em loaded if someone broke into our house. I guess that's why he keeps a baseball bat on his side of the bed. Hahaha.

He's had these guns for years and hasn't used em once. i know a lot of people in that situation.

If the guns and bullets are in separate safes, how are you going to defend yourself from an intruder threatening your lives?

[SeeGeeWhy]

Originally Posted by worth

It doens't. I'm going off on tangents.

Anyway, those who carry are taught to diffuse a situation before it even gets to a situation where you need it. A simple warning to someone coming at you can make them stop. If a criminal thinks you may be armed, you're a lot less likley to be a target.

What if they are trying to steal your weapon for their own use?

[SeeGeeWhy]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

I would with the exception I would be too jittery about it ging off while still in my pants, that reason alone would likely prevent me from carrying one. I have a butterfly knife I occasianally carry to clubs if I have a bad feeling or something, never had to bring it out.

MYK

This (and the gun at the party story above) is the exact sort of thing that I was talking about with my previous statement about people carrying weapons and not being trained to use them.

A weapon being drawn elevates a fight and puts you at more risk of having to use/defend against lethal force. It also makes people much more unpredictable. So, if you are carrying a weapon for self defense, you better be well trained in how to use it... otherwise it is a liability.

I seriously doubt the basic course required for owning a concealed gun is enough to train someone how to defend themselves in a life or death situation.

MYK, are you trained in self defense when armed with a knife? If not, you should not be carrying that thing around, ever.

If you're really worried about going out, my advice would be to not go out, or go somewhere else.

[burnin_vernon]

Originally Posted by GoinAllTheWay

I mean, you could just as easily kill someone with a steak knife as you could with a gun. Yet if you were to put a steak knife down on a kitchen table beside a 9mm of, peoples eyes would be far more drawn to the gun then the steak knife. Why is that?

Well, if it was a "steak gun" it might be less of a shock. People use knives to cut steak. Most of those same people use guns for...? Aside from the small percentage of people who shoot guns for hobby or sport, most probably have never even been near one. I know when I think of a gun, the first association I make is not for range shooting.

[edn88]

Even though there are some good reasons not to allow concealed weapons (see below) I think if we were allowed to carry a concealed weapon in Canada, then I would likely carry one. If all the crazy's out there have a gun, I want one too.

I would do so in as safe a manner possible - decent, well maintained weapon in a good shoulder strap. If I needed to use it, I would use it.

In my house, it would be stored safely and securely. I would educate my child as to the purpose of the weapon (much like my father did with me when I was a child for guns in our farm house).

A very good book to read is Freakonomics by Steven Levitt talks about number of deaths by firearms vs number of deaths in pools (but I believe he also shows that concealed weapons does not cut down on crime).

I think it goes like this - if someone is going to commit a crime, they are going to do it. If you have a gun or not, it won't stop the crime from being committed, having may however, put you into a situation where some one (or some people) are going to get hurt. I think that for many people having a gun, makes them feel more safe, even though in fact it may be less so.

As for crimes of passion being made easier by having a gun in the house, I suppose that is true, but those same people that would use a gun, are also as apt to stab or bludgeon their spouse. And unbalanced folks are going to find a way to harm you if you do something to **** them off (like ram their car into you, or chase you down and beat you up).

Guns and alcohol (or drugs) don't mix though, so guns in clubs kind of freaks me out.

[Flames_Gimp]

I like Glock's. but i wouldnt carry one around.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by worth

Pretty much all the people who want to won a handgun do. All that would change is they would be allowed to wear it on their person in a concealed manner...

In the event that this were to be law, then I would argue that it is a direct infringement on the rights of every citizen who makes the reasonable choice not to conceal a weapon to feel safe. If I do not know who is packing heat, how can I maintain a sense of personal safety when in public? Places in the US where people are permitted to conceal lethal weapons suffer from a self perpetuating, viscious circle of escalating fear, and the need to protect oneself.

Originally Posted by worth

I guess the point i'm trying to make is that when it comes down to it, the criminals are the ones who acquire guns illegally and use them to commit crimes, no the people who would go through the trouble of acquiring licenses to carry weapons. I feel as though if a person wants to carry a gun for self defense that should be their choice. Perhaps if criminals had the thought that this person may be armed, they may give the crime a second thought.

Your point only makes sense if you can in fact prove that a concealed weapon will in fact result in a dramatic reduction of gun murders and handgun crime in this country. I would warrant that GSDs in this country are substantially low, and that there is absolutely no good reason to permit any private citizen, no matter how responsible to conceal a handgun in public. Reciprocally, the very presence of concealed lethal weapons of any kind (and guns are almost certainly the most lethal of any hand weapon) is an infringement of a much more important right to public safety.

[tussery]

Originally Posted by ericschand

As for the fool on the beach that got beat up, first, wtf was he shooting
in the air for (how responsible is that?), and second, why didn't he use it
when threatened physically? Or did he carry it for show?

I dont know if he shot in the air or not, he was also moving from Corpus Christi to Houston that weekend so that is one reason why the pistol was in his truck. Alcohol was involved so he should have never even reached for it. I was just giving this as a point that not everyone who carries a gun is responsible.

[worth]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

In the event that this were to be law, then I would argue that it is a direct infringement on the rights of every citizen who makes the reasonable choice not to conceal a weapon to feel safe. If I do not know who is packing heat, how can I maintain a sense of personal safety when in public? Places in the US where people are permitted to conceal lethal weapons suffer from a self perpetuating, viscious circle of escalating fear, and the need to protect oneself.



Your point only makes sense if you can in fact prove that a concealed weapon will in fact result in a dramatic reduction of gun murders and handgun crime in this country. I would warrant that GSDs in this country are substantially low, and that there is absolutely no good reason to permit any private citizen, no matter how responsible to conceal a handgun in public. Reciprocally, the very presence of concealed lethal weapons of any kind (and guns are almost certainly the most lethal of any hand weapon) is an infringement of a much more important right to public safety.

1) How does interating with someone who conceals affect your safety?
2) I disagree.

[RedHot25]

Originally Posted by worth

1) How does interating with someone who conceals affect your safety?
2) I disagree.

1. What do you mean by the word "interating"?
And whether or not you agree with it, I think he has provided some reasons
as to why some people may feel someone with a conceal gun is affecting
their safety.

2. Ok....any particular reason why?

[GoinAllTheWay]

Originally Posted by edn88

Even though there are some good reasons not to allow concealed weapons (see below) I think if we were allowed to carry a concealed weapon in Canada, then I would likely carry one. If all the crazy's out there have a gun, I want one too.

And the private arms race begins....